Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How do!

So here goes. Whilst somewhat controversial, things working because Orks believe they will has been memed into drivel. To the point low rent memes will claim an Ork can make a rock a pistol, just by belief. And from there the whole thing gets overstated, confusion ensues and the more interesting nitty gritty falls into the cracks.

It’s also from a single source. An Adeptus Mechanicus report. In a world of unreliable narrators, that source is particularly unreliable. After all, few of the Mechanicus even properly understand their own tech. The rest is reduced to ritual and superstition which may or may not be entirely necessary. There’s also the trait of a science denying conspiracy theorist. That anything they don’t personally understand must be A) Wrong B) A lie C) Inherently Unknowable.

Now, let’s consider this from our more rational minds. That you are I don’t know how something works, doesn’t make the answer Magic. I mean, I’m typing this on my iPad. I’ve a very rough understanding of how this device works, but if the internal gubbins were shown to me, I most likely couldn’t tell you what’s what. But I do know that its designers will have that information, and should I care to? I could learn much more.

The Mechanicus however strictly hordes information, and even then strictly rations it within its own ranks. So, we can’t trust that just because a given Adept can’t explain how a piece of Xenotech Works, that the answer is therefore essentially magic.

We’re also somewhat stymied by the report not telling us why the items apparently shouldn’t work. Is the trigger mechanism not obviously linked to the firing pin? Have they properly ruled out the rounds are set off by electrical impulse? And whilst on the surface it might seem overly exotic for Orks? This is a setting with psychically activated weapons and mechanisms, not to mention things like Mind Imuplse Units. Or gene coded palm scanner and that.

If the examine Adept had a suitably low opinion of Orks, did they discard such possibilities out of hand because “they’re primitive brutes”? We just don’t know, because it’s not exactly an in-depth piece.

But we also know Orks are a universally psychic species. Sure, only Weirdboyz are able to weaponise that. But all Orks have some latent psychic capability. And if it’s just moving the slide with the power of thought? It’s not actually belief, is it?

We then have other Orky beliefs. Like Blue being lucky, and Red making things Go Fasta. There again there seems to be some truth to it. Ork vehicles painted red do indeed appear to be faster. And seemingly, that applies even if an existing vehicle is later painted red.

Except…let’s consider the Orky Mek. They’re inveterate tinkerers. They can’t help it. And like all Orks, their knowledge is entirely instinctual. A lot of the time when working on a project, they don’t necessarily know what it is they’re building. Here, can we rule out that when your Speedsta, Trukk or Battlewagon is in for its super snazzy paintjob, that the Mek isn’t making other modifications?

Coming back to the real world, I’ll point you to F1 racing, and the frankly bonkers level of fine tuning that goes into it. In a sport where shaving even the merest fraction of a second off a lap time can win races, or squeezing just a tiny bit more downforce from a miniscule change to the spoiler’s precise angle will allow the driver to take any given corner slightly faster without skidding off? We can see clear, indisputable scientific evidence that squeezing a little more performance from a vehicle doesn’t necessitate making large changes.

Back to the Mek. Maybe he adds a little spit and polish. Makes sure your go-tubes have the best lube. That your wheel nuts are properly tightened etc. It’s not a conscious thing. Just their innate knowledge for Making Things helping to ensure that the freshly red vehicle is indeed fasta. Because it would be a poor advertisement for the Mek’s skills if you got that snazzy paintjob and your buggy then didn’t go even a wee bit fasta.

It could also be that any Ork driving a red vehicle drives that little bit more recklessly. Takes corners just a little bit sharper, and so again, gets a bit more performance out of it. And it all goes to reinforcing the belief that Red Wunz Go Fasta, without involving anything actually supernatural. But again, it could be a bit of both. The Ork’s determination to win the race, or get to the gits first might manifest as just a little extra downward force from the spoiler, allowing for better cornering, or offers even the tiniest bit of lift to offset the vehicle’s overall weight. No, not anti-grav, just offsetting it by even a few grams can help performance (see F1 car weight rules).

Personally, I favour the combination argument. That whilst no, an Ork cannot make a gun shaped solid piece of metal go bang, Orky engineering can and does take advantage of their innate psychic abilities. Perhaps the underlying power is so latent, the Ork wielding their psychically triggered shoota still need a regular trigger to pull, to channel their Orky Enthusiasm in the right way. Like Martial Arts noises apparently help channel Chi, depending on who you ask and what you believe. And so in a way, the trigger still does its job, not in a way a smelly Tech Monkey might anticipate or understand. It’s then ultimately just another, somewhat exotic, version of a MIU.

Right, what’s your take?

I definitely prefer the reality to be that Orks are uneducated, but not dumb and in their hubris, the Imperium cannot fathom such uncivilized creatures creating anything.

My preference is that Ork gestalt belief "facilitates" physics, improving performance and reliability.

So Ork belief alone cannot make a rock go boom, but it can help a gun fire without violently dismantling itself or push a vehicle to be somewhat faster because it painted red.

Ork technology works by itself, but it works better when it is within the Ork gestalt belief field.

That’s certainly possible.

We again know psychically activated weapons absolutely exist. The Imperium and Eldar both make use of such tech, albeit to different degrees.

And we know that items can be psychically infused or otherwise charged.

With Orks being ludicrously confident in large numbers, can we rule out that just as each Ork hypes up those around them, that the field of sheer Orkiness can permeate into weapons and Wargear? Not being properly channeled, it instead does add, perhaps temporarily, to robustness. Perhaps it can help a vehicle keep going for a while even though its engine is functionally destroyed.

There, maybe it’s less the Orks believing everything is fine, and more their own confidence in their sheer resilience, for want of a better word, rubs off on their gear? So just as a being shot in the gut is still going hurt, it’s not likely to kill an Ork, so that underlying confidence and surety in their own resilience can help hold a vehicle together where it really should’ve been coming apart. Again, temporarily. But long enough to hopefully get the Orks aboard into a fight, after which the condition of the vehicle doesn’t really matter.

The War of the Beast series and newer Codizes gave more clues that there's something about the Waaagh-energy and it's not completely made up by that 3rd edition magos.
However, I'm also more a fan of Orks having superior tech the Imperium doesn't understand, while also being supported by their psychic stuff. You know, like many things in newer 40K actually. . Current 40K has ambigous hints that "machine spirits" aren't always just superstition and has Sisters of Battle perform miracles. So, if it works for the Imperium, it'll work for the Orks even more with their united belief.

Yeah. I do like the Imperium associating a crude looking item to it therefore being entirely crude.

We know Orks are perfectly happy to blooter someone with their weapons. And the designs take that into account by necessity. Hence they tend to heavy and blocky, to be a more effective clubbing instrument.

But that doesn’t mean the rest of its workings are therefore, necessarily, crude. OK they can be, no doubt there. But one only has to look to Snazzguns, Kustom Blastas and Deffguns to see infantry (more or less!) sized weapons of sophistication.

Yes, Snazzguns and Deffguns are largely a bunch of other weapons welded together. But to get them stable enough for sustained shooting with all the barrels and comments at the same time? That is still a feat of engineering.

Going up a scale or three? Their Artillery is bonkers, utilising force fields, tractor beams and gravity in amusing ways. Things The Imperium barely understands, used in frankly flippant ways. Partly because they’re undoubtably effective, partly because they’re funny. And again, all cobbled together from seemingly crude parts. Far from uncommon and all.

Those technologies are also scaleable, as we know the underlying principles are applied to Gargants of all sizes, and even Space Hulks. And people still consider Orky Tech to be crude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to circle back to my comment about Conspriacy Theorist thinking, where anything they don’t understand is therefore beyond human understanding?

The Imperium’s attitude to Orks, that there is only crudeness is almost a take on Ancient Aliens theorists, where all too often it’s little more than “Europeans at the time couldn’t do it, therefore neither could anyone else and so it must’ve been an external agency”.

That because Orks don’t build things pretty, therefore they can only create basic, barely functional things. That due to a lack of aesthetic refinement, therefore there’s no level of refinement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another example of Orky Ingenuity? Great Gargant Bellygun firing a chain shot.

Ultimately, it’s two massive metal balls connected by a length of sturdy chain. And it’s intended to take down unshielded enemy titans by entangling their legs, causing them to fall over.

Now that is a crude weapon. Based on something used during the age of sail to knacker sails on enemy ships. But it is effective. One well placed shot and down your Titan goes. With the bonus that it’s then quite easily looted as a result when the Orks win the battle. No nasty reactor meltdown. Weapons and internals likely a bit bashed up, but nothing the Meks can’t work with.

Another choice of shot is the Clanger. Again, a crude thing, being a large cannonball. But fired with enough velocity to pile its way through multiple Voidshields. Thats a feat only the Squats of old matched with the Cyclops Cannon, which is an energy intensive constant beam weapon. Which is therefore the more resource efficient? The one that requires a carefully tended reactor, or “if we send this at them ded fast, den all their stupid shields will fall down”?

 Tyran wrote:
My preference is that Ork gestalt belief "facilitates" physics, improving performance and reliability.

So Ork belief alone cannot make a rock go boom, but it can help a gun fire without violently dismantling itself or push a vehicle to be somewhat faster because it painted red.

Ork technology works by itself, but it works better when it is within the Ork gestalt belief field.

This. I've seen it be likened to "reality grease".

It makes an Ork gun that would blow up 90% of the time because the fuel hose sits right below the backblast exhaust merely blow up 10% of the time instead. It makes a trukk that should not work because it's so crudely made (but still has all the components it needs) still function.

When it comes to “that seems an unwise engineering decision”, we again can’t rule out that the innate knowledge of a Mek hasn’t taken that into account.

Sure, some guns do just sort of blow up when they’re first used. But it must necessarily be relatively few across a given settlement. A specific Mek might be really bad for that, in which case they probably won’t live terribly long. But overall? Their tech does work, more or less. Might require more regular maintainance, but it’ll get through a given battle all the same.

Perhaps the Mek used particularly exotic materials for the hosing which gives it surprising resistance to burning out. Or there’s a field which keeps volatile elements separated despite them looking exposed to one another.

Nahh. I think we discussed this before even, but I think it's definitely incompetence and is more funny for it.

The Gargant in the Infinite and the Divine trying to sock Trazyn with its giant saw/claw/thing and tipping over as a result causing it to destroy itself in the sea was definitely just good old Ork funny. And Ork funny is good.

Ah, but that sounds more like driver/pilot error.

I mean, if I was an idiot driver and took a corner too fast, spun off and wound up parked in someone’s front room, that’s not a flaw in the car.

I am yet to read that book though, so I appreciate I don’t have the full context.

The book has a very good reputation for a reason. The orks feature fairly briefly and are depicted with plenty of good humour, but manage to also be very dangerous despite their hijinks. I thought it was perfect really.

 Tyran wrote:
My preference is that Ork gestalt belief "facilitates" physics, improving performance and reliability.

So Ork belief alone cannot make a rock go boom, but it can help a gun fire without violently dismantling itself or push a vehicle to be somewhat faster because it painted red.

Ork technology works by itself, but it works better when it is within the Ork gestalt belief field.

This is the way I see it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

It’s also from a single source. An Adeptus Mechanicus report. In a world of unreliable narrators, that source is particularly unreliable.

I think it's very much worth re-reading the original lore on this in the 3rd edition codex and what was said about this particular narrator, because doing so indicates that the whole idea of "Ork belief" is the exact opposite of the point that lore was trying to make.

It's a character who is:
- outright told to us by another character that he has a tendency to speculate too much
- Initially talks about the Orks and their tech way where he's explaining the rational reasons for what he's seen. Only to then, for no apparent reason, suddenly switch to "There's no rational explanation!" and contradict what he'd just said.
- His 'testing' is based on very brief, unverified, unconclusive observations. For example, he compares 2 Ork vehicles that are "nominally" the same - as in, not actually the same. He claims some of their weapons don't appear to work properly unless being used by an Ork, not all.
- Despite that he then based on nothing but conjecture goes "I've got a new theory!" and goes straight into speculation. He speculates that the gestalt field helps Ork tech work as it should.
- Not once in any of what was said did he suggest that their tech literally cannot function. His theory is not "it only works at all because of the field".
- Said character who is someone who, by his own admission, has underestimated Orks in the past. (but claims he won't make that mistake again)

And it's worth remembering that a theme of this codex is the idea that the Imperium thinks Orks aren't smart enough and underestimates them.

So it's a character who is said to be unreliable, whose speculating on something he doesn't actually know about, eagerly pushing a theory that revolves around underestimating Orks by claiming that can't actually do the things he's already said they can do; it's someone who doesn't actually know what he's talking about making the same mistake of underestimating Orks again. Fans saw that lore (or rather didn't, because no one reads the lore), completely took it out of its context or ignored it, and parroted his claims at face value with no thought at all, meaning they were doing the very same thing as the character and underestimating Orks.

Armageddon Ork Hunters use captured Ork guns and they work even in the hands of humans.


Anything the Adeptus Mechanicus says regarding technology, especially alien technology, is suspect and unreliable. It was also in the 3rd edition Necron Codex where a Tech Priest said it had been mathematically "proven" that gauss weaponry was impossible to make on a practical level. However the fact the Necrons are fielding them clearly shows it is not impossible.

The concept of an unreliable character account seems to be a concept that many readers just do not understand. Just because an in-universe character says something does not mean it is necessarily true.

Been doing a think and a further ponder on Orky Tech, and what we understand of how Ork society is self sufficient.

First we need to look at Oddboyz. Orks born with specialist knowledge which go on to become Doks, Meks, Runtherdz etc. And it seems pretty evident they manifest in a certain order, especially among smaller populations of Orks.

By whatever mechanism, as and when Ork society needs them, they turn up.

But Ork Tech? It could be similar, and based on purely intuitive, near instinctual understanding. Take for instance the Stompa and upwards. Not just land battleships more than capable of stomping gits, they’re mobile idols to the Orky Gods. And like all Orky inventions, can be built, given enough time and workers, from scrap just sort of lying around.

That perhaps raises the question of “why don’t they go for such mega weapons first?”. After all, every Mek has, somewhere in their bonce, the know-wots to make them.

But let’s consider their tactical deficiencies. Like all super heavies? They still need proper support for best results. A lone Stompa or Gargant absolutely can wreak havoc, but they’re incredibly vulnerable to infantry attacks, especially in built up areas.

So perhaps their development and deployment is, like the emergence of Oddboyz in the first place, tied to population density. As in, once you’ve enough Boyz and support vehicles to cover its advance and counter any swarming tactics, then the Mek gets the idea to build one. Because to do so ahead of such population density and weapon escalation isn’t actually all that efficient. Not only do many hands make lighter work of gathering sufficient scrap, but for smaller Tribes, being all speedy and mobile is the wise strategic choice. Stops them all getting perished whilst aboard a single chunky target.

I would argue that Oddboyz aren't any different to the geniuses of humanity.
The major difference is that Ork society evolves rapidly due to their accelerated biological lifespan.
Every Waaaagh starts as just Boyz, and as their society grows and advances (again in this rapid fashion) the Oddboyz go from Pigdoks and Runtherds, to Painboyz and Mekboyz. Throw in the fact that they're often thrown into environments where technology is already present, and bingo bongo what looks like savages magicking up teleporters is actually just an insanely rapid version of any other societies advancement.

Yet there’s no formal education. And the Big Mek can and will come up with entirely new technology. Stuff they’ve not seen before.

So the knowledge is definitely baked into them.

There does seem to be some level of apprenticeship though. Nascent Meks and Doks gravitate toward the influence of the more experienced ones. But we don’t seem to see any “and this is how you make a Shoota”. My take is they become dogsbodies to churn out the simpler stuff, freeing up the more senior Mek to make The Really Fun Stuff.

There does seem to be some level of apprenticeship though. Nascent Meks and Doks gravitate toward the influence of the more experienced ones. But we don’t seem to see any “and this is how you make a Shoota”. My take is they become dogsbodies to churn out the simpler stuff, freeing up the more senior Mek to make The Really Fun Stuff.

That's explicit in the Waaagh The Orks era – it's slaves and runts that do the vast bulk of mass production (bullets, shootas etc.), while the Meks concentrate on kustom jobs.

You'll know that lots about the orks is a black comedy mirror of 70s-era England. In the world of the late 70s, when most people tinkered with their cars, lots of the jokes would be more obvious. Car paint was expensive and tended to run to browns, oranges and greens – cheap pigments. Red was more exclusive and expensive. Was the red Porsche your boss drive faster than the brown Fiesta your mate did? Yes. Was that due to the paint? Of course not. It's due to the Porsche being made to a higher standard, and better maintained – but it's fun to wind your mate up about it.

Either way, it's not magic. Likewise, as Mentlegen324 notes the Magos from Codex Orks is explicitly made to be unreliable. It's a literary device to highlight the ignorance of the Imperium: we're meant to be laughing at (or sympathising with) his credulousness – and it's used as a fun, clever way to bring the reader into the universe and avoid 'word of god' exposition dumps.

Likewise, taken in the context of the time it was written, 'red ones go fasta' was a shorthand, fun way of explaining that ork tech was sturdy and ramshackle, but capable of surprising nuance.

+++

Of course, that's all very old background now, but as with all 40k stuff, very little is actually written out or superceded. Personally, I think it's much more interesting to have orks as straightforward rather than sophisticated, and for their tech to be perfectly practical – just with rather fewer safety measures than any human (even the Imperium!) would deem safe. It leans into the insanity of the 40k setting.

I’d never thought or realised what you said about Red Wunz Go Fasta. But being born in 1980, and remembering when fancier coloured (mmmmetallics!) cars first started appearing? It’s clear you’re on the money.

I still like the duality of Orks. They are simple and straightforward. But their society doesn’t just work, it thrives. And if they are descendants of the Krorks? Has outlasted all other in it effectiveness. And most understatedly? They’re having a great time.

The filler fluff about Eldar unfairly judging Orks as crude was my first hook into that. Because Uthan The Perverse was entirely correct.

Orks are an entirely alien mindset. But possess an entirely permissive society. There’s no crime as such, because there aren’t really any laws. If someone does something you don’t like? You either clobber them, or get beaten up trying to clobber them. If you’re short on teef, just smack someone else in the gob. They don’t really know angst or anxiety. Their prime motivator is to get into fights and win them if they’re ’ard enough. They don’t bother to reflect on morality, because within their society there’s just Orky and Unorky. Like a wholesome version of the Manosphere, where damned near every Greenskin is in consensus about what is and isn’t Orky.

Sure. Some sects walk a fine line. Blood Axes sneaking about is seen as questionable. But it’s still in the name of getting into a fight. And every Ork knows clobbering a git when they’re not looking isn’t just effective, but funny.

They know they’re tough compared to all other known species. They can survive deprivation that would kill others. And so when they work their slaves to death, it’s not out of malice, so much as thoughtlessness. It just doesn’t occur to them that if they went a bit easier, provided better rations the workforce might live longer.

And so they can’t really be described as evil, because they’re on an entirely different moral compass, where the needle is always pointing to “FIGHT”.

Which is why Yarrick and Ghaz are such an interesting dynamic. Ghaz is the ‘ardest Ork known. And Yarrick can give Ghaz and his lads a really, really, really Good Fight. And so simply squishing Yarrick can be seen as a waste of resources.

Ghaz might also be doing an Oddboy. Recognising that a cunning, highly competent strategist foe is a terrific way to give his Boyz lots of good fights. That winnows out the weak among them, and makes the ‘ard ‘Arder and ‘Arder and ‘Arder. Which is terrific maths to an Ork. Spesh for Ghaz, as it’s probably boring to be so ‘ard that no one even bothers trying to take you on.

So Yarrick helps provide Ghaz with ever more turbo nutter Orks, who in turn at least once in a while give someone Ghaz to duff up to continuously assert his authority.

I want to preface this by saying that I'm not arguing about canonicity in my post. I don't even really care what the canon is. I don't consider the GW fiction writer's version of the 40K universe any more valid than my own ideas.

I enjoyed the Anzion theory as a sort of joke at the Imperium's expense. I thought it was always pretty clear that the backwards tech priests didn't get Ork tech and were trying to explain it. They've always had super high tech in teleportation and force fields in particular, and the Tech Priests with their human-supremacy couldn't fathom how that could be possible.

This was coupled with a fun rule in the "red wunz go fasta" which was explicitly stated to be ambiguous as to the cause in the background of the time (back in 3rd edition).

I thought that was a funny rule and I enjoyed it.

Over time, these ideas got meme-fied and iterated on by fans. It began to be taken as gospel that that was how it worked for Orks.

For a long time on forums like this I would argue against it, presenting the evidence and arguments that it was just a theory from a tech priest.

As time has gone on, authors have taken this idea and run with it. The background psychic field is used as a narrative device more and more often. The orky belief stuff is taken more and more literally. It's probably official canon by now.

And not only that, but the idea of psychic fields influencing real-space has become really embedded in the 40K universe and fandom. It's not just Orks with a gestalt psychic field - it's humans too! Now humans all working together can generate a field too, often a field of fanatic faith, and perform psychic phenomena in realspace.

Machine Spirits have become actual, literal ghosts in the machine, warp entities possessing even the most mundane equipment.

I really can't describe how much I absolutely hate this development.

It used to be that interaction with the Warp was going to require a psyker. Even with the old ork gestalt field, you needed a Weirdboy around to actually harness it - the field was in the Warp, and the Weirdboy was the conduit that allowed that warp energy into realspace.

Now the barrier between the Warp and realspace is extremely porous. You don't need a psyker to act as the bridge, just enough minds all together can allow crossover.

I think this makes the setting unambiguously worse. I've thought it since they started doing it in 3e and it's gotten worse and worse with every edition.

It encourages lazy writing (and we can see that all over the Heresy series for example), it damages the feeling of 40K of having any kind of credibility in terms of a believable, consistent reality.

And it also changes something else - the Warp used to be emotion made manifest. The chaos gods were formed of raw emotion.

But the subtle shift has changed that - now it's also BELIEF made manifest. So if enough people in realspace believe a thing, it becomes real. This is awful really, because emotions are irrational and to a large extent reactionary and uncontrollable. Beliefs are conscious and can be directed and manipulated. It begins to break the metaphysics of the 40K universe when you do this. This is not to mention that this trope is all over fantasy fiction (the idea that gods need the belief of their worshippers to gain power) and it's boring, transactional and an absolute death knell to mystery or any sense of the divine. Just the economics of belief. Yuck.

Funnily enough, given that the creatives at GW are now mostly second or third generation fans of the material, this has in effect become how the 40K universe works as well - if enough fans believe something to be true for the setting, then it eventually will be true, as those fans enter the studio and start to write their own background.

Nothing is quite so alienating for me from this setting I've loved for thirty odd years than this kind of thing, but I think I need to admit defeat about this topic and drop out of discussions.

With you entirely, Da Boss – well said.

I disagree, the transactional nature of 40k metaphysics goes a long way to explain why 40k fundamentally sucks to live in. After all, there is nothing more (soul) crushing than the (soul) economy.

Moreover, it was kinda inevitable with the Chaos Gods and the God-Emperor around. The former are one of the most transactional divinities in fiction: get enough favour and you get to roll on the gatcha Chaos boon table. And the latter literally drinks ten thousand psykers smoothies a day, very Aztec of him (and the Aztec mythology was also very transactional, hence all the human sacrifice).

And transactional divinity also facilitates divine wars that keep the mortals relevant, that's partly the reason why they are so popular nowadays: you need a system to quantify Jesus vs Buddha.

Quantification is the death of any sense of mysticism. The Warp was better when it didn't have a system underpinning it that could be gamed - unknowable and completely alien beings with nothing resembling human motivation are far scarier than essentially gigantic pyramid schemers.

Edit: and it also means that basically every 40K race has a gestalt psychic field where what they believe becomes true, and given the ever-more porous barrier between the real and the warp, that true belief can impact the universe just as much as the Ork belief can.

See the terrible background about the Greater Good God and so on. Awful stuff.

While I agree with the logic regarding quantification vs mysticism, I just don't see how mysticism serves 40k, a setting that is primarily about war and war always has been extremely quantifiable.

This isn't a Lovecraftian setting in which the gods are beyond understanding, this is a setting in which the gods want you dead and death is fundamentally a very human and material fear.

Believing a rock is a pistol is peak meme-tier brain rot

The whole idea that Orks just wish piles of rubbish/rocks into functional stuff and it happens "cos magic/belief/whatever" strikes me as lame and bad. They should be able to build things, even if the exact mechanic of "how" they know to build X/Y/Z isn't really clear. Sure there aren't Ork universities doing engineering degrees etc but so what. Something in their genetic code means Mekboys appear who know this stuff.

The reality is that the Imperium doesn't really understand tech either. That's why they have to run around worrying about the boltgun's machine spirit and apply the right sacred unguents to keep it happy. Suffer not the tech heresy.

But equally... 40k is a physic world. The warp and so on is real. I don't really mind the idea that lots of Orks together create some degree of psychic energy due to Ork... physiology/spirituality/biology who knows. But I have an easier time imagining this empowering Weirdboys or giving orks unusual resilience - rather then most of the memes.

Orks for example can't just believe they can see through walls hard enough so they can. Thats stupid.

On belief defining reality? That’s a no from me. But I do think in 40K it can influence it.

Ultimately, that’s how the Chaos Gods maintain their position of power. From warp breaches and rituals by their followers etc, they can inflict their otherworldly will upon reality.

Typically, we see them use this influence to empower their followers and in doing so, create real space conditions conducive to their own insane aims,

Sisters of Battle are channeling something. And given their resistance to the Pariah Nexus it’s not massively clear what that something actually is. Well, not to me, and as ever I’m happy for people better read in that area to chip in and leave me wiser.

Crucially? Gork and Mork can and will do kinda the same. When a Waaagh! is brewing, the twin gods are seen to become restless, and poke and prod their children into action. They don’t necessarily get involved beyond that - self sufficiency is a defining Orky trait - but they will help ensure as many Orks as possible get caught up in the Waaaagh!

So, whilst it doesn’t they’ll directly get involved in a punch up, they will help ensure the Orks get to a Good Fight. Likewise they may aid in keeping it going, such as intervening where a Warboss or other well fighty Ork might otherwise perish to a distinctly Unorky demise. Or getting into a punch up of their own in the Warp should another god attempt to tip things in favour of their followers. Again, not by attacking the followers, but by jumping the god and giving them a good kicking.

 Tyran wrote:
My preference is that Ork gestalt belief "facilitates" physics, improving performance and reliability.

So Ork belief alone cannot make a rock go boom, but it can help a gun fire without violently dismantling itself or push a vehicle to be somewhat faster because it painted red.

Ork technology works by itself, but it works better when it is within the Ork gestalt belief field.

Pretty much this.

I've always felt they have some innate mechanical/technical ability to salvage bits and figure out how to join them together to build things. But... there's a psychic "glue" or "luck" at play here. You can't take a rock and turn it into a gun because a rock doesn't have a mechanical "gun-ness" to it, but if you slap together some kind of mechanism that could be a gun but is maybe not reliable and/or efficient, the psychic glue helps to make it a useful gun. Painting a rock red doesn't make a rock go faster (or move at all), but a red spray job over some kind of vehicle-like contraption will focus the psychic "luck" and make it go faster.

I still prefer my take, that the psychic field can’t entirely defy physics etc, but does allow an existing mechanism to function.

So in order for a gun to go bang? The ammo still needs to be able to feed into the chamber, and have some mechanism for setting off the ammo’s charge. But the psychic stuff can “fill in the blanks” where perhaps the trigger isn’t actually linked to the bolt/hammer.

On Red Wunz? It’s the innate knowledge manifesting as small changes compared to whatever might pass for a standard vehicle. Perhaps the armour plating is angled just so, improving the overall aerodynamics and handling. The bearings are made from a superior alloy more heat resistant or with less friction. Just tiny little modifications or differences, either at the time of building (in which case the owner then has it painted red to remind everyone it’s ded fast), or when the owner stumps up the teef for a snazzy red paintjob, the Mek makes the modifications, entirely unconsciously, whilst patching up any existing dings, dents and damage.

The legendary Reddest Red paint? It’s entirely possible it’s…ingredients (?) result in a Teflon type coating, reducing drag. Even if it’s filling in pits and dents from its own viscosity maybe it’s providing a smoother surface and again helping to reduce drag, allowing for improved overall performance. Perhaps the ingredients include elements used for anti-grav plating. Not enough to make the buggy all floaty, but enough to provide lift to offset its overall weight by a kilo or three, again allowing better speed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It could be a combination of such things.

We’ll likely never know, as for Orks? Who cares how it works. Not the owner. Probably not the Mek. It works, it goes fast and/or is ded Killy. That’s enough.