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Hello to all!

I'm a long time Slaanesh and noise Marine player, so was very excited about the upcoming Codex.

Sadly, it was as I feared… Rather than just adding noise marine toys to a generic chaos marine list, they created a new entity.
Lost tons of good chaos toys…Predator, Raptors, Bikers, cultists, Helbrutes, Obliterators,

Has anybody tried the new lists?
I got a game in yesterday, trying the detachment that lets you offloading charge (at work and forgot the detatchment name).
Not impressed…
Lost tons of my antiarmor capabilities, I cannot seem to find any of the truly powerful close combat options either...

Any advice or insight from the club?

Thanks!
Chris

Time to invest in 3 Chaos Knight Armigars (I prefer Brigands...) for the AT

I was pretty surprised there wasn't some sort of cultist option - all the other god-aligned CSM books got something like that.

Lucius plus Flawless Blades look pretty decent for melee? I'm only casual though, not playing tournaments etc.

I love the models but will be using them for my Siege of Terra era EC in 30k.

GW have done Khorne & Slannesh dirty. All one needs to do is look at 1ksons/DG to see the unit variety that's missing.

Not even sure I'd include Thousand Sons in that. I'd say only DG were really done justice. The dedicated codex pretty much killed my enthusiasm for my World Eaters.

So far I'm cautiously optimistic about the EC. What's there looks good at least, and it's not entirely one-dimensional like the WE.

Even Death Guard lost a load of units which they really should have access to (Havoks used to have their own box...) and are going to lose more soon.

Yeah DG are "A tier" for what a cult legion could be.

TS is a B-/C+

WE is a C-/D+

EC is a D- if not an F - I tjink the quality of the sculpts and the quality of the detachment rules is all thats keeping them above fail territory.

Still umming and ahhing over whether to run my WE as WE or as Khorne CSMs. I'd be sorry to not use the Kharn it took me about a decade to get round to finishing painting, but on the flip side I'd be losing my Havocs, my Raptors, my Bikes...

I feel like this edition WE are getting a bit of the short straw but who knows next edition or a mid-edition upgrade pack and model release and we could see them gain a bunch of new shiny toys to play with.

We shall see - I'd love to be surprised but at the moment I'm not envisaging them getting anything beyond the Khorne daemons.

Anyways, EC... How are we arming our Lord Exultants? I'm thinking he runs with the melee CSMs (Infractors?) so speccing him more for that. I'm not mad on the spear. I like the whip but don't see it achieving a huge amount. Fist and Screamer seems OK - plus appropriate

Crispy78 wrote:
We shall see - I'd love to be surprised but at the moment I'm not envisaging them getting anything beyond the Khorne daemons.

Anyways, EC... How are we arming our Lord Exultants? I'm thinking he runs with the melee CSMs (Infractors?) so speccing him more for that. I'm not mad on the spear. I like the whip but don't see it achieving a huge amount. Fist and Screamer seems OK - plus appropriate

I agree with fist and screemer,
I tried the whip and spear and was un-impressed...
LExultant with Infractors definitely can chew up standard infantry
Lucius plus Blades does well against elites
but still very little hard punching HTH units

may wait for the updated noise marine datasheet for generic CSM,
and just run my ECs as rando war-mob!

And spear and fist seems redundant - you can't use both, can you?

Being able to ally in daemons has me tempted to pick up the new EC book.

In my current collection, I have

* 15 noise marines (2 blast masters, 2 doom sirens, the rest sonic blasters)
* 1 daemon prince (on foot)
* plenty of cultists
* some generic chaos characters
* 20 daemonettes
* 15 seekers
* the masque
* a herald of slaanesh

How hard would it be to turn that into a casual-but-viable army?

So are Slaanesh demon in the new codex? I've heard rumors that demons would be folded into the SM codices and the new EC codex would be proof of that.

Crispy78 wrote:We shall see - I'd love to be surprised but at the moment I'm not envisaging them getting anything beyond the Khorne daemons.

Anyways, EC... How are we arming our Lord Exultants? I'm thinking he runs with the melee CSMs (Infractors?) so speccing him more for that. I'm not mad on the spear. I like the whip but don't see it achieving a huge amount. Fist and Screamer seems OK - plus appropriate

Spear and whip is likely the best combo. The spear is better than the fist in almost all cases. The only time the fist is better is when you didn't charge against a T4 or T8 enemy (or T14 and 15, I guess). Given the army rule and general speed of EC, you'll be doing most of the charging and the whip benefits from a few Enhancements and the Lethal Hits.

Mr Nobody wrote:So are Slaanesh demon in the new codex? I've heard rumors that demons would be folded into the SM codices and the new EC codex would be proof of that.

Daemons are in the Codex, but in a really crappy way. There are 5 datasheets - Keeper, Daemonettes, Fiends, Seekers and Shalaxi. They can only be included in one specific detachment, and only 50% of your points can be spent on them. I'd much rather they'd made them a regular part of the army, even if they didn't benefit from the army rule. It's looking very likely the other Daemons will be added to the other 3 cult legion books.

Slipspace wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:So are Slaanesh demon in the new codex? I've heard rumors that demons would be folded into the SM codices and the new EC codex would be proof of that.

Daemons are in the Codex, but in a really crappy way. There are 5 datasheets - Keeper, Daemonettes, Fiends, Seekers and Shalaxi. They can only be included in one specific detachment, and only 50% of your points can be spent on them. I'd much rather they'd made them a regular part of the army, even if they didn't benefit from the army rule. It's looking very likely the other Daemons will be added to the other 3 cult legion books.

The just revamped Index: Daemons; technically at the moment you can ally 25% of your army as ANY Daemons into Emperor's Children (unless you take Lucius as your Warlord). I imagine they'll change it once the Codex properly releases to match the other three.

Slipspace wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:We shall see - I'd love to be surprised but at the moment I'm not envisaging them getting anything beyond the Khorne daemons.

Anyways, EC... How are we arming our Lord Exultants? I'm thinking he runs with the melee CSMs (Infractors?) so speccing him more for that. I'm not mad on the spear. I like the whip but don't see it achieving a huge amount. Fist and Screamer seems OK - plus appropriate

Spear and whip is likely the best combo. The spear is better than the fist in almost all cases. The only time the fist is better is when you didn't charge against a T4 or T8 enemy (or T14 and 15, I guess). Given the army rule and general speed of EC, you'll be doing most of the charging and the whip benefits from a few Enhancements and the Lethal Hits.

Yeah I can see Lance on the spear would probably pip the fist. Need to double-check what can bolster the whip - screamer pistol looks pretty potent.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Being able to ally in daemons has me tempted to pick up the new EC book.

In my current collection, I have

* 15 noise marines (2 blast masters, 2 doom sirens, the rest sonic blasters)
* 1 daemon prince (on foot)
* plenty of cultists
* some generic chaos characters
* 20 daemonettes
* 15 seekers
* the masque
* a herald of slaanesh

How hard would it be to turn that into a casual-but-viable army?

Running as EC (not Slaanesh CSM) cuts out your cultists. Heralds and the Masque are out too. Not sure about the daemon Prince- Greater Daemons are safe, so the DP might be too.

Yeah EC codex will let you have a DP

Played first and only game of 40k with the new codex.

40k offers me absolutely zero incentive to play it anymore.

Negatives:
Noise Marines not troops/battleline is stupid

Noise Marines being limited to 18 is completly asinine

Terminators but no terminator lord boggles the mind

Flawless Blades die wayyyyy too easily

Infractors/Tormentors are acceptable but not at the loss of Noise Marines

Lucius only able to join Flawless and nobody else

Positives:
Lucius is great

Only one, which for a faction as excessive as EC is pretty pathetic.

So GW did the GW thing.
If I am going to play 40k with them, I guess Flawless Host is the way for me.

I'm just gonna go back to playing 30k with all the Kakophani I want and ROW that feels like EC. Surgical Augments that are beneficial & daemons when/where I want them.

Do you mind if I inquire what faction/detachment you played against?

Saim Han

2 most recent codex vs each other.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Played first and only game of 40k with the new codex.

40k offers me absolutely zero incentive to play it anymore.

Negatives:
Noise Marines not troops/battleline is stupid

Noise Marines being limited to 18 is completly asinine

Terminators but no terminator lord boggles the mind

Flawless Blades die wayyyyy too easily

Infractors/Tormentors are acceptable but not at the loss of Noise Marines

Lucius only able to join Flawless and nobody else

Positives:
Lucius is great

Only one, which for a faction as excessive as EC is pretty pathetic.

So GW did the GW thing.
If I am going to play 40k with them, I guess Flawless Host is the way for me.

I'm just gonna go back to playing 30k with all the Kakophani I want and ROW that feels like EC. Surgical Augments that are beneficial & daemons when/where I want them.

As rebuttal, what a noise marine actually is had changed, the unit you're wanting and the one you get are not the same anymore imo.

I'd extrapolate it further that it's also reflected in the army design as a whole, they're now a niche hyper focused melee force with a lot of complex moving pieces. Noise Marines don't fit that generally, they could, but GW didn't.

I suspect daemons will be more integrated in 11th, but as things stand now, you're probably right that HH will fit your wants and collection better (pending its new edition not upheaving it all ofc).

I think to some extent it was a bit of a whiff that the infractors/tormentors arent a direct replacement for old noisemarines. Would the option of a sonic blaster/bladtmaster/doom siren in the squad really have been a problem?

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think to some extent it was a bit of a whiff that the infractors/tormentors arent a direct replacement for old noisemarines. Would the option of a sonic blaster/bladtmaster/doom siren in the squad really have been a problem?

There's already a sonic pistol, so it would have been a neat and easy addition. That said, I like the fact GW has moved away from EC being just Noise Marines and has actually put some thought into how the army should differ from other CSM factions. They don't have much raw damage output, but they have a lot of movement tricks and mobility, which should make them pretty good at playing the mission.

Surw, but the shooty one of those units has plas/melta access anyway, replacing it w blastmaster/sonic blaster/doom siren would have been thematically appropriate and stayed true to how the army plays.

I dunno, as a more-or-less former WE player at this point I would advise caution against wishing them to be more one-dimensional... I wouldn't want EC to just be the noise-weapons army.

They didn't need to add Tormentors.
Noise Marines would have fit it just fine. Just give them the Combi/guitar and call it good.

THEN add Kakophanists/obliterator equivalent with heavy blastmaster weapons.

Infractors as a unit are just fine and I like them since they're a 30k Despoiler/Vet style of unit.

As a side note/question- Are CSM going to be using the current, White Dwarf, version of Noise Marines or are they going to be using the Codex version? The big difference being the number of marines in the unit and how many Blastmasters are allowed.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
As a side note/question- Are CSM going to be using the current, White Dwarf, version of Noise Marines or are they going to be using the Codex version? The big difference being the number of marines in the unit and how many Blastmasters are allowed.

Officially, CSM use the Index version until the Codex hits full release.