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Hello all!

I`m getting back into 40k after a period of absence, as so many people do, when I came across a troubling piece of information. GW is essentially removing "old" kits from tournament play. I saw this with the stormcast eternals and then became very afraid as I play 40k orks and all of my boyz are the old kit. In fact, I refuse to buy the new kit as I don`t like the looks and I don`t like monopose kits. If they do (Or more likely when they do) say that you can`t use old boyz kits in tournaments anymore what exactly does that mean?

Does it mean tournaments at Warhammer World or any of the GW sponsored tournaments? Does it mean that tournaments not sponsored by GW will allow the models I`ve painted over the last years? How far down the tournament scale does the banning go? I don`t think that anyone at my local game store would say no to playing with me with the old models but I`d hate to think that my 60+ ork boyz would some day in the future just cease to be allowed to WAAAAUGH! across the table just because GW wants me to but the new substandard kits.

Has there been any discussion on this topic for those who play Stormcast Eternals? I took a look around but I couldn`t see anything.

Many thanks to you all,

Holyflak

I'd say it's unlikely that your Boyz will be removed from the game - they're obviously still Boyz even if not made from the monopose kit. And GW are unlikely to remove Boyz from 40K completely (though they remove basic Orc boyz from Age of Sigmar).

The Stormcast models removed are not the same thing "in game" as the later kits, they had different in game rules and options. Whereas your Boyz are the same thing as the current Boyz. As to what is happening at tournaments, someone else will have to address that!

It's not the kits as such, it's the units. Those units have been removed from the SE army. It would be the equivalent of GW deciding that, say, Lootas are no longer a thing and removing them from the Ork codex.

Unless it's specifically a tournament for an old edition (don't play tournaments, don't know if that's a thing!), I would anticipate basically everyone will be using the current army lists so they would not be playable anywhere.

Your Boyz will be fine. There are still Boyz, and there is not any issue as far as I am aware with using the old models.

Your boyz are still sold by GW(if we're talking about the 3rd edition ones'), they never went out of production (probably even GW realized their new kit is a downgrade from the old one).
The only thing some tournaments say on the matter is to use current base sizes. So your boyz are probably on 25mm bases while GW upsized bases to 32mm for many units. There are base extenders for that if you want to change.

Thanks for the answers!

My brain (and wallet) recoiled at the thought of losing hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of minis on a GW whim.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Your boyz are still sold by GW(if we're talking about the 3rd edition ones'), they never went out of production (probably even GW realized their new kit is a downgrade from the old one).
The only thing some tournaments say on the matter is to use current base sizes. So your boyz are probably on 25mm bases while GW upsized bases to 32mm for many units. There are base extenders for that if you want to change.

idk what y’all are talking about, aside from the fact it has only one way to build the unit, the sculpts are significantly better than the old kit. I’m just hoping they make a normal version of the new kit. The boss nob looks sooo much better than the old boss nob.

johnpjones1775 wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Your boyz are still sold by GW(if we're talking about the 3rd edition ones'), they never went out of production (probably even GW realized their new kit is a downgrade from the old one).
The only thing some tournaments say on the matter is to use current base sizes. So your boyz are probably on 25mm bases while GW upsized bases to 32mm for many units. There are base extenders for that if you want to change.

idk what y’all are talking about, aside from the fact it has only one way to build the unit, the sculpts are significantly better than the old kit. I’m just hoping they make a normal version of the new kit. The boss nob looks sooo much better than the old boss nob.

The “one way only” is exactly their issue with it.

 JNAProductions wrote:

johnpjones1775 wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Your boyz are still sold by GW(if we're talking about the 3rd edition ones'), they never went out of production (probably even GW realized their new kit is a downgrade from the old one).
The only thing some tournaments say on the matter is to use current base sizes. So your boyz are probably on 25mm bases while GW upsized bases to 32mm for many units. There are base extenders for that if you want to change.

idk what y’all are talking about, aside from the fact it has only one way to build the unit, the sculpts are significantly better than the old kit. I’m just hoping they make a normal version of the new kit. The boss nob looks sooo much better than the old boss nob.

The “one way only” is exactly their issue with it.

Technically there’s two ways. Boss can be built with a big choppa or klaw lol.

But the other person said he doesn’t like the way they look lol.
Also I wouldn’t be surprised if a new kit with basically the same sculpts comes out that allows you choose between full melee and full dakka.

When you can have up to 120 Boys in your army, it’s important to have more than one way to build them. You don’t want a dozen duplicates.

 JNAProductions wrote:
When you can have up to 120 Boys in your army, it’s important to have more than one way to build them. You don’t want a dozen duplicates.

You’re pretty much guaranteed to have several duplicates at that point.

But who cares if it’s a dozen or half a dozen duplicates?

You’re only guaranteed to have duplicates of the kit is monoposed.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You’re only guaranteed to have duplicates of the kit is monoposed.

are you really knitpicking whether the left hand has a glove on or not?
Is that what you’re trying to knitpick as not being a duplicate? Something you won’t even really be able to see on the tabletop let alone in a squad of 10-20 boyz?

The poses in the new Ork Boys kit aren’t very conducive to duplicates not being noticed.
They’re not Wulfen bad… but they’re not great for it.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The poses in the new Ork Boys kit aren’t very conducive to duplicates not being noticed.
They’re not Wulfen bad… but they’re not great for it.

Just starting my orks, but when you have 120 models on the table in large groups together you won’t even notice, just like the old Cadians. There were only a handful of poses and once they’re all painted up, and put into squads, you don’t really notice that there’s only 3-5 total poses in the whole squad.

You will notice the dynamic poses where the ork is in the middle of some action like running. The stick out like sore thumbs if you have multiple of them on the board, especially if they are close to each other.

Models just shooting a gun or in a "resting" pose just blend in with the masses, especially if you vary your paintjob a bit or do some headswaps.

Personally, if I were going to be starting Orks, I would exclusively use the older kit.

Personally I've used the old kit, Savage orks, New kit and a lot of 3rd Party producers. Now you can also throw in Old World Orcs that are completely compatible with the old kit. Nice thing about the old kit is you also find lots of alternative torsos and heads for it and can make a unique Horde while with the new kit you'll have a bunch of clone troopers. They're plastic so converting them isn't that hard as well but you basically have to build the whole Ork and then cut it apart afterwards.
Basically the only downside of the old boyz is the Gorilla asses, they should have just solved that instead of the downgrade they made. The new Kommandoz suffer from monoposes partly as well, but at least you have alternative Heads and weapons for most models as well as a lot of gubbins, so that shows what would have been possible even with GWs current design space.

I would never get more than one or two of the new kit. The old kit is a better kit and (IMO) holds up aesthetically. A lot of the newer Ork sculpts have oddly small heads and are losing that distinctly 40k vibe to Orks.

I don't want Warcraft Orks or even green Tolkein Orks, I want 40k Orks. Some of the modern kits look like they'd lose a face-eating contest every time! Jaws are too small.

Yeah, the small head size is honestly what throws me off the most. Even some of the better newer models like the Ghazghkull model has shockingly small heads compared to the Nob kit and older boyz kit that makes mixing and matching look weird depending on the pose and body.

Chop off hands to swap them around.
Add stikkbomz or something to make the models more unique.
Greenstuff metal plates onto faces and heads.
There's loads to do to make a mob look more of a mob.

Mod edit - bot post removed.

Next ork drop who is expecting more beast snaggas, vs a refresh for regular orks?

I feel like Beast Snaggas won't be expanded upon for a bit, there are some low hanging fruit for GW to do now that the Ork range is pretty much all plastic.

GW's love of doing single HQ releases with a new codex means they can now for future Ork updates do:

- Plastic Badrukk with Flash Gitz/Boss Zagstruk with Stormboyz/Grotsnik with Nobz in a dual-faction release box. Or they could be released in a similar manner to Imotekh and Orikan's refresh was for Necrons.

- Tankbustas are still yet to receive a plastic refresh, could be a kill team release similar to what happened with Kommandos

I feel like GW could also explore more Nob leader variants, like re-introducing the Nob with WAAAGH! Banner in plastic or having a "Big Boss" sub level to Warbosses that gives different buffs to them in shooting or combat.

The problem with tankbustas as a kill team is they are always bringing rockets to an infantry fight. Everyone has an antitank weapon and its a bit limited.

The 3rd edition unit would kind of work better than the 4th onwards unit.

 Haighus wrote:
The problem with tankbustas as a kill team is they are always bringing rockets to an infantry fight. Everyone has an antitank weapon and its a bit limited.

The 3rd edition unit would kind of work better than the 4th onwards unit.

GW could quite easily become creative with them. Throw in another CC weapon that doesn't blow up like the hammer, put in a beast snagga monsterbusta with a harpoon - you don't have to give rokkits to everyone. Sneaky mine layer that's also a stikkbomma against infantry. Stuff like that. Kommandos received a whole load of weapons with their update as well.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
The problem with tankbustas as a kill team is they are always bringing rockets to an infantry fight. Everyone has an antitank weapon and its a bit limited.

The 3rd edition unit would kind of work better than the 4th onwards unit.

GW could quite easily become creative with them. Throw in another CC weapon that doesn't blow up like the hammer, put in a beast snagga monsterbusta with a harpoon - you don't have to give rokkits to everyone. Sneaky mine layer that's also a stikkbomma against infantry. Stuff like that. Kommandos received a whole load of weapons with their update as well.

It still focuses on anti-big thing weapons though, to an infantry fight. Just doesn't seem like the right place for them. Flash gitz or nobz would be better IMO.

 Haighus wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
The problem with tankbustas as a kill team is they are always bringing rockets to an infantry fight. Everyone has an antitank weapon and its a bit limited.

The 3rd edition unit would kind of work better than the 4th onwards unit.

GW could quite easily become creative with them. Throw in another CC weapon that doesn't blow up like the hammer, put in a beast snagga monsterbusta with a harpoon - you don't have to give rokkits to everyone. Sneaky mine layer that's also a stikkbomma against infantry. Stuff like that. Kommandos received a whole load of weapons with their update as well.

It still focuses on anti-big thing weapons though, to an infantry fight. Just doesn't seem like the right place for them. Flash gitz or nobz would be better IMO.

Flash Gitz and Nobz are still great kits though. But I wouldn't mind an upgrade sprue for them.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
The problem with tankbustas as a kill team is they are always bringing rockets to an infantry fight. Everyone has an antitank weapon and its a bit limited.

The 3rd edition unit would kind of work better than the 4th onwards unit.

GW could quite easily become creative with them. Throw in another CC weapon that doesn't blow up like the hammer, put in a beast snagga monsterbusta with a harpoon - you don't have to give rokkits to everyone. Sneaky mine layer that's also a stikkbomma against infantry. Stuff like that. Kommandos received a whole load of weapons with their update as well.

It still focuses on anti-big thing weapons though, to an infantry fight. Just doesn't seem like the right place for them. Flash gitz or nobz would be better IMO.

Flash Gitz and Nobz are still great kits though. But I wouldn't mind an upgrade sprue for them.

Oh yeah, I'm not looking at it from the view of which kits need replacing, but from what fits Kill Team thematically. But an upgrade sprue could be nice.