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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Yeah, Im not seeing the appeal here. Tzaangors already had a 5++ in regular Thousand Sons and mortal wound vulnerability wasn't exactly high on their list of weaknesses, so I dont know why thats supposed to be considered a big buff... nobody was in a particular rush to field Tzaangors in their Thousand Sons lists as it was, and it wasn't because they were hurt by mortal wounds or capped by needing to field Rubrics/Scarabs first, so for this to be viable it needs to give them a lot more than what they've shown us. The restriction on vehicles and daemons means their only heavy support choice is the Mutalith Vortex Beast and they can't take Daemon Princes (which is dumb since a well converted flying DP would have been a fluffy inclusion alongside bird-goatmen). Tzaangors themselves have no weapons with a S greater than 5 aside from the force staves on the shamans at S7, so you need to take MVBs for some more reliable oomph but you're realistically capped at only fielding 2 at a time because their silly rules mean that after 2 they suffer diminishing returns on their vortex ability. Your other options are to take SOTs or Rubrics for soulreaper cannons and Hellfyre Missiles to give yourself some sort of ranged heavy shooting capability (at which point, why even bother with this RoR vs standard Thousand Sons? Keep in mind the SOTs and Rubrics lose their 5+ invuls and thus are way more vulnerable than they usually are), and aside from that whatever plasma pistols, combi meltas, and the like you can pull out of the HQ slot. You almost need to field Rubrics and SOT so you can get additional psykers into the list, because you're somehow even more reliant on spamming psychic mortal wounds than a regular Thousand Sons list is - but you lost brotherhood of sorcerers and are limited to discipline of change powers, so you're marginally worse at casting than you would be otherwise. In short, its basically all of the downsides of Thousand Sons, cranked up to 11, basically without any upside to make up for it.

The only upside I can think of is chaos spawn with a pregame 6" move or whatever and a 5++(+), but you're asking those chaos spawn to do a lot of lifting to make up for all the other deficiencies and shortcomings. The Braychange is cute but I'm not sure how much resuscitating Goat Birdyani-men is going to make a difference to their utility. The only other use I can see for this is to try to spam as many HQs as possible as an "oops all psyker characters" army and only spend the points on Tzaangors to fill in the rest of your roster.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/04/11 16:41:15


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The best State-Texas

Yeah, the AOR is dead in the water. You'd need some really strong benefits to make up for losing vengeance and +1 to cast even in a fun fluffy list. It literally takes away everything you want to do as Tsons.

The only hope is at the end of the article, it hints of more in the book. If this is a supplement, that would be great. It could as well be crusade stuff or nothing at all with how past Warcom articles have gone.

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chaos0xomega wrote:
the SOTs and Rubrics lose their 5+ invuls


One slight positive, SOTs keep the 5++ because they have it anyway due to being Terminators.

Woohoo
/s
   
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

lol, true.

All they had to do was make Fatecaster Greatbows like S9 D2 or something and a list like this might actually be worth testing at least.

Actually would help TSons a lot if that was the case in the codex... >.>

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 Sasori wrote:
The only hope is at the end of the article, it hints of more in the book. If this is a supplement, that would be great. It could as well be crusade stuff or nothing at all with how past Warcom articles have gone.

I'm expecting a page in the book to bring Scarabs in line with Blightlords, removing ObSec and upping the points cost to 42.
   
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The Great State of New Jersey

yeah, because thats what Thousand Sons need... a nerf... -_-

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Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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The best State-Texas

Well, it looks like we'll be able to take a Dreadblade in a super heavy.

That will probably be worth experimenting with, once the CK dex is out.

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The Great State of New Jersey

well that might fix the armies lack of ranged AT, etc, not that I expect a single knight to push TSons into top tier, but it's a decently capable army already and knight support will fill some notable gaps.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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UK

 Sasori wrote:
Well, it looks like we'll be able to take a Dreadblade in a super heavy


That would be awesome. Where did you see that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/12 17:15:34


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 dreadblade wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
Well, it looks like we'll be able to take a Dreadblade in a super heavy


That would be awesome. Where did you see that?


It is in the Chaos Knights News leaks. That you can take a dreadblade without losing codex purity rules is a leaked rule, so I would also probably wait until confirmation until you buy a new knight if you don't already have one. I really like this because I think the new Chaos Knight models are rad but I don't want to start a whole Chaos Knight army, so I might get one to use with my TS/CSM. I also don't think that this will make TS top tier but it could be fun. This is certainly better news than the AoR rules. .
   
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UK

 xeen wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
Well, it looks like we'll be able to take a Dreadblade in a super heavy


That would be awesome. Where did you see that?


It is in the Chaos Knights News leaks. That you can take a dreadblade without losing codex purity rules is a leaked rule, so I would also probably wait until confirmation until you buy a new knight if you don't already have one. I really like this because I think the new Chaos Knight models are rad but I don't want to start a whole Chaos Knight army, so I might get one to use with my TS/CSM. I also don't think that this will make TS top tier but it could be fun. This is certainly better news than the AoR rules. .




I already have a Chaos Knights army and have been thinking about souping in a knight for a while.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/12 18:50:41


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Balance Dataslate is out, Armour of Contempt is such a huge gift to TSons, just in time for Chaos Knights to give a much needed ranged heavy shooting boost via dreadblades, and also one less reason to bother fielding Tzaangors.

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Claremont, ON

2+ saves and getting hit less by smart missiles on rubrics and terminators, yes please!

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chaos0xomega wrote:
Balance Dataslate is out, Armour of Contempt is such a huge gift to TSons, just in time for Chaos Knights to give a much needed ranged heavy shooting boost via dreadblades, and also one less reason to bother fielding Tzaangors.


I don't think we get the new buff? I mean, it says no one who has any special abilities which modify ap/saves already, right? Wouldn't All is Dust prevent it?

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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I don't think we get the new buff? I mean, it says no one who has any special abilities which modify ap/saves already, right? Wouldn't All is Dust prevent it?


That's what I thought at first, but it specifically mentions things that reduce AP, not bonus to saves. This appears to be a 'no gotchas' buff to Rubrics/Scarabs/Vehicles for TS. Hell, I'm even wondering about Land Raiders again.

That said, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop somewhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/14 15:39:22


"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
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Furious Raptor




TSons had a 4 week win rate of 40% in tournaments. This is a good buff, but remember those around TS in dumpster tier have also had a buff.

Those below us in 4WWR were DG/Sisters/CSM/Space Marines/Guard (all buffed).
   
Made in us
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The Great State of New Jersey

True, this buff didn't happen in a vacuum. TSons may have got a lot better, but so did a number of other factions so its not an automatic lift for us at the expense of all others, though I think the impact on TSons will be more disproportionate/pronounced than it will for many of the other factions owing to the other factors the army has going for it. As all those other factions, excepting Guard, are more or less benefiting from the same buff, I don't expect it to have much of an impact on TSons performance vs those armies - we will have a harder time (relatively speaking) winning vs Guard than we did before, but que sera, sera.

Also worth keeping in mind that while some of the weaker armies below us got buffed, a few of the armies above us got nerfed too. Custodes took a big hit, while Tau and Harlequins got a moderate adjustment (I still expect Harlequins to absolutely stomp despite their points increase, whereas I think Tau will be less impacted as they will likely adjust lists and playstyles a bit to better optimize against the changes). Will it get TSons from 40% to 50% WR? Maybe, maybe not, but it will definitely get us closer to 50% than we are now.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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chaos0xomega wrote:
Maybe, maybe not, but it will definitely get us closer to 50% than we are now.


The calculus has changed, for sure. Land Raider looks interesting now, at least worth a casual look. Soulreapers, Khopesh, Seer's Bane, all come out of it well it seems. Perhaps I won't be putting an army full of target dummies on the table for awhile, hard to say.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
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The Great State of New Jersey

For sure, I suddenly don't feel as dumb for buying a Land Raider Achilles for my TSons army lol

I *do* feel a bit dumb for buying the pair of Vindicator laser destroyers though. Right now I'm thinking that siege shield on the regular Vindicator gives them a bit of a boost over the laser destroyer variant.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

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Ironically, this change kind of solidifies the dead on arrival status for the AoR preview earlier this week. TS is about Rubrics, Scarabs, and Vehicles, chicken people have no place in the new order.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
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UK

The Tzaangors that came with Hexfire are still on the sprue. I ordered Ahriman, some Rubrics and a Chaos Land Raider instead.

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 dreadblade wrote:
The Tzaangors that came with Hexfire are still on the sprue. I ordered Ahriman, some Rubrics and a Chaos Land Raider instead.


when people order land raiders over playing tzaangors, you know something is fethed lol.

At least if the enlightened had the infantry keyword...
   
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The Great State of New Jersey

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Ironically, this change kind of solidifies the dead on arrival status for the AoR preview earlier this week. TS is about Rubrics, Scarabs, and Vehicles, chicken people have no place in the new order.


Remember - they could have done for Tzaangors what they did for 'nids with Crusher Stampede.

Be mad about it.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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chaos0xomega wrote:
Remember - they could have done for Tzaangors what they did for 'nids with Crusher Stampede.

Be mad about it.


Why? My chicken people are amazing in AoS. Solid contributors.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
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The Great State of New Jersey

We're not talking about AoS, we're talking about 40k.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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chaos0xomega wrote:
We're not talking about AoS, we're talking about 40k.


True, but the laundry list of things GW could have done with TS that would have been interesting, flavorful, different, and most importantly, not lazy, requires a very long post that nobody wants to read.

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chaos0xomega wrote:
 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Ironically, this change kind of solidifies the dead on arrival status for the AoR preview earlier this week. TS is about Rubrics, Scarabs, and Vehicles, chicken people have no place in the new order.


Remember - they could have done for Tzaangors what they did for 'nids with Crusher Stampede.

Be mad about it.


One day the bird boys will rise ! In the meantime, if someone is passing by Paris I'll endeavour to find them a new home
As for the balance patch, for me the big winner of our dex is the Hellbrute. -1D, 3+, 5++, ignore 1 AP. That's tanky !

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Hellbrute is bad imho

20 termis and 2 volkite nay be good as volkite is the obly weapon not affected by those changes and do mortal wounds

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Kebabcito wrote:
Hellbrute is bad imho

20 termis and 2 volkite nay be good as volkite is the obly weapon not affected by those changes and do mortal wounds


Yeah but blobs of Termies and the Forgeworld dreads were alredy the better choice
-1 AP is a much bigger leap for the Hellbrute or the humble Predator.

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The Great State of New Jersey

problem is that the contemptor and the termies also get the same benefit, so while it may have made the helbrute better it also made everything else better too.

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