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Alright. I've come to the conclusion that no one really enjoys playing against my Imperial Knights.

Shocker, huh?

I was going to play another 40k army, yet I cannot make any type of realistic decision.

I have previously played:
Armoured Company, Iyanden, Imperial Knights, a Very Small Custodes force, and Dark Angels Ravenwing\Deathwimg.

I have contemplated:
Deathwatch (so I can ADHD and pick models I like from every marine faction and paint them black)

Black Templars (Because they were the first Space Marines I ever saw, and I like the Emperor's Champion)

Blood Ravens (A generic SM army, that has multiple local players [4+], so I'm going to nix this one)

Adeptus Mechanicus (Smaller stompy robots, but i feel like it's more of the same as what I have now).

Grey Knights (I would play them if they were in scale to everything else).

Adeptus Custodes (My painting skill is not up the challenge, but it is a small elite army. The issue is that a lot of the models I need are hard to find/expensive resin)

I think that's my current mental wanderings. I kinda like small forces that aren't too difficult to play/paint. Any suggestions? Advice?

Maybe there is another option I'm missing.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

Maybe there is another option I'm missing.

May I present for your consideration.....

 LunarSol wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

Maybe there is another option I'm missing.

May I present for your consideration.....

Spoiler:

Deathwatch Black Templars!

OK. That is pretty fething cool!

You're already on the train with what I was going to recommend: another Imperial force that would allow you to bring a Knight as an ally.

My thoughts on this probably aren't what you're looking for, because I mostly build for Narrative, and I'm such a slow painter that I always build from an Escalation framework.

So: Do you also play Kill Team, and if so, is there a team or two that you might like to incorporate into a 40k army to achieve both maximum value and increased Narrative/ Escalation potential?

On a similar note, are there units that you like that could be brought into your army as Imperial Agents?

Do you also play Heresy, and if so, do have the option of including some Heresy units via Legends?

Were do you fall on the Competitive to Narrative spectrum?

Other people who post will probably have more useful advice, but those are the questions that come to mind for me.

Honestly, I think leaning into the mix of Imperial Weirdos to build a 2k army that can be broken down into multiple Kill Teams, Boarding Action and/or Incursion size armies just gives you so many ways to enjoy the game(s) is the best option... But I have no idea how well such an army would play at 2k, and I don't know how important that is to you in relation to the benefits that come with a modular army like this.

I'm also going to add a vote for Agents, because from a fluff perspective you can do damn near anything you want. It's got Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Sisters baked in, you can ally in Imperial Knights, or you can also get small forces of other Imperial factions and ally in the Agents (and/or a Knight!).

Basically, Imperial Soup is hella cool (aside from the whole 'worshipping a corpse' thing).

 PenitentJake wrote:
You're already on the train with what I was going to recommend: another Imperial force that would allow you to bring a Knight as an ally.

My thoughts on this probably aren't what you're looking for, because I mostly build for Narrative, and I'm such a slow painter that I always build from an Escalation framework.

So: Do you also play Kill Team, and if so, is there a team or two that you might like to incorporate into a 40k army to achieve both maximum value and increased Narrative/ Escalation potential?

On a similar note, are there units that you like that could be brought into your army as Imperial Agents?

Do you also play Heresy, and if so, do have the option of including some Heresy units via Legends?

Were do you fall on the Competitive to Narrative spectrum?

Other people who post will probably have more useful advice, but those are the questions that come to mind for me.

Honestly, I think leaning into the mix of Imperial Weirdos to build a 2k army that can be broken down into multiple Kill Teams, Boarding Action and/or Incursion size armies just gives you so many ways to enjoy the game(s) is the best option... But I have no idea how well such an army would play at 2k, and I don't know how important that is to you in relation to the benefits that come with a modular army like this.

I am mainly a "let's play for fun" player...

The idea of doing an army that could be carried across Kill Team, Boarding Actions, Combat Patrol and full size games is appealing to me.

(As I saw the look of fear from someone the other week when they were talking about playing Combat Patrol and I said, "I have my Knights with me.")


As for Horus Heresy, I tried playing with my Knights, but as I had not played 6th-8th Edition, I was a tad overwhelmed by the rules... and that it felt like every weapon had its own "special rules." Thus, its not a priority for my future gaming.


I have some bizarre conversion ideas too...

For about 5 years I have thought about making a Black Templar Dreadnought that is so old that he used to be an Imperial Fist... I thought it would be fun to have him rock both the old Fist Legion emblem and the Templar emblem, and give him a yellow and black color scheme...

(I have no idea how to build it though )

 BorderCountess wrote:
I'm also going to add a vote for Agents, because from a fluff perspective you can do damn near anything you want. It's got Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Sisters baked in, you can ally in Imperial Knights, or you can also get small forces of other Imperial factions and ally in the Agents (and/or a Knight!).

Basically, Imperial Soup is hella cool (aside from the whole 'worshipping a corpse' thing).

I still hold out hope that someone figures out how to build the Grotmas Assassinorum Veiled Blade force...

And on the plus side The Emperor doesn't have to try to lure people to His side with the promise of cookies.

This is why I can't seem to pick an army.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I still hold out hope that someone figures out how to build the Grotmas Assassinorum Veiled Blade force...

Take all four assassins, and whatever else you want. Job's a goodun'.

And on the plus side The Emperor doesn't have to try to lure people to His side with the promise of cookies.

He just uses the threat of fire, instead. I'll take the (maybe) cookies, thanks.

There is one obvious solution, ORKS. Always ORKS. They’re best.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I still hold out hope that someone figures out how to build the Grotmas Assassinorum Veiled Blade force...

Take all four assassins, and whatever else you want. Job's a goodun'.

Veiled Blade Assassination Force
(565 pts)
Callidus Assassin
140 pts
Culexus Assassin
125 pts
Eversor Assassin
145 pts
Vindicare Assassin
155 pts

What would you add? Too bad the Assassin's can't be the Warlord.

Andykp wrote:
There is one obvious solution, ORKS. Always ORKS. They’re best.

Thought about Orks, but that's a lot if dudes. Like a lot. And if I build Orks I know I will have to hunt down and buy an OOP Chinork... and a full Ork AirCav....

Gah! Too many options!

Maybe I should start with a list of the armies I know I don't want to play...

Orks a lifestyle choice, but well worth it. It is a lot of dudes.

You seem drawn to marines, do the new wolves on the horizon tickle your fancy, I know they stirred my loins a bit?

I would go for an Imperial faction you can ally your Knights to as others have said. Black Templars seem to me the most coherent of the choices you've put forward, but really any of the Imperial factions could work. AM would be thematically appropriate allies for Knights but I'm not a huge fan of the 40K mechanicus units outside the basics.

FWIW, my long term goal is to have most chapters available as Deathwatch variants like so:

How does the Grotmas Index: Deathwatch play, and are they different from the Deathwatch of Imperial Agents?


Ok, Let's mark out the armies I don't want to play, or don't think up for the challenge of building and painting.

Ultramarines
Imperial Fists
Dark Angels
Blood Angels
Salamanders
Iron Hands
Space Wolves
White Scars
Raven Guard
Deathwatch
Black Templar
Grey Knights

Astra Militarum
Adepta Sororitas
Adeptus Custodes
Adeptus Mechanicus
Imperial Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Death Guard
Thousand Sons
World Eaters
Emperor's Children
Chaos Daemons
Chaos Knights
Craftworlds
Drukhari
Harlequins
Ynnari
Tyranids
Genestealer Cults
Necrons
Imperial Agents
Orks
T’au Empire
Leagues of Votann
Aeldari

Pros and Cons

Imperial Agents
Can use Deathwatch, Assassins, Grey Knights, etc. Just don't know how to build an army to play with all these toys effectively.

Deathwatch
Will need to convert the Watch Master and Artemis to Primaris, but the rest of the army will allow me to pick and chose models from different ranges, while maintaining a simple color scheme.

Black Templar
Cool aesthetic, lots of grim-dark fun. They are currently tied with Deathwatch in my mind, plus they have a good Combat Patrol, unlike Deathwatch or Imperial Agents.

Orks
I like the Ork Kommandos, but all the models I want for an Ork army are OOP or hard to find... and I would need a lot of Orks, so they fit into the Astra Militarum category of, "They’re cool, but too expensive right now."

Grey Knights
If they were in the same scale as everyone else, I would buy them in half a second... but they're not.

Adeptus Custodes
Very cool, very elite. Right up my alley, but I don't want to have to go the pirate route to build an army. Too much resin required.

I think I'm making progress. Thank you for the help.

Grotsmas Deathwatch is fantastic. Agents Deathwatch is a miserable joke. Deathwatch in Agents isn't terrible, but Agents as a whole is a very niche army and honestly, I don't feel like GW has treated it like something they'll support long term.

The danger of Grotsmas Deathwatch is the likelihood that it doesn't see 11th edition support. Deathwatch has been kind of all over the place basically since it started, but in 10th it got axed and then revived while weirdly also receiving a ton of media around them. It feels like GW simultaneously has big plans for Deathwatch and plans to remove them from the game. There's also not great support, with the shoulder pads being hard to come by outside of 3D printers.

Personally, I think the bespoke marines that you run under whatever style or chapter you like is the way to go, I just do that with Deathwatch because that's kind of their thing anyway and I've been building them up since 7th.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

Orks
I like the Ork Kommandos, but all the models I want for an Ork army are OOP or hard to find... and I would need a lot of Orks, so they fit into the Astra Militarum category of, "They’re cool, but too expensive right now."

What are you looking for?

And for Combat Patrol? I really like the Gordrang's Gitstompas
1 warboss in mega-armor
10 Boyz
10 Boyz
3 Deffkoptas
1 Deff Dread
The CP box they came in all together is oop, but you can piece it together with individual kits. Just requires some searching.

Playing Index: Deathwatch is like playing Blood Angels - snowflake Space Marines. Personally, one of the reasons I'm playing as Blood Ravens is so I can switch between snowflake units as I wish - sometimes I'll use Blood Angels units, sometimes Dark Angels...

Codex: Agents apparently works best when you plop down ALL the melta. Mostly Inquisitorial Agents and Sisters.

I think a big question to ask yourself is would you be willing to play Deathwatch as a regular space marine army if they fell out of GW's graces?

If the answer is yes then they're very versatile. If the answer is no then they're potentially very restrictive, because I don't think you can trust GW to give them a decent full-sized ruleset throughout every edition.

I'd stick with Knights, but mix in some Ad-Mech with the Questor-Forgepact Xmas detachment. Try and keep the number of Knights to a minimum; one for every 1K points is the sweet spot.

Given your preference for smaller, manageable forces, have you considered playing Genestealer Cults? They offer unique gameplay with a mix of elite models and swarming units, plus they can be fun to paint with lots of personality. Alternatively, Sisters of Battle could be a good choice—small elite units, amazing models, and a strong, thematic army! I was in a rush and didn’t know where to turn until I found Academized’s essay for sale service. Their team helped me get a high-quality essay fast. Check out https://academized.com/essay-for-sale for reliable essay help. They offer competitive prices and timely delivery without compromising on quality.

AdMech seems like the easy choice. If Knights were your first love don’t let people force you to shelve them. Just use AdMech/ Skitarii as support troops for them. You'll only have 1 large knight on the board, but at least you got your favourite models on the board. And you can use the same paint scheme you have on your knights, which is harder with marine allies.

Also I think of the armies you mention Custodes are actually the easiest to paint in my view. Retributor armor spray and a wash will solve 80% of the painting...

In general starting a new army, a year before a new edition drops is not such a good idea, if you plan to play with it. Because there is a high chance you are not going to like what you get in 3-9 months this editions changed and no one knows(aside for those playtesting 11th rules) how the faction you picked is going to work, or if it is even going to be in the game, in the next edition.

If money isn't a problem you can of course buy stuff in bulk and comission paint it, and get a few months out of the army. Potentialy.

If the army is suppose to be a hobby/paint project, pick you like the look of and probably stay away from horde armies.

As others here said. Deathwatch will give you the option to play most marine stuff, and if opponents are okey with it play other marine armies too. Custodes are the easiest to paint and if you ignore FW/have access to recasters or 3d printing are actualy cheaper to get them some armies.

But in general I would rethink the whole "no one likes playing vs knights". Did everyone voice that directly to you ? Do they change and buy new armies, if you don't like what they are playing? If knights is what you like both play/hobby wise stay with them.
Also another option is to take it slow. Maybe do some hobby projects non related to the gaming thing. Most people in my circle droped from w40k and AoS, and are now building/painting Fantasy stuff. Maybe you have an idea for a knight that doesn't have rules, but you would like to see a Sword&Board Paladin, or make "levy/house hold" troops to run with the knights. Maybe build, convert and paint pilots for your knights. This kind of a hobby projects could easily take you up to 11th without much worry about playing the game.

I've given a lot of thought to the advice you've shared with me...

And I've decided to hold off on buying an entirely new army.

For a while I wanted to pick something new, hopefully before the prices jumped up, but I realized that I was buying new stuff for other people and not myself.

Instead, I'm going to try the Questor Forgepact Detachment. This will allow me to add Mechanicus infantry to my Knights and expand upon the storyline I've written for my forces. This also leaves the door open to drop in some Imperial Agents if I want to.

Maybe there will be some new way to play with the Knights when the codex is released later this year.

Thank you for your help.

I AM GABRIEL ANGELOS, CHAPTER MASTER OF THE BLOOD RAVENS

Please man pick blood ravens and make a blog of it!

Besides, how's the novel going mate?

I'm at an impasse, but I think the noir genre can support it... that the killer escapes justice.

Aye, in a sense, that's original ending!