Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We're about to play a league of coliseum, a 500 point game where you can't use named characters or anything about toughness 9, at my LGS. Can anyone recommend what models I should buy or use for this event? This is not a sweaty event, so it should be fun and casual. My goal is that I eventually build towards a 2,000 point Ynnari list after this league, so I would want the models to work well in that future list as I build towards it.

I've never played Eldar before, so I don't know where to start.

Do you like a painting challenge? If so I recommend Harlequins. You can have a very fast, fun theme army sitting at 500 points that can be incorporated into larger Eldar armies later.

Why Eldar? What drew you to the army?

Most Eldar units do what they say on the tin. The aspects are specialists. So picking what unit you need to use to get the job done is not hard. But there there are also other units.

Pick your favorite units. What roles do they fill? What units are needed to support them.

What other roles do you need done? What units do they need to help?

Dark Reapers are a good AT/counter heavy infantry piece, while not being as oppressive as the Fire Dragons can be.

I would suggest at least some Guardians of either the Storm or Defender variety. The meta play (which must bear mentioning) is either a single squad of Storm Guardians or Warlocks + Farseer + Support Weapon on Defenders. They have pretty good character support, and the Defenders' longarms are superior to, say, the Guard lasgun. I wouldn't put much stock in the Storm Guardians' melee weapons; they're really just there for the spike damage from the fusion guns/flamers.

Banshees are good anti-elite melee.

You're playing Ynnari, so you have limited access to some Drukhari datasheets.

Autarch Wayleaper with Dragon Fusion Pistol & Star Glaive
Wraithguard x5 with wraithcannon
Wraithblades x5 with axe & shield
2 Bonesingers (found in Legends) - attach 1 to each of the Wraith units, or simply run them near the wraiths for more flexability.
No enhancements.
500pts exact.

Tough, good + & ++ saves, can maul just about anything in shooting or melee, and the wraiths can be healed.
And makes for a decent core to build off of later.

ccs wrote:
Autarch Wayleaper with Dragon Fusion Pistol & Star Glaive
Wraithguard x5 with wraithcannon
Wraithblades x5 with axe & shield
2 Bonesingers (found in Legends) - attach 1 to each of the Wraith units, or simply run them near the wraiths for more flexability.
No enhancements.
500pts exact.

Tough, good + & ++ saves, can maul just about anything in shooting or melee, and the wraiths can be healed.
And makes for a decent core to build off of later.

I would ask two things before you build this, if it appeals to you.

1) Are Legends okay?
2) Are people okay with bricks that tough and killy?

Not sure about Ynnari, but my basic 500 point list is founded on...

Farseer
Guardian Defenders
Warwalker
Vyper

...which is solid for Eldar throughout the years. You're always going to be fragile, but mobility, firepower and psychic skill will always be on your side. The Aspects are good as well, but can be paper-rock-scissors depending on what your opponent will put on the table.

I've played a lot of the Collesium format you're running for the event. The two things people tend to underestimate about it are 1) How important scoring units are. With so few units on the table, having any unit do actions is hard. Having multifaceted units that you don't feel bad if they have to take a turn to score, while still contributing to the overall gameplan is important. 2) How fast the format can be. At only 18" apart, it's not hard for either player to set up turn 1 charges. If you're not planning to do it yourself with something like Shining Spears, you should be prepared that someone could do it to you.

I'm not an Aeldari expert by any means, but were I to build them for coliseum, I'd run something like this:

Aspect Host: 490pts

Farseer Skyrunner: 80pts
Warp Spiders x5: 85pts
Striking Scorpions x10: 150pts
Viper: 65pts (Yes, I know the kit is ancient)
Shining Spears x3: 110pts

While the Skyrunner can't actually lead the Shining Spears, that doesn't actually matter as you want them separate anyway.

The Skyrunner and the Viper are your support pieces and action units. The Viper tossing out -1 to hit and the farseer -1 to wound (who's ability can also still be used even if they are performing an action) combine to debilitate a powerful enemy unit without you actually having to commit to engaging it. They are also perfectly fine ranged support units that can sit on objectives, but can run off quickly to do actions where needed.

The Warp Spiders and Shining Spears are your tactical harassment units. They basically get to ignore the terrain on the board and be anywhere you need them, ready to fight. So long as you don't overcommit, these units can easily take apart a divided enemy force on their own, or combining them into a single enemy unit can be a devastating first strike.

Lastly, the Striking Scorpions are your main punching power. I'd considered Howling Banshees as Fights first is so strong in arena, but the Scorpions are more durable at range and with both infiltrate and scout while being 40 points cheaper per 10, they can be positioned to take advantage of an exposed position turn 1 very easily, while still being safe themselves. With the Preternatural Precision strat, they will blend through anything in a 500 point game. (It's also a lot cheaper money wise to get 10 scorpions than 10 banshee's too XD)

Hopefully that helps if you're looking for a direction for a dedicated coliseum list.

To start, especially as such low points? I’d favour flexibility to be getting on with.

Aspects can hit hard, but have their preferred targets. Against most other things, they’ll likely struggle to pull their weight.

So I think I’d start with a Fareer, Guardians, maybe a War Walker or some Wraithblades.

You should be able to magnetise or pin the weapon mounted on the Grav Sled, giving you some flexibility between games.

Then, once you’re familiar with your opponents lists and play styles? Judicious addition of Aspects can pay dividends. Though if you plan on Banshees? Definitely worth also getting them a transport to avoid them getting more shot up than absolutely necessary on their way to kick a bunch of heads off.

Just be aware that because Eldar tend to specialise? You may find games where you struggle if your opponents list happens to be your natural nemesis

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Then, once you’re familiar with your opponents lists and play styles? Judicious addition of Aspects can pay dividends. Though if you plan on Banshees? Definitely worth also getting them a transport to avoid them getting more shot up than absolutely necessary on their way to kick a bunch of heads off.

While your other points are spot on, for a Coliseum game, I whole heartedly disagree with any use of transports. They just don't do enough. The board is much smaller, so you don't get much benefit from the extra movement, damage output is lower, so you don't require as much protection, and transports themselves have so little damage, that they don't help out in that respect either. Aside from some cheeky move blocking shenanigans to gum up one part of the board, I've only ever seen them be a liability in coliseum games. Yeah, there's a good chance your transport lives through the game against some armies, but if everything else is dead, you've still lost.

They also take up a huge amount of your points. Say you put 10 Banshees in a Wave Serpent, that's what, 315 points right there? You drop it, deliver your one big attack, then what do you have left? Even if you go 5 in a Falcon, that's 225 points and you've nearly halved your damage output for far less than half the points, better to just go full on with the Banshees at 10, take your lumps if it comes to it, and use the other points elsewhere. With the small table size, it's not hard to out LOS most of the army on a board edge, then rush in for a kill, especially with advance/charge, on top of an 8" move like the Banshee's have.

cjmate8 wrote:
We're about to play a league of coliseum, a 500 point game where you can't use named characters or anything about toughness 9, at my LGS. Can anyone recommend what models I should buy or use for this event?

Not familiar with the format, but I'm happy to throw my two cents in. Also, no named characters feels silly/arbitrary, but that's a rant for another day.

What I'd be prioritizing in a 500 point game with a T9 cap is:
* Stuff that can score/do actions/screen for cheap and
* Stuff that's good into a variety of targets.

So with that in mind, things that spring to mind are:
* Windriders with shuriken cannons: cheap, guns that are good against pretty much everything, fast.
* Rangers and Scorpions: Both are good infiltrating action monkeys/speed bumps. Rangers don't have much in the way of offense, but they're super cheap and can potentially reaction move behind terrain at a clutch moment. Scorpions can scout to either be very safe turn 1 or else be all but guaranteed a charge turn 1 depending on whether you go first or second. Plus, they're just generally tough and reasonably killy.
* Dark Reapers: good against pretty much anything, especially with a Toughness cap of 9. Can shoot across the whole table. Will ignore some defensive gimmicks like cover or stealth. Might be worth considering the tempest launcher as this format likely favors infantry and taking some amount of cheap, disposable infantry that can hide and score.
* Hawks: Mobile for scoring. Lethal Hits en masse mean that their shooting is surprisingly good against both large and small targets. Their grenade special rule gives you some mortals to work with which can also be good into larger targets. Basically, they're a fast unit that *loves* shooting at the small stuff you're likely to face but is still surprisingly good vs the big stuff you *might* face.
* Warp Spiders: A 5-man squad isn't super expensive, but it *is* enough torrent weaponry to obliterate a squad and then grab a second squad if your opponent has the audacity to move within 12" of them.

You also might consider going the vehicle route. Our tanks are T9 whereas the tanks of a lot of other factions are T10+. So we can bring things like fire prisms or falcons (which will supercharge the offense of units riding inside them) to a format where people might not be planning to bring a ton of anti-tank. I feel like this good veer quickly into cheesy territory though, so heads up on that.

If you’re doing Further Reading on Eldar? Do keep in mind that when Aspects are being discussed, it’s often in the context of their Phoenix Lord tagging along.

Most Aspects get a real boost from such a pairing, so it can lead to unrealistic expectations where the Phoenix Lords aren’t allowed in lists.

My preferred way to play Eldar is mechanized and mounted, so am a bit biased. The Falcon is the model that made me start building my Eldar into an army.

Eldar transports are not just rhinos, who’s sole job is moving troops around. They are MBTs who happen to have some cargo room. They also serve the job of keeping the squishy little elves alive. Most Eldar infantry are not stable in normal battlefield conditions. If left exposed, they will turn from a solid into a fine mist. So keep them in the box until ready to use.

You won't be able to play Ynnari with the no-named character restrictions, but if that is what you want to work towards it would be worth going for units that would complement your final army. I'd probably go for some small units of aspect warriors, play the army as aspect host for now and do something like this:

Autarch (banshee blade, fusion gun, aspect of murder - attached to Scorpions)
5 Striking Scorpions (claw - infiltrate and bully)
5 Fire Dragons (exarch fusion gun - rapid ingress them into a ruin, then do a battle focus move on your turn to get a nice close shot on something valuable)
5 Dark Reapers (tempest launcher - hold home objective, firepower and indirect fire)
5 Warp Spiders (spinneret rifle - jump around scoring points)

Later on when you bulk out the list to be Ynnari, all of these things will still be useful. You could bulk out the Fire Dragons to 10 models, attach the Autarch and stick them in a Wave Serpent, and run them alongside Yvraine and Incubi in a Raider for a nice close quarters force.

 Insularum wrote:
You won't be able to play Ynnari with the no-named character restrictions,

Doesn't Ynnari also preclude aspects, or am I misremembering?

Breton wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
You won't be able to play Ynnari with the no-named character restrictions,

Doesn't Ynnari also preclude aspects, or am I misremembering?

No. Aspects are welcome among the ynnari ranks. You basically get access to everything from the craftworld side except named characters and the avatar. And then you also get wyches, kabalites, reavers, incubi, venoms, raiders, and a couple other things from the drukhari lineup.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
You won't be able to play Ynnari with the no-named character restrictions,

Doesn't Ynnari also preclude aspects, or am I misremembering?

No. Aspects are welcome among the ynnari ranks. You basically get access to everything from the craftworld side except named characters and the avatar. And then you also get wyches, kabalites, reavers, incubi, venoms, raiders, and a couple other things from the drukhari lineup.

Did they change that from original? I could swear there was something to do with Ynarri and Aspects somewhere.

Nope. No big changes. According to a warcom(?) post about the banshee squad, the aspect warriors without their helmets on were implied to be the "ynnari heads".

The "ynnari ban list" has been a little wobbly over the years with things like scourges falling off the acceptable list in the latest eldar codex, coven units being banned in (I think) every version, some named characters (I think) falling off the list at some point in the past. But aspect warriors of all stripes have always been playable as part of ynnari.

A lot of the weirdness with the "ynnari ban list" comes from the fact that according to their lore/books, they hang out with named characters like phoenix lords, Eldrad, and Lelith all the time and even have their own pseudo Avatar of Khaine, but all those units have been prevented from being included in ynnari armies for a while now.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

A lot of the weirdness with the "ynnari ban list" comes from the fact that according to their lore/books, they hang out with named characters like phoenix lords, Eldrad, and Lelith all the time and even have their own pseudo Avatar of Khaine, but all those units have been prevented from being included in ynnari armies for a while now.

Totally. I think in the Blood of the Phoenix campaign book there IS a mission where Jain, Lelith and Yvraine tag-team Shelaxi Helbane... But by decree of the Emperor himself, thou shalt have no named but the three!

Even worse for me as a Crusader is the requirement that one of the named Ynarri models MUST always be warlord. If I want Ynarri narratives, I'm forced to carry deadweight that can't grow or change over time. Why can't Yvraine ever delegate a 500 point Boarding Action in a backwater corner of the galactic map to a Heroic or Legendary Ynarri Succubus?

I do get some exclusions: Avatars of Khaine are the life force of their Craftworlds, and while there are Craftworld Ynarri, there are no Ynarri craftworlds. Haemonculi Covens are less straight forward, but in my mind, their raison d'etre does tend to blur the clean lines between life and death that Ynarri, as servants of a death god, would likely prefer. Even there though, I could see a certain kind of Haemonculus personality archetype that might want to be a harvester for a death god.

Crusade support for fringe flavours of Eldar like Harlequins and Ynarri is bowhere near as good as 9th, though I do like what they've done with the Guiding Fate system for mainstream Craftworlders. Even weirder, for some reason White Dwarf hasn't stepped in to fill the gaps. It surprised me after they've done such good work this edition extending Crusade options for GSC, Kroot and Sisters.