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I'm currently at work looking at Wahapedia, brainstorming new conversion ideas.

I just noticed that Deathwatch Scouts are a thing. Knowing the background of the deathwatch, isn't this a little Unfluffy? I thought a recruit, outside of a Blackshield, were supposed to be at least Tactical Squad or higher. I mean, Space wolves have their Scouts made up of Veterans, so I guess a Space Wolf inducted into the Deathwatch could be in Scout armor, but whole squads are another thing all together.

They were a thing in the Deathwatch RPG but weren't made an option in the army proper.

I’m not up on modern Astartes stuff, but are Scouts still trainees, or Heresy Style full Brothers?

Scouts are still the training stage, except for many Scout Sergeants who essentially don't become full Astartes to help train each successive generation.

There is nothing preventing full brothers, or brother-veterans from donning scout carapace armor. When the tactical need requires it. This is normally for sarges assigned to train scouts, but could be any situation.

That said, it’s not often done by normal squads for a bunch of reasons like honor, tradition, and the fact the power armor suits the role of a space marine so much better.

In the primaris era, you would be more likely to see a vet squad in phobos armor. But if you are going old school, carapace could happen. Just very, very unlikely.

 Nevelon wrote:
There is nothing preventing full brothers, or brother-veterans from donning scout carapace armor. When the tactical need requires it. This is normally for sarges assigned to train scouts, but could be any situation.

That said, it’s not often done by normal squads for a bunch of reasons like honor, tradition, and the fact the power armor suits the role of a space marine so much better.

In the primaris era, you would be more likely to see a vet squad in phobos armor. But if you are going old school, carapace could happen. Just very, very unlikely.

Good point. Thanks for the help.

Re. Deathwatch Scouts- there is also Cyrus, a veteran Scout Sergeant of the Blood Ravens who previously served with the Deathwatch.

 Gert wrote:
Scouts are still the training stage, except for many Scout Sergeants who essentially don't become full Astartes to help train each successive generation.

I've never seen anything to suggest that Scout Sergeants are not full Space Marines who could don power armour if they wished. I think they have the full set of implants etc. A veteran Scout Sergeant technically has Terminator honours.

I also vaguely recall some veterans become Scout Sergeants later in their career.

Maybe it's an inaccurate assumption on my part but I've found that they're portrayed as closer to their charges than full Astartes.
I guess that's just a problem of the models never being particularly accurate and novels not being consistent.

 Gert wrote:
Maybe it's an inaccurate assumption on my part but I've found that they're portrayed as closer to their charges than full Astartes.
I guess that's just a problem of the models never being particularly accurate and novels not being consistent.

There probably is quite a lot of inconsistency, as well as variation between Chapters.

Given it is about Firstborn, I figured Insignium Astartes is a useful source. It has the following to say about Scouts:

Now, this conflicts with other sources (like the 4th edition Space Marine codex and Index Astartes) in which Scouts are often awaiting the final implant or so of the process and only receive the black carapace when they have earned their power armour. I think it is interesting to note that Space Wolves are not the only Chapter to have experienced Scout companies- I wouldn't be surprised if Chapters like the Raptors also have more experienced Battle Brothers in their Scout formations.

On sergeants specifically:

So doesn't really clarify, but sometimes the veteran sergeants jump straight to the 1st company.

Index Astartes states the following:


So I think at least some Scout sergeants are full Marines who have chosen to forego power armour. Certainly there is enough wiggle room in the above to accommodate veteran scouts rotating through the Deathwatch from various Chapters, in the manner of Cyrus.

I can also see the Deathwatch tapping some scouts that are reaching completion of their scout training to do specific tasks. They may be the only resources available, or they may just be more expendable than more experienced brothers.

From memory, the original scout models (the ones with the puffy sleeves) came with a sergeant in full power armour (maybe without the backpack though). The move to all squad members being in scout armour came at the next iteration.

Outside of some Deathwatch marines using carapace instead of power armor because "insert reasons here" I don't think it would happen.

If and when the Deathwatch is asking for a chapter's Deathwatch obligations, they are not going to send the newbies fresh out of basic training. That would be risking the chapter's future and potential shame due to poor performance. No, you send someone who is at least bloodied and is competent.

Remember that when marines do go to the Deathwatch it is usually by themselves. It would be highly unusual for a Marine to meet another member of his chapter in the Deathwatch at the same time unless he comes from one with particularly close ties to the Deathwatch.

Space Wolves have Scouts that are legit battle brothers. They also have Scouts that are rookies. I can see the Deathwatch grabbing a squad or two of them for reconnaissance missions.

I know in DoW 2 they said Scout Sgt. Cyrus was part of the Deathwatch. Granted, he's a full space marine and teaching recruits- Buuut I'd think the DW in need of ultra- sneaky gitz would use full trans-human Marines. Space Wolf: Wolf Scouts are from Grey Hunters, so they're older and Wiki sez they occasionally serve in DW as they start to go more "lone wolf".

The Deathwatch also have a lot of tech to use that enhance stealth for their power armor, so downgrading to scout armor is unnecessary anyway. Suspensors, suppressors, special ammo types, upgrades for power armor that make it sneaky.

I seem to recall a short story in an omnibus where a strike team was infiltrating a space hulk with the goal of killing and recovering the corpse of a weird boy. They basically accomplish the mission with minimal combat. They sneak through the passages, silently taking out orks as they went till they got to the weird boy and had a small boss fight. It was basically a 40k version of the mission "All Ghillied Up" from COD. Then they return with the ork's head and turn it over to the Mechanicus who are doing experiments with ork psykers.

Aside from whether it's fluffy or not, you'd have to be mad to be adding anything but basic Primaris models to Deathwatch at the moment, since their next big upheaval is just around the corner.
Access to Scouts is almost certainly going to go the way of standard Dreadnoughts...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Aside from whether it's fluffy or not, you'd have to be mad to be adding anything but basic Primaris models to Deathwatch at the moment, since their next big upheaval is just around the corner.
Access to Scouts is almost certainly going to go the way of standard Dreadnoughts...

Access to the new 10th Edition Scouts kits?

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Aside from whether it's fluffy or not, you'd have to be mad to be adding anything but basic Primaris models to Deathwatch at the moment, since their next big upheaval is just around the corner.
Access to Scouts is almost certainly going to go the way of standard Dreadnoughts...

Access to the new 10th Edition Scouts kits?

for DW in particular, since the rumor is that they're going to end up as part of the Imperial Agents codex (and presumably have their options paired down significantly from "every normal space marine unit" to "some kill teams" or something like that