Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In Age of Sigmar, there are multiple human factions. In 40k, there is only one major human faction (Leagues of Votann are new and abhuman). I thought one day what if humanity was divided in 40k?

Adeptus Mechanicus and the Inquisition can be one faction. Space Marines and Assassins can be another faction. Custodes, God Emperor, Sisters of Silence, and Primarchs could be a faction. Sisters of Battle plus Rogue Traders could be a faction. Knights & Titans would be a faction. And finally, Astra Militarum and whatever Imperial Agents I missed would be the last faction.

How would the 40k lore be different with different factions given their own independence and often being openly hostile to one another. The story of the Horus Heresy and the Age of Apostasy would be handled a lot differently. Without a united imperial cult, you could also see some of the human factions allying with aliens or even being pro-psyker. Different factions might also decide to pursue robotics or other banned technologies.

All the human factions you've mentioned are part of the Imperium. If we were to have new factions they would still be human but have different aesthetics and encompass different values.

I don't know AOS that well but a good example would be The Empire and Bretonnians in Warhammer Fantasy / The Old World. Still human but different factions.

As for how the 40K lore would be different: One major thing would have to be explained: How can these factions survive against the countless horrors in the galaxy? There probably wouldn't be an Astronomican because why would one human faction maintain it for the benefit of all the other human factions? Of course it would still be 40K whether the Astronomican exists or not. Another reason would just need to be given for how humans can handle warp travel.

It kind of is, with Imperium Sanctus and Imperium Nihilus.

Imperium Nihilus is all but cut off, its planets and systems necessarily left to fend for themselves as best they can. The Lion has returned and seems to be getting his Crusade on. But the meat and bones is yet to be fully explored, so far as I’m aware.

The biggest setting change would be less the creation of new human factions; the Imperium can do that right now and indeed GW has already created multiple different human factions.

The main difference would be that a divided Imperium is a weaker Imperium. That leaves the door wide open for minor xenos factions to rise up and have a chance at taking a slice of the major game pie. Basically it allows more factions to get created and establish like the Tau have.

El Torro wrote:
As for how the 40K lore would be different: One major thing would have to be explained: How can these factions survive against the countless horrors in the galaxy? There probably wouldn't be an Astronomican because why would one human faction maintain it for the benefit of all the other human factions? Of course it would still be 40K whether the Astronomican exists or not. Another reason would just need to be given for how humans can handle warp travel.

Four things:

1. Humanity was a spacefaring race long before the Astronomican was established.

2. The Astronomican is a beacon. A magnetic north pole. "Why would one human faction maintain it for the benefit of all the other human factions?" you ask. Well, presumably they wouldn't maintain it for all other factions, but for themselves only. Except they would have a hard time preventing other factions from using it.

3. Other races, like the T'au, have established empires without need for the Astronomican or even psykers. Granted, the T'au have much shorter distances to travel, as their empire isn't galaxy-spanning. They also have the advantage of embracing technology, without any nonsense about how progress is an affront to the Omnissiah, but then again, humans could do the same if they only freed themselves from the dogmatic influences that have held them back for millennia.

4. Power invites a challenge. The Imperium is beset by enemies on all sides specifically because they're the most powerful and widespread faction in the galaxy. They are everywhere, pick fights with everyone as a matter of official policy, and must hold the line on multiple fronts at a time. This would not be nearly as much of an issue if it splintered into smaller factions that each have to deal with a smaller area of the galaxy and are not aggressively trying to expand, subjugate or exterminate. Compare to modern-day geopolitics: superpowers have more enemies, and more powerful ones. If WW3 erupts, you want to be in Uruguay or Iceland, not the U.S. or China.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It kind of is, with Imperium Sanctus and Imperium Nihilus.

Imperium Nihilus is all but cut off, its planets and systems necessarily left to fend for themselves as best they can. The Lion has returned and seems to be getting his Crusade on. But the meat and bones is yet to be fully explored, so far as I’m aware.

The Imperium Nihilus is still functionally the Imperium. They worship the Emperor and have the same laws and institutions. Their goal is to reunite with the rest of the Imperium, not become an empire in their own right.

Mind, it would be interesting to see a sort of Nihilus nationalism emerge. "Terra has abandoned us, and lo and behold, it turns out we can survive without them!"

.

I wouldn't want to be Iceland.

Not to be a nitpicking, but I'm sure that Keflavik Air Base (while not a military installation post 2006) is still on the "shoot missiles here" list due to the small NATO nation's continued support to NATO missions.

In a nuclear shooting war, nowhere is safe... except maybe McMurdo.


But back on topic.

There has been civil wars in the past (after the Horus Heresy.)

Segmentum Pacificus is still a largely abandoned territory on the Imperial map.

There have been trials, but as the 40k meisters say: The Imperium endures.

Calbear wrote:
In Age of Sigmar, there are multiple human factions. In 40k, there is only one major human faction (Leagues of Votann are new and abhuman). I thought one day what if humanity was divided in 40k?

Adeptus Mechanicus and the Inquisition can be one faction. Space Marines and Assassins can be another faction. Custodes, God Emperor, Sisters of Silence, and Primarchs could be a faction. Sisters of Battle plus Rogue Traders could be a faction. Knights & Titans would be a faction. And finally, Astra Militarum and whatever Imperial Agents I missed would be the last faction.

How would the 40k lore be different with different factions given their own independence and often being openly hostile to one another. The story of the Horus Heresy and the Age of Apostasy would be handled a lot differently. Without a united imperial cult, you could also see some of the human factions allying with aliens or even being pro-psyker. Different factions might also decide to pursue robotics or other banned technologies.

If the Imperium split it wouldn't be along the lines of whole factions, but more of regional subfactions I'd say, at least if we're talking about a fracturing of the whole Imperium. If it's about just two parts I could see whole factions taking sides. So, on the one hand a fanatic faction with everything ecclesiarchy, inquisition, Black Templars, maybe assassins, maybe Admech, on the other hand a more pragmatic faction around Space Marines, Knights, Custodes. Imperial Guard, the Navy and others you'd need on both sides. (People more into loyalist lore than me would draw the lines different than I do here).
On the other hand you could have, say a Fenris faction with space wolves, Guard, some Knight world, some Forgeworld, no inquisition (). Ultramar with Ultramarines, Guard, some Knight World, some Forgeworld. Terra as its own faction with Custodes, Fists, Mars, Grey Knights and so on.
The nice thing about that would be that it would make fights between imperial factions a bit more plausible and could encourage armies of different allies. However, nothing is stopping you to do that already, so if you don't want to blow up the whole imperium and randomly mix the cards and lock some of the factions in one place (like guard ONLY allying with Space Marines or whatever) I don't really see the point from a gaming perspective.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, this already happens?

At the most basic level, if you have a Marine army, and you go to games night at the FLGS and fight against guard. Guess what? That's one Imperial faction fighting another.

There are radical Inquisitors with their networks of Imperial contacts and Puritans with their networks of Imperial contacts.

There are jurisdictional lines being crossed all the time, and factions are not always in agreement. Now if you want a series of BL books about a conflict between one collection of Imperial armies and another, it's best to keep that restricted to a particular region of space.

What tends to unite human factions is a common enemy; in the absence of one, they would turn on themselves.

Personally, I'd like a six volume set of Age of Apostasy novels- one for each matron saint of the sororitas orders. I don't need 45 books like Hersesy, but six would be nice. I'd also like them to be written by women; it's not that men are guaranteed to mess up women's perspectives (especially with the transition to Daughters of the Emperor to Brides and all that implies), nor is it guaranteed that a woman will automatically get it right... But I do think it more likely than the reverse.

It may be more than people want to deal with in a piece of escapist 40k fanservice... But perhaps breaking that would be a nice novelty. To be fair, I don't read a lot of BL, so I don't know it as well as many of the folks in this forum.. But some of the Sisters books I have read have fallen a bit flat in the development of female characters.

El Torro wrote:
All the human factions you've mentioned are part of the Imperium. If we were to have new factions they would still be human but have different aesthetics and encompass different values.

I don't know AOS that well but a good example would be The Empire and Bretonnians in Warhammer Fantasy / The Old World. Still human but different factions.

I think a Space Bretonnia would be hilarious, especially if they still have widespread use of horses. They could have laser shooting lances, and chain swords, but you gotta keep those four legged buddies.

I think it would change the feel of the setting quite a bit?
The way I see it you have this monolithic, crumbling Imperium that is in many ways awful, but we all fight to maintain it because it's the only hope for humanity and if it falls then we'll all be slaves to the Chaos gods.

If it wasn't the only hope for humanity, because you have this other faction over here which isn't so awful, then that changes the stakes quite a lot!

 kyrtuck wrote:
I think a Space Bretonnia would be hilarious, especially if they still have widespread use of horses. They could have laser shooting lances, and chain swords, but you gotta keep those four legged buddies.

Like these have?
Throw is some headswaps, and you're good to go.


Webstore linkies:
https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/astra-militarum-lord-solar-leontus-2023
https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/astra-militarum-attilan-rough-riders-2023

Perfect guys to model running with Imperial Knights.

I think parts of it are divided from the rest by various ways constantly. Just a matter of using one's imagination to come up who, where and how.

How else can one explain constant imperium vs imperium games being played all over? Schisms can be as common or as rare as your POV to the fluff