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Starting Imperial Fists, and just collecting some units to build a list. Mostly painting for now and will probably start playing after the new year. I have a rulebook, but only briefly borrowed the Liber. I've been looking at a variety of lists online to get ideas to build a collection of units to pick from for when I start playing. I have some questions that I'm hoping to get some help with.

1 - Is there a reason that Recon/Scout squads don't seem to make much of an appearance. BS5 Nemesis Bolters seems pretty decent for not seeing a unit of them. Is it just the state of the game or is it that there are better options?

2 - Iliastus Assault Cannons. The Liber has them listed as an 'Auto' weapon, but I've seen far too many comments saying they don't get the bonus to hit. Am I reading the Rule wrong or did I miss a clarification? The negative only seems to take effect when used as a reaction, but hitting on 2's appears to be useful. I like the idea of doing a 'Baal' Imp. Fist Predator. Not necessarily practical and I probably won't use it much, but for the coolness of it.

3 - Warders/Breachers. Not ever really seeing a mix of these on IF lists. I plan on getting some Warders, but also like the look of the Breacher shields as well. Just don't see the point in getting both if I won't use them together. ie. I'd just use the Warders as breachers in smaller games, etc.

Any other units/bonuses I should look at?

Thanks

Welcome to Heresy.

 Akar wrote:
1 - Is there a reason that Recon/Scout squads don't seem to make much of an appearance. BS5 Nemesis Bolters seems pretty decent for not seeing a unit of them. Is it just the state of the game or is it that there are better options?

Recon squads have their niche among certain Legions/RoWs, but I think you don't seem that often because they don't necessarily bring anything that a tactical squad can't do. I mean ok, no scout or infiltrate on a tac squad, but eh... so what? Again, they fill a niche for certain things, but I think they're not seen just because they're not a great pick.
Scout squads were a shoe-horned in addition for 2.0, the "role" of scouts was previously filled by the recon squad, so now you've got what essentially is the same unit twice and neither of them are particularly good.

Also in regards to the BS5, I think you might also be confusing Recon/Scouts with Seeker squads. Seekers are the real reason why you don't see either of the other squads more often. Because you'll likely be taking them for the Nemesis Bolters, there's really no reason to take either unit instead of a unit of Seekers, who, while more expensive, come with BS5 and Precision Shots. They just outclass Recon/Scouts in the shooting game.

2 - Iliastus Assault Cannons. The Liber has them listed as an 'Auto' weapon, but I've seen far too many comments saying they don't get the bonus to hit. Am I reading the Rule wrong or did I miss a clarification? The negative only seems to take effect when used as a reaction, but hitting on 2's appears to be useful. I like the idea of doing a 'Baal' Imp. Fist Predator. Not necessarily practical and I probably won't use it much, but for the coolness of it.

It definitely should benefit from the 1+ to hit. It explicitly says "Auto Weapon" on it's profile.
Unless they FAQ'd it at some point and I missed it last time I looked. Was there any reason given as to why they shouldn't benefit?
Yes Malfunction only applies to reactions. Given how many shots they fire off, you'll likely get the odd Get's Hot, but you get your armour save, so it shouldn't be too painful. Chuck an Apothecary on the squad if you're really worried about it.
"Baal" Predator is definitely the right choice. Rule of Cool in all things.

3 - Warders/Breachers. Not ever really seeing a mix of these on IF lists. I plan on getting some Warders, but also like the look of the Breacher shields as well. Just don't see the point in getting both if I won't use them together. ie. I'd just use the Warders as breachers in smaller games, etc.

The reason you never see Breachers in the Fist list is that there's never a reason to take them instead of Warders. Warders are just soooooooooooooooooooo much better. Better Ld, Power Axes, Lock Step, Shield Wall. And for some absolutely insane reason, they're Fast Attack instead of Troops.

 Snrub wrote:
Recon squads have their niche among certain Legions/RoWs, but I think you don't seem that often because they don't necessarily bring anything that a tactical squad can't do. I mean ok, no scout or infiltrate on a tac squad, but eh... so what? Again, they fill a niche for certain things, but I think they're not seen just because they're not a great pick.
Scout squads were a shoe-horned in addition for 2.0, the "role" of scouts was previously filled by the recon squad, so now you've got what essentially is the same unit twice and neither of them are particularly good.

Also in regards to the BS5, I think you might also be confusing Recon/Scouts with Seeker squads. Seekers are the real reason why you don't see either of the other squads more often. Because you'll likely be taking them for the Nemesis Bolters, there's really no reason to take either unit instead of a unit of Seekers, who, while more expensive, come with BS5 and Precision Shots. They just outclass Recon/Scouts in the shooting game.

Maybe my Math is completely off. A 10 man unit of Seekers is cheaper than a 10 man unit of both Recon and Scout squads because of the Nemesis Bolter Cost. The BS5 makes the +1 to hit wasted on the Seekers which is why I overlooked them. I basically viewed them much like the Warder/Breacher units. Warders are so much better, but you pay the cost for them. I viewed Seekers the same way. This might be a case of just bad points assignment to the different units and I’m just unaware.

Both units Infiltrate, but the Recon/Scouts can also re-deploy if necessary unless I’m reading that rule wrong. In addition to being Troops, that gives them a slight edge over the Seekers. The range on the Recon/Scout units isn’t much of an advantage, as it would only makes a difference outside of 36”, and that’s only on turn 1, maybe 2 on a typical table.

Both units hit on 2’s. This is the main drive behind why I was curious why IF don’t see more Recon/Scouts. All the shots are Precision shots compared to the Seekers only getting it on a 4+. Both shots are the same Strength. Seekers win slightly by getting the better AP on a 4+ vs. a 5+, but the trade off there makes sense since you’re going to end up with some Non-Precision hits. Recon/Scouts don’t start winning the comparison until T6/Light Vehicles start showing up.

I’m still thinking 7th 40k, and in the back of my mind there are more armies than Marines, so I’m still planning for units that aren’t in HH. Thanks for letting me know. I finally know what to do with my last 10 Mk6 Marines. Just need to find some Cool Bolters to use.

 Snrub wrote:
It definitely should benefit from the 1+ to hit. It explicitly says "Auto Weapon" on it's profile.
Unless they FAQ'd it at some point and I missed it last time I looked. Was there any reason given as to why they shouldn't benefit?
Yes Malfunction only applies to reactions. Given how many shots they fire off, you'll likely get the odd Get's Hot, but you get your armour save, so it shouldn't be too painful. Chuck an Apothecary on the squad if you're really worried about it.
"Baal" Predator is definitely the right choice. Rule of Cool in all things.

I’ve got no reason to think they don’t benefit from the +1 either. It’s one of those things that I’ve seen posted as comments on different lists in enough different places to raise an eyebrow. I’ll do the IF ‘Baal’ Pred for sure then. Doing the 10 man Heavy Support squad is going to be hard to resist. No practical reason to do it other than the sheer ‘Whoa’ reaction of 10-12 Assault Cannon Marines popping out of a Land Raider and dropping 40-48 Dice.

 Snrub wrote:
The reason you never see Breachers in the Fist list is that there's never a reason to take them instead of Warders. Warders are just soooooooooooooooooooo much better. Better Ld, Power Axes, Lock Step, Shield Wall. And for some absolutely insane reason, they're Fast Attack instead of Troops.

Instead of posting a list and building that, I made a list of all the units I liked since this is mainly a painting project. Then I looked at all the Legions and Rules instead of going with my favorite. It came down to Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors, and Ravenguard. Settled on Imperial Fists when I decided on HOW I want to play. I then made a rough list of units that I wanted to collect/build/paint to make a variety of lists. I like the look of both the Warders and some 3rd party Breachers to be honest, so included both as an outline.

It wasn’t until I took that list and started comparing it to what others were doing that I saw some omissions which led me here. I’ve already got a decent collection of CORE models and have been assembling already. I was planning on getting 1 solid unit of 15 Warders, then the 2 units of Breachers to follow the fluff that Warders are promoted from Breacher squads. This is how I saw the ‘Stone Gauntlet’ RoW playing out. When I looked at what others were running on their Stone Gauntlet lists, they all seem to run multiple units of Warders.

 Snrub wrote:
Welcome to Heresy.

Thanks

 Akar wrote:
Instead of posting a list and building that, I made a list of all the units I liked since this is mainly a painting project. Then I looked at all the Legions and Rules instead of going with my favorite. It came down to Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors, and Ravenguard. Settled on Imperial Fists when I decided on HOW I want to play. I then made a rough list of units that I wanted to collect/build/paint to make a variety of lists. I like the look of both the Warders and some 3rd party Breachers to be honest, so included both as an outline.

It wasn’t until I took that list and started comparing it to what others were doing that I saw some omissions which led me here. I’ve already got a decent collection of CORE models and have been assembling already. I was planning on getting 1 solid unit of 15 Warders, then the 2 units of Breachers to follow the fluff that Warders are promoted from Breacher squads. This is how I saw the ‘Stone Gauntlet’ RoW playing out. When I looked at what others were running on their Stone Gauntlet lists, they all seem to run multiple units of Warders.

This is pretty much how I approach a new army. Ultimately, if a unit doesn't interest my from a building/painting point of view, I won't include it; I'm also prepared to take less than optimal units if they look good and fit the theme. A lot of people seem to approach HH this way, which is one of its attractions.

I've got a good list of units now so that should keep me occupied, especially as I start to track down the remaining kits/bits.

Any suggestions on Generals, Characters, etc? Would like to get them before I go to Prime before painting.

I've already got Fafnir, and the Tartaros Praetor. I plan on getting 2 Apothecaries.

 Akar wrote:
I've already got Fafnir, and the Tartaros Praetor. I plan on getting 2 Apothecaries.

Fafnir looks good enough - especially if you have Breachers or Phalanx Warders in your list. Sigismund seems very good, although quite a bit more expensive.

I have the 2 FW Apothecaries. They are really good sculpts. But I prefer converting Apothecaries from basic Marines.

Can't speak as to the Imperial Fists characters, but Apothecaries are a good shout. Can never have enough medics. I'm up to 7!

As far as the generic centurions go,
- I'm a big fan of the Vigilator. Great for picking off Sergeants, Apoths or those pesky special weapons/wargear pieces. Combo's well with despoiler squads thanks to Pinning/Spite of the Legion.
- Chaplains are a firm favourite among a lot of the people I play against. They're a great force multiplier for melee squads, and would fit in VERY well with a unit of Warders.
- Can't really go wrong with a Champion either. Great beatstick unit that's useful for pulling Sergeants/apoths/etc. out of combat and murdering them.
- The one I'm really coming around to is the Siege Breaker. Great if you've got tank problems. Can be used to give a unit sunder for the turn that works in both melee and range. The obvious use is to stick him with a Lascannon HSS and watch them do magic tricks with even the heaviest armour. But an underrated application for his talents is to give a basic predator or sicaran sunder and use them to glance even heavy armour to death through weight of fire/rending. Combined with the Imperial Fists native 1+ to hit with autoweapons, you've got a fairly reliable method of removing tanks. And nothing says funny like absolutely ventilating a land raider with a weapon that shouldn't actually be able to hurt it.

I'll grab a CHAPLAIN for sure then.

The VIGILATOR is the model i was looking for and probably glad I didn't know about him before, or I might have gone with a different Legion. I'm going to have 2xScout Squads w/Snipers, a Recon Squad, and thx to the above, I'll probably do a Seeker Squad as well. I liked the idea of doing a Sneaky army, and while not the best at it, feel that the IF can pull it off.

The SIEGE BREAKER is going to be another one that I might just have to add. I've already built 3 HSS.(Autos, HBolters, ACannons) so don't think I'll be doing a Lascannon squad of them. I AM going to do a 'Baal' Style Predator with all ACannons, so he might work there as well.

SIGISMIND/CHAMPIONS are off the Radar for now. I thought about going with a Pre-Templars theme after reading him, but it's not a direction I really want to go. I'll keep the champion in mind.

Rule of cool thought. Now that I know where to find all of the Consuls and rules. I like the idea of a FORGE MASTER. The Thallax models were one of the models that made me look at HH, but didn't like the rest. Now I found a way to include them and I think they'd look awesome in Yellow. No other benefit however and they are out of place with the main force playstyle wise.

Thx for the responses though. Narrowing it down now.

First List Draft. I like the idea of starting with a Recon Force to get going.

LA - VII: Imperial Fists
Rite of War: Recon Company

--- HQ ---
• 1x Legion Tartaros Praetor: Master of the Legion/Warlord, Tartaros Terminator Armour, Vigil Storm Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet, Combi-Bolter
• 1x Command Squad, Tartaros:
• 1x Tartaros Standard Bearer: Legion Standard, Solarite Power Gauntlet
• 2x Tartaros Chosen : Power Weapon (Power Axe), Vigil Storm Shield
• 2x Tartaros Chosen : Solarite Power Gauntlet, Vigil Storm Shield

• Castellan: Autocannon (master-crafted)
• Vigilator: Nemesis Bolter

--- Elites ---
• 2x Contemptor Dreadnought 2x Gravis Lascannon

--- Troops ---
• 10x Legion Recon: Nemesis Bolter
• 10x Legion Scout: Nemesis Bolter
• 10x Legion Scout: Nemesis Bolter
• 10x Legion Scout: Ferromag Shotgun
• 10x Legion Seeker: Kraken Bolter
Land Raider Proteus Carrier (Lascannon/Heavy Bolter)
• 10x Legion Seeker: Kraken Bolter
Land Raider Proteus Carrier (Lascannon/Heavy Bolter)

--- Heavy Support ---
• 2x Predator: Twin-linked Iliastus Assault Cannon, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannons, Iliastus Assault Cannon, Searchlights, Decurion Defensor

Quite a few holes here, but I already have most of the models, would just need the 3rd Scout Squad and 2nd Predator to build this list. I haven't built the Seekers yet and don't really know a good way to kit them out beyond the Kraken bolters. Any suggestions here would be appreciated. I can easily drop the 2nd Predator to find points as I really only planned to do the 1. I think a Xiphon fighter would fill the gap if I go that route. The Castellan is the only true filler here where I toss in 1 of the Autocannon Heavies. This theme is one where he makes sense-ish if he could start on the board. As they only 'Heavy' type, he's forced in reserve. With Relentless and a 3rd shot at 4', I don't have an issue running him solo.

This isn't set in stone, just my thoughts. I plan on doing 2 units of Wardens and Breachers, but it's going to take a while to get the bitz together to actually build the units. I'll eventually get them, but don't expect them anytime soon.

Unless I am missing something, you still only have two Line units in there - the command squad and the recon squad. Whilst Scouts can be taken as compulsory troops in a recon company, I am 90% sure they don't get line. I would suggest at least four Line units, especially as those Tartaros will be one of your main killing threats too, so you don't want them stuck on an objective too often.

In the Tartaros Squad, you have a lot of killing potential with those Solarite Power Gauntlets. The axes don't really achieve anything different, so you might consider a pair of blades to go at Ini 4 but still have 6+ rend, or you might even consider power lances, which lack rend but do have Ini 5. Best option might be paired lightning claws.

The twin lascannon of the Contemptors is not terrible, but lacking a fist is kind of a waste of its potential to advance whilst shooting and be effective in the melee phase too. If sitting back, you might as well go for Castraferrum pattern.

You are correct, Scouts don't get Line in the Recon Company.

Thank You both. I was told that Troops=Line so was going off of that. After what you said, I went and re-read the rules (Still making my way through it), and saw that is NOT the case. So here is an Updated List.

VII: Imperial Fists
Rite of War: Recon Company

--- HQ ---
• 1x Legion Tartaros Praetor :Master of the Legion/Warlord, Vigil Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer
• 1x Tartaros Standard Bearer w/Melee Weapon: Legion Standard, Solarite Power Gauntlet
• 2x Tartaros Chosen: Power Weapon (Power Axe), Vigil Storm Shield
• 2x Tartaros Chosen: Solarite Power Gauntlet, Vigil Storm Shield

• 1x Vigilator: Nemesis Bolter

--- Elites ---
• 2x Contemptor Dreadnought: 2x Gravis Lascannon

--- Troops ---
• 10x Legion Recon: Nemesis Bolter
• 10x Legion Scout: Nemesis Bolter
• 10x Legion Scout: Nemesis Bolter

• 10x Legion Tactical
• 1x Rhino Transport: Magna Combi-Weapon - Meltagun
• 10x Legion Tactical
• 1x Rhino Transport: Magna Combi-Weapon - Meltagun

--- Fast Attack ---
• 10x Legion Seeker: Kraken Bolter, Augury Scanner
• Land Raider Proteus Carrier (2x Sponson Mounted Gravis Lascannon, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter, Searchlights)
• 10x Legion Seeker: Kraken Bolter, Augury Scanner
• Land Raider Proteus Carrier (2x Sponson Mounted Gravis Lascannon, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter, Searchlights)

-- Heavy Support --
• 1x Predator: Twin-linked Iliastus Assault Cannon, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannons, Pintle Iliastus Assault Cannon, Decurion Defensor

1) Took 2 Tacticals, so that gives me a total of 4 Line (2 Tac, Recon, and CMD). I can drop both Rhinos and go full foot with 3x10 man Tac Squads for 5, but at the cost of mobility on Line units. The simple Alternative would be to run the Land Raiders Independently, and run the 2 Tac Squads in them, and have a 3rd on foot.

2) The Terminators running a mix of Fists/Axes, etc. is flexible for points. Haven't built them yet, but I plan to build them as: Convert 1xStandard w/Fist, 4 w/Fists, 2 w/Axes, 1 w/(Cannon), 2 w/Hammers. This is going to allow me to use them as a Cmd unit, Huscarl Squad, and enough models to toss in a 5 man Tartaros squad. I plan on giving them all Shields, so I wasn't terribly worried about having higher Initiative weapons with this initial Terminator Squad. I might get a 2nd unit of Terminators down the road, but for now the 1 box is all that's on the radar for these reasons.

3) While I haven't really played yet, the dual Lascannon Contemptors are just what made sense. I started out leaning toward a Stone Gauntlet RoW, and wanted to start slow with the Wardens/Breachers. The Contemptors fill the Heavy role on a Stone Gauntlet list where my Heavy Support slots are full. I feel it'd fit better to run them with Autocannons, Fists w/Melta, but don't plan on sticking with the Land Raiders once I get the other units. So they're there to give me some Penetrating power instead of relying on stripping vehicles down with the other weapons.

4) Dropped the Castellan. Not a big deal, was just going to sub him in using one of my Heavy Support units models.

I got a deal getting my foot in the door with Miniatures. I have 2 Land Raiders, 2 Tactical Squads, and all 3 of the Heavy Support Variants built already. Two Deredeo's have been built, but no plans to use them just yet since they're Heavy. Praetor is mostly built, just waiting to get a Hammer for his conversion, but useable as an incomplete Proxy. Working on the 20xScouts w/Nemesis right now, with 3xRhino up next. Got a pile of MkIII/VI waiting to be used for 3rd Tac Squad, and the Breachers/Seekers when I settle on some bits. Unopened box of Tartaros waiting for me to get Shields for them. The Vigilator, Predator and Recon squad have been paid for, but waiting for them to arrive.

I don't have the 3rd Scout Squad w/Shotguns or Seekers (unless I don't make the 3rd Tac squad). Leaning toward making the first squad of Seekers w/all Bolters. If/When I do the 2nd unit, I build the mix of Combi weapons at that time, and then blend the squads Any recommendations on what mix/ratio of Combi to Bolters would be welcome. Regardless, its more than enough to start playing so if anyone has any suggestions for a starting list based on that info, I'm happy to look. Don't plan on playing until mid January is because of the Holidays/work.

Thanks again for the Feedback, it's really helping me.

A few thoughts from a non-Imperial Fists player.

1. That’s a lot of Nemesis bolters…these going to be static, relatively fragile units. Does that suit your play style?

2. The conventional wisdom is that Terminators need a transport, as they can otherwise easily end up out of position and struggling to get into contact. This seems especially important with so many points tied up in a Command Squad geared towards assault.

3. I like Contemptors with 2 lascannon.

4. I would take Tac squads in Rhinos over Scouts, but I realise that doesn’t suit your theme.

5. Seekers don’t seem to warrant Land Raiders as transports. Similarly, I wouldn’t put Tac squads in them either.

6. I don’t think you’ll get much mileage out of a single Predator.

Yeah the command squad definitely needs a transport for maximum effectiveness. You're not going to lose anything by switching one of the seeker squads transports on the command squad.

 Snord wrote:
1. That’s a lot of Nemesis bolters…these going to be static, relatively fragile units. Does that suit your play style?

Without any games yet, the Wardens/Breachers feel like my playstyle the most. It was the breachers that was first on the list of units I knew I wanted to have. I liked the idea of supporting them with Recon/Scouts before settling on Imp. Fists. Then @Snrub got me looking at Seekers. I'm slightly frustrated with Wardens right now since the GW kits appear to be done with the traditional 'replace Torso on universal legs' design only to find out that the MkIII/VI kits are split Torso-Leg kits. GW doesn't sell the Scout Sniper kit, so I turned to Barter Bucket and a funny story of impatience landed me 4 boxes of them. Now I'm in a position where I have the Recons on the Way, Scouts being built, and the bodies for the Seekers. It's more of a FAFO situation where I'm going to put them all on the field and see how they actually compare. I still need to get the core mechanics down so the missions aren't even a priority right now.

Recon/Scouts have both Infiltrate and Scout. Going to find out if they even need to move after that. Scouts are Light Sub Type. Not optimal, but they should be able to move and Snap Shot the Nemesis Bolters, unlike Recon Squads who need to give up their shooting to reposition. Don't see any practical tactics here yet, but that's why they're all going on the same list. Seekers can be Static/Mobile but it comes at the cost of a modified Sniper rule.

 Snord wrote:
2. The conventional wisdom is that Terminators need a transport, as they can otherwise easily end up out of position and struggling to get into contact. This seems especially important with so many points tied up in a Command Squad geared towards assault.

Aware of this. Since this is pretty much the Experimental stage, going to see how much it actually matters. I know I'll probably end up coming to the same conclusion in the end. Thematically, it's starting with the Terminators, Contemptors, Predator (and now Tac squads) on the board, then an 'Avengers Assemble' moment as the rest of the army materializes w/Infiltrate. My only thought is to find points to give them Deep Strike if it's an issue, then look at Transports for them.

 Snord wrote:
3. I like Contemptors with 2 lascannon.

I can easily see myself getting 1-2 Leviathans for how cool they look. If I go that route, then I'm simply 2 more Contemptors away from a Fury of the Ancients list. I'll make those the more standard Contemptors. Dreams are bigger than my Wallet at this stage, so the Dual Lascannons is hard to budge out of my mind right now.

 Snord wrote:
4. I would take Tac squads in Rhinos over Scouts, but I realise that doesn’t suit your theme.

I agree, but feel this is more tied to actually tackling the Mission objectives than learning how to play and what the units do. I've shifted to doing this because it's what I plan on doing when I get around to the Stone Gauntlet list so learning how to use these from the start instead of trying to figure out ways around it is probably the smarter way to go.

 Snord wrote:
5. Seekers don’t seem to warrant Land Raiders as transports.

Land Raiders w/Infiltrate. Fits the Recon theme for now, that's as far as the thought process got. Still smile when I think that a lone Castellan with a Heavy Bolter can't start on the board, but we're going to sneak on an Armored Building. I'm still not sure I'm going to build the second Seeker squad yet if I can find build I'm comfortable with just one unit.

 Snord wrote:
6. I don’t think you’ll get much mileage out of a single Predator.

I'm building a Baal Predator for the Rule of Cool (and possibly a bit of trolling of my BA friend). I don't have high expectations for it, but all the stuff to build the model are on the way. I would also like to get one of the Sicaran variants down the road, but same situation. More for the coolness of having it than actually fielding it.

It is easy to separate the legs from the torso of the mkIII and mkVI kits. I do it all the time.

A variation on 10-man scout sniper squads that a friend suggested is to still take ten men, but only give five of them Nemesis bolters and the rest regular bolters. Use five of them as ablative wounds. Makes the squads 50pts cheaper, whilst still letting them pick out sergeants, etc... They'll kill less overall, but are likely to be more points efficient.

If it is an option, I think you should magnetise your Contemptors then, or only loosely fit the lascannons on. They can fill any gaps later as your list changes if you do that.

Fury of the Ancients is considered obnoxious, so it depends on your play group and how harsh you all play.

Depending on how you use the Predator, I can see it being suprisingly effective as a flanking vehicle.

 Fifty wrote:
It is easy to separate the legs from the torso of the mkIII and mkVI kits. I do it all the time.

I’ll keep that in mind. All of my current MkIII/MkVI kits are committed to other units for now. On the email list for the GW kit. Not thrilled about needing 6 of them to get all 30 Wardens, but would like to at least do one official kit before going to 3rd Party/Printed alternates.

 Fifty wrote:
A variation on 10-man scout sniper squads that a friend suggested is to still take ten men, but only give five of them Nemesis bolters and the rest regular bolters.

Did NOT know this was an option until you said it, so Thank You. Gave the Liber Astartes back to it’s owner after having made a list of units I wanted, so I'm not really looking at unit details much, part of the reason I'm posting here. I might consider this if I choose to get a unit of Shotgun scouts and settle on using my scouts for that tactic.

I’ve got to get used to the Sniper rule, and I’m not confident exactly how the timing works yet, so help me if I’m wrong. The way I read the rule, we roll to hit, roll to wound, then allocate the wounds where we want them. Those models then take their saves, removing them specifically if they fail. This would mean I have to assign multiple shots to a model as insurance, but if the first shot kills them then the rest are lost?

The plan is to try an old trick, and snipe out specific models to break a unit’s coherency after the ICs/Sgts/Sp. are all gone. The advantage I have with IF is that all the Sniper shots are hitting on 2’s, so there won’t be many lost shots and is probably the best unit to try and see if it works. The tactic with the Mixed Squads is to only go after those models while keeping the unit cheap, but their value/effectiveness goes down when they’ve accomplished that. At least that’s what my Gut says.

 Fifty wrote:
If it is an option, I think you should magnetise your Contemptors then, or only loosely fit the lascannons on. They can fill any gaps later as your list changes if you do that.

I’m not a fan of magnetizing weapons for a variety of personal reasons. It’s a great suggestion though and would consider it if a)I had some alternative way of getting Penetrating shots on Vehicles and not relying on the lesser weapons to take out enemy armor, and b)I wasn’t already going to end up with 6 Dreadnoughts in the end.

Here’s my train of thought right now. I’ve only got the 2 Land Raiders w/Lascannons, and the 3 Rhinos with combi-meltas. The Land Raiders haven’t made it on the Stone Gauntlet lists yet. I do have a unit of Autocannon and Illiastus HSS squads built. I plan on having adding a Siege Breaker which will boost both of these units, but they’re relying on Rend to Sandpaper vehicles down. So the Dreads are locked in with the Lascannons on virtually every list as a constant while I work out the more flexible units. Hope that makes sense.

 Fifty wrote:
Fury of the Ancients is considered obnoxious, so it depends on your play group and how harsh you all play.

Every ‘Fury’ list I’ve seen comes with the tag, ‘How to lose friends’ comment. I see similar comments many Stone Gauntlet lists as well. So, I’m building a library of units to build a variety of lists from. At 4 now, plan on getting 2 Leviathans down the line. The Fury list would be the next closest list I could build by adding 2-3 models.

 Fifty wrote:
Depending on how you use the Predator, I can see it being suprisingly effective as a flanking vehicle.

Honestly, this is the one unit I’m most looking forward to building and playing with once all the kits arrive. I love the idea of having 16 shots (4 Twin linked), hitting on 2’s, running around the field causing chaos. The Decurion Defensor gives him 8 shots as an advanced reaction. It gets hot, but if it hit’s on 2’s and doesn’t Snap Shot, then I’m all for it.
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Q1) For the Wardens, I'm most likely going to do 15 man units with 3 Plasma. Thunder Hammer or Fist on the Sgt? Is there are better option/loadout?
Q2) I'm going to do 15 man units for the Breachers as well. Most likely going to go 3 Meltas. Debatlng on going Volkites with them if anyone wants to provide some Insight or advice.
Q3) Seekers. I know that we can mix in Combi-Weapons and I'm debating on doing it. If I read it correctly, doing that means those models won't have access to the Kraken Bolter profile?