Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How do.

So out of recent unpleasantness comes a strong chance of lifelong financial stability. Once Dad’s estate is all done and dusted, I’m far more likely than not to find myself able to buy a home outright, and still have a reasonable nest egg left over.

I’ve started window shopping on Right Move to see what might be available within my budget, and not having lived in this town terribly long, have been relying on Genuinely Reliable Friends as to which areas to avoid - cheap often being cheap for established reasons. Like smackheads and other assorted wrong’uns you’d rather not live next door to.

And of course I’ll be using a solicitor and following the standard process to ensure all is done properly, legally and above board.

But what I’m entirely in the dark on is the process of making an offer. Whilst it most likely won’t be on the market once I’m in a financial position to make offers, one that’s caught my eye is now £255,000.00 as a reduced asking price (down from £270,000.00).

In your experience as a buyer and/or seller, do you offer over, or under? Money Saving Expert says I can ask the seller’s agent how many offers have been made etc, but said nowt about whether to offer the asking price.

Now in terms of extra spangly brass knobs, I know I’ll be somewhat desirable as a bidder, as I’m not only chain free myself (I rent), but will be a cash buyer, which removes a number of hurdles, such as a mortgage offer being withdrawn, my buyer dropping out leaving me in the lurch and the chain collapsing etc. But does that let me offer under the asking price?

Not sure what the market is like at the moment, and it depends on the individual sellers circumstances - but yeah you can absolutely offer under the asking price. They can always say no. If it's on for 255k you could maybe try a cheeky 220-230 but realistically you might find it goes for more like 245. If they've only just dropped the asking price they may not be prepared to go lower just yet - but maybe they just want to get it sold now...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It often ends up as something of a negotiation - you don't just make a single offer that is either accepted or you get told to sod off...

On the flip side, it can get very competitive for the right property. When we bought our current place about 10ish years ago, we had one purchase fall through. Smallish house on a very large plot in a very desirable area - they had one open weekend when it first went on the market, and that apparently generated 15 offers. We were one of the 3 bidders invited to go forward to make best and final offers. Ours was the one they accepted at, if I remember rightly, 90k over the asking price at 560k. Then we had the survey done and found out it had ongoing subsidence and noped out...

Something to consider here is stamp duty.

The threshold is £250k, so a seller putting £255k as the asking price is probably looking for £250k knowing buyers will be wanting to avoid stamp duty.

Being a first time homeowner, I’d be exempt from Stamp Duty (up to the first £300,000 of a £500,000 purchase).

So maybe that is another string to my “chain free, cash buyer” bow?

It’s a black art basically. Just be prepared for it all to fall through at a moments notice. You are in an excellent position not being in a chain though. Our last move was hit by Covid. We had packed the house up and got the removals guys sorted, then a week before the move lockdown hit. There was no point unpacking most of the stuff so we lived around boxes for 4 months, and then when it all opened up again the munchkins buying our place had screwed up some of their paperwork, so another 4 week delay. Thankfully everyone in the chain was sufficiently eager to let it go and wait. The delays also meant they we couldn’t get the removals guys in on the day, so they turned up a few days early and took everything away. We didn’t find out until mid-day on the moving day whether or not we were going to move into a new place or if our furniture had basically gone on a little holiday just to be delivered back to the old house.

Total nightmare. Oh and in England there is the wonder of gazumping, so even if your offer is accepted, the vendor could just decide to self to someone else whenever they like.

On topic, you’ll probably need to go through a few offer experiences before it sticks. Also don’t take to long over viewings and defining about an offer. We got our place basically because we were the first through the door, and my wife made an instant note of interest. I didn’t even see the place until we moved in!

Yeah, it’s classic negotiation, which means you have to do lots of un-British things like exaggerating and being selfish. But yes, offer as low as you like, they can only say “no”. It’s actually better to go in with an almost insultingly low offer, as it psychologically conditions the seller to assume you’ll drive a hard bargain and then be happy to settle when you make a more reasonable offer. Be prepared to go around the loop a few times.

Things to look out for: covenants, property management arrangements, etc. if the property has shared facilities, such as a car park, or even the street in front if it’s not been adopted by the council.

Also, property lawyers are generally useless. Every single person I know has had the same experience, endlessly chasing them to do the basic things that you’re paying them to do. Watch them like a hawk and don’t assume they’ve done anything.

It all seems to be covered. You can always pull out of the deal if you get cold feet, although the later you leave it the more douchey it is.

Watch out for vacant plots next door (is an ugly block of flats going to be built there?), don't buy leasehold, what's the council tax band like? What else is nearby? Schools or pubs just down the road appeal to some people, but will you be picking litter out of your front garden/drive every morning?

Jadenim wrote:Also, property lawyers are generally useless. Every single person I know has had the same experience, endlessly chasing them to do the basic things that you’re paying them to do. Watch them like a hawk and don’t assume they’ve done anything.

Ever been in the room when an ombudsman is chasing their conveyancing solicitor?

I have. It was hilarious. And I’ve got some of that flex in my pocket should I need it.

Home Buyers Survey Report and Solicitors should do most of the covenant and “is there a limit on the land” type thing.

The one I’m eyeing up at this early stage does back on to a bus station, which could be a downside. Or…an upside. As if that’s shut down there’s a chance I can extend my land rearward.

I lived 3 storeys up overlooking a busy bus station for a few years. This may be stating the obvious, but they are noisy and they smell. The double glazing caught most of the noise, but not all of it, and in the summer it made opening the windows unpleasant.

I put up with it as I knew I was only there temporarily. If they shut the bus station down, then there is virtually zero chance that the land would then be offered to local residents. It would be packaged up to developers.

I may drive round there at fairly random times during the day, park up and wander near the bus station.

It’s mostly open air, so noise wouldn’t be echoing as if it were covered.

Hmm

Very good points so far. The most important one being the location you’re buying in. Some locations won’t even entertain offers below the asking price, some expect a 10% or more reduction on the asking price.

Being chainless and a cash buyer make you a very attractive buyer. Some sellers will value this more than others though. Also the fact that you’re not paying Stamp Duty is not relevant to the seller, it’s your cost not theirs.

I think you are planning to get a survey, even though a cash buyer doesn’t need one. It’s definitely a good idea to get one. Since you’re paying hundreds of thousands of pounds for a property it’s worth knowing whether you’re paying a lot of money for future problems.

Sorry for your loss as well.

In England, most if not all (I think it may be law now?) mortgage providers will require a surveyors report, to ensure there’s no hidden wonk about the building they’re securing a significant sum of money on, which upon discovery could drastically devalue the property, leaving the buyer and lender with the sticky issue of negative equity.

Of course, as a cash buyer I won’t have that level of oversight - but I absolutely will be getting one done.

There’s little to stop me snooping around, and I know some of the signs of damp and electrical/plumbing bodge jobs. But I don’t kid myself for a second I know even a fraction of the sort of stuff a surveyor has forgotten, let alone knows.

The house I keep mentioning has an attic. And as my ex has a near identical house I know that to be a pretty substantial area. But…..there are no pics of it. Now that’s not terribly unusual like. At least sticking my head through the hatch and ideally having a wee crawl around would be on the cards. That can reveal a whole host of possible problems,

Likewise it *may* have a basement. My ex’s place has a fairly shallow one, but storage is storage. And it’s a handy way to get some idea of what sort of state the foundations might be in. If I pop down there and I need wellies? No offer for you!

If you can take a light step ladder with you to the viewing you can have a peek in the attic - but the surveyor should to that too.

Basements can be damp, watchout on storing paper or card elements of your games collection. Want to buy my classic Heroquest boardgame and all the expansions? I wouldn't recommend it - the board has been destroyed by mold.

Also, from an experience in earlier life? Check for previous fire damage! I didn’t start it, but house fires suck. And you’d be surprised at what damage can be repaired - as well as the sort of bodge jobs it can lead to.

Mwhahahahahaha. My own little hell. If you are ever in London I can show you round mine and what I learnt buying it, or if you drop me a PM happy to sort out a call/facetime/whatsapp to go over my experience and the many many things I wish I had known...

As far as bidding's concerned, yeah it's location, location, location.
We're in the process of buying a house in Portugal - we're emigrating.
There, we agreed on a final price well below the seller's asking price (and got a good deal on a ridiculously big house).

But when selling our house in the Netherlands, we're putting it up for about 10% less than we're expecting to get; overbidding is pretty much the rule there.

get a full (structural/level 3) survey even though its going to cost more

while you might think the homebuyer/level2 survey should be good enough it's only 'a visual inspection of areas that are reasonably accessible.' so may well not catch the massive crack in the wall with the full wardrobe put in front of it or the aging roof that needs replacing that's been bodged with new tiles over old timbers

as to over or underbidding, it really depends on where you are, some places you'll be expected to pay (significantly) over the list price, and others you should be paying significantly under. It used to be you'd have to rely on the estate agent (or solicitor) to know that, but now the various online sites that tell you what properties in the area most recently sold for should help, especially if you can find the original adverts for what the places were originally listed at

and yes almost everybody you have to deal with will seem to be fairly useless and unbelievably slow

I'd also suggest visiting the area at night to see if it's a kerb crawling hotspot, or on the route home for drunks leaving the local pub, it's amazing how different an apparently peaceful area can be

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
get a full (structural/level 3) survey even though its going to cost more

Definitely this. The survey that was done on my old flat for the home report wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. They got the style of boiler wrong despite me watching them check it and the age of the building was out by 40 years. That came as a surprise to my neighbours who'd been there since before my surveyors said it had been built. My comments on the draft report were basically "give me a refund since my corrections amount to doing the entire thing myself".

Of the three solicitors I've dealt with when buying and selling, 2 were useless. The 3rd was an old guy about to retire who actually answered questions and prepared for meetings. I suspect his type are literally a dying breed. The other 2 were too up themselves to engage with the people paying them and not nearly as intelligent as they believed themselves to be while also being as lazy as your average teenager. If you can find a good one you'll be lucky, but don't be afraid to push back if you don't think they're providing good service. Remember, you're paying them - they work for you. At the very least they should have knowledge of the local areas and pricing to help you making an offer and suggesting decent properties in your price range.

The offer system is annoying, but if you're paying cash you're in a much better position than most because you have good flexibility in your price range. We ended up buying a new build because it was fixed price and by far the best value at the time in our area and we could wait the 6 months for the house to be ready. Don't get too attached to properties. It's a good idea to visit the area at different times of the day just to check it's not got crowds of screaming schoolkids twice a day, or it's in the middle of some sort of gang war every evening (or other, less severe problems).

If there’s something Dad taught me, it’s Don’t Skimp On Important Things. And one of those checks is most definitely an Important Thing.

I mean, the house is almost certainly, barring a Lottery Win, going to be the most expensive thing I’ll ever buy in my life. And it a house I want to buy. Not a long list of things that need fixing.

Well. Not if I can’t use that to negotiate a better purchase price, depending on exactly what’s on the wonk and needs addressing.

One of my friends bought a house that had clearly been owned by an electrician. the wiring was basically made up of random bits and pieces of offcuts

 Flinty wrote:
One of my friends bought a house that had clearly been owned by an electrician. the wiring was basically made up of random bits and pieces of offcuts

This one???

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/03/house-worth-1350000-enough-plug-sockets-everyone-street-11033568/

That… is a lot of sockets…

I think I preferred the Borg’s classic alcove and ship design.

Beige is so…..Federation

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If there’s something Dad taught me, it’s Don’t Skimp On Important Things. And one of those checks is most definitely an Important Thing.

The reports I got (fire, building, electrical, gas/boiler) were a) expensive and b) mostly rubbish. I have no idea how you get someone to do a credible report. My ex for her flat paid £1500 and received a report that looked like it had been written by a chat bot and was full of comments that they couldn't access roof, walls etc to check them, so nothing written in this section.

Removed

.

Me again, with mild threadomancy.

With an offer on Dad’s place my brother and I are amenable to, things may be about to start moving rapidly.

Which means I now need to weigh up the pros and cons of buying a fixer upper.

The difficulty there is I’ve absolutely no clue how much certain common remedial works might cost, and how reliable related quotes might be.

Let say, Damp Coursing. There are a few decently sized homes near me at a decent price, because among the modernisation needed, you can clearly see evidence of rising damp.

Whether the asking price is a bargain kinda depends on whether getting that properly, professionally fixed might be £5k, or £15k and that (numbers right out my anus, because that’s just how clueless I am here).

Literally any and all thinks, comments and hopefully experienced advice welcome. Qualified Advice too, though naturally I won’t hold you to owt if not accurate, because I’m not your client.

Do Not Buy A Fixer Upper As Your First Home

I'm just over a year into having bought my first place and the constant fixes and putting out (metaphorical) fires is miserable and exhausting

Find a place you like and pay for the most extensive survey you can get on it. Do multiple viewings (and take notes!), anything that seems off, take pictures and have your solicitors raise the concerns with the seller.

Also make sure you talk to neighbours about the area, maybe consider getting an Airbnb nearby so you can see for yourself what it's like.

Oh I have better than neighbours! I have friends who know *everyone* in town. They’re keeping me right on where’s hot, where’s tepid, and where’s toilet.

But, your welcome advice? What exactly are the challenges you’re facing? Enquiring minds need to know!

My advice, skip the survey, it's a waste of money.

I've had two purchases fall through now, buying level 2 surveyors for both. Both times the report was just covered in "the walls were papered so we didn't look... the floors were carpeted so we didn't look... the roof looks fine from across the street..." nothing of any use.
When my mum sold the family house, the buyers bought a full top level structural survey - same thing. Didnt even bother lifting the loose rugs to inspect the floorboards beneath.

Just book a longer viewing yourself and go around with a finetooth comb, you'll probably take a closer look than the guy you pay £1000 to.


What I would recommend is to view tonnes of homes, even ones you're not that bothered about. Just to get some experience in viewings and asking the agent. Even make offers - you can always withdraw it if they accept. This gives you practice and experience that means once you find a house you really care about - you'll approach it in the best way.