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The problem with a Sakiel box is it will basically be 'LRL and 3 combi rifles'. That doesn't make a very exciting box, but Sakiels do seem to be popular. I guess they could spice it up with a nullifier model and one with a sidearm or melee weapon. But they're definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel concerning Tohaa. There's just not much left to release.

On the Clipsos... Eeeh. Not a huge fan. It's definitely not bad, but I was expecting another dynamic pose like the starter Clipsos. Absolutely love the Druze and Kum though. They'll be going in the collection for sure.

 -Loki- wrote:
The problem with a Sakiel box is it will basically be 'LRL and 3 combi rifles'. That doesn't make a very exciting box, but Sakiels do seem to be popular. I guess they could spice it up with a nullifier model and one with a sidearm or melee weapon. But they're definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel concerning Tohaa. There's just not much left to release.

There is a ton of stuff still to release. There's still no Vulkan Shotgun Ectros, no Boarding Shotgun or Combi Rifle Gao-Rael, no Combi Rifle Sakiels, etc.

On the Clipsos... Eeeh. Not a huge fan. It's definitely not bad, but I was expecting another dynamic pose like the starter Clipsos. Absolutely love the Druze and Kum though. They'll be going in the collection for sure.

Dynamic doesn't mean that the model needs to be acrobatic or in some absurd pose. It's not hard to imagine that the Clipsos Sniper is surveying an area for a shot or something of that nature.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am not certain I follow your logic, care to elaborate?

What is there to elaborate? Paradiso introduced Geckos (amazing TAG), Haris (Haqqislam), new unique fire teams (Steel Phalanx, Tohaa), marksman rifle (Ariadna) and new rather standard, yet interesting units. How can anyone claim it is fine to release units that do not offer anything to a player, but on the other hand have something that is simply game changing ? If we buy the pretence of "not currently compatible with the game", why was there a rush to release them at all ? It just blows my mind when people claim Corvus Belli is somehow infallible and always delivers. Was I imagining the debate on the new cast technique that was only few pages back? Am I imagining that no one is playing Paradiso missions, even though it is relatively fresh release?


PS: Accidentally clicked on Exalt. Apologies.

 Knight wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am not certain I follow your logic, care to elaborate?

What is there to elaborate? Paradiso introduced Geckos (amazing TAG)

Not really as amazing as some people like to suggest they are. Are they good? Certainly...but they're still pretty damn expensive points wise and pay out the nose for weapons that are primarily infantry stuff.

Haris (Haqqislam)

Haris existed before Paradiso.

new unique fire teams (Steel Phalanx, Tohaa)

Which all have some kind of downside. Steel Phalanx can only make their Link Teams with a character that has Enomotarchos. To give an example, the only group you are really going to be making Enomotarchos teams with are going to be Myrmidons since they can use Myrmidon Officers or the named characters(barring Atalanta, Diomedes, Achilles, and Penthesilea).

The Tohaa Triads can never be more than 3 models(the downside) but can be a mixture of units(ex: a Gao-Rael, Kamael, and Sakiel; three Gao-Raels or three Kamael or three Sakiel).

marksman rifle (Ariadna)

Which is also going to be making an appearance with new units for the upcoming book. Svalarheima and Tien Shan are pretty much guaranteed to be getting them for the Nisses and Gŭiláng unit types.

and new rather standard, yet interesting units.

Which primarily went to subfactions that were lacking anything really approaching "variety".

How can anyone claim it is fine to release units that do not offer anything to a player, but on the other hand have something that is simply game changing ? If we buy the pretence of "not currently compatible with the game", why was there a rush to release them at all?

Probably because Neoterra was a faction that basically had one or two "lists" that would get used. Bolts are new and primarily intended for that subfaction.

It just blows my mind when people claim Corvus Belli is somehow infallible and always delivers. Was I imagining the debate on the new cast technique that was only few pages back?

I think you are imagining some kind of debate on the "new cast technique". If you're referring to 3D sculpting etc...that's a different barrel of monkeys.

Am I imagining that no one is playing Paradiso missions, even though it is relatively fresh release?

Your meta might vary.

Well I still do not get you.

What issue you have with the releases? you seem to be quite happy about the units you described, or you mean something about the Bolts?

Then yes CB had to deliver another unit for Neotera, even if it is released not in its full potential, I would not ask you to buy the excuse, its not something I would try to sell to you, it is what it is, if you do not believe it, I am afraid, there is nothing I can do to persuade you other than say you it is as they say.

Now the different weapons size is indeed odd, Paradiso missions I do not get you? they are campaign system, while ITS is far better for stand alone games.

Haris existed before Paradiso.

Did it? Please, refresh my memory.

Which all have some kind of downside.

They do. Lack of infiltrators also hurt them. Tohaa have their weaknesses too. But Corvus introduced something new to the game, why Bolts or Bipandra cannot fall in the same reasoning? They have live data base for rules, I simply cannot buy the pretence it is because they aren't willing to offset the meta. Unless the expansion is bigger and more complex than I give them credit for.

Probably because Neoterra was a faction that basically had one or two "lists" that would get used. Bolts are new and primarily intended for that subfaction.

Though it remains a controversial issue, as Fusiliers do their role, only cheaper and could continue to do so until the new expansion. I'm aware your stance on them. Bipandra also fits in the MO.

Your meta might vary.

Apparently very much.

I agree with Knight here; there's no real use for Bolts how they're currently written. The missile launcher is fun, but any list that can take the FUS ML which is significantly cheaper and nearly as good.

I buy them to paint, since I like the models and play NCA, but I can't imagine actually fielding them as themselves until some significant change in their usefulness occurs.

 Knight wrote:

Haris existed before Paradiso.

Did it? Please, refresh my memory.

I was kinda/sorta right. It got introduced before Paradiso, but it was not until Paradiso that the rules were published in a book.

Which all have some kind of downside.

They do. Lack of infiltrators also hurt them. Tohaa have their weaknesses too. But Corvus introduced something new to the game, why Bolts or Bipandra cannot fall in the same reasoning? They have live data base for rules, I simply cannot buy the pretence it is because they aren't willing to offset the meta. Unless the expansion is bigger than I give them credit for.

It's not a question of the meta but also the core mechanics and ITS.

And the expansion is bigger than you're giving them credit for. This isn't Campaign Paradiso sized, it's Human Sphere sized.

Probably because Neoterra was a faction that basically had one or two "lists" that would get used. Bolts are new and primarily intended for that subfaction.

Though it remains a controversial issue, as Fusiliers do their role, only cheaper and could continue to do so until the new expansion. I'm aware your stance on them.

Fusiliers might do their role, but Fusiliers are also AVA 5 in Neoterra. while Bolts are AVA Total.

What you need to understand is that Corvus Belli's original design idea for the PanO Sectorials is that each of the Sectorials was going to have some kind of "unique Fusilier" type while Fusiliers were going to be secondary.
Auxilia were the original attempt at that...but clearly they did not work too well as an option.

Bipandra also fits in the MO.

Yeah, which is just bizarre.

TBH an added weapon option or two (along with new sculpts - sticking spec ops helmets on old fusiliers makes for an improvement and that's saying something!) would make auxilia very, very interesting.

Would it make them even better than they are now? Meh, I know they're pretty damn good as is but they only get so good up close - that flamebot is nasty. giving the aux a longer ranged weapon (preferably something with an 8" or even 12" minimum to their optimum range band) means either the gun is useful, or the flamebot - not both.
up close, a CR beats an HMG nine times out of ten, for example (and never mind an MSR!).

Bolts being MI with some goodies means they will inherently never be a FUS alternative - too expensive!
They're similar to Bagh-Mari, not FUS/AR.
outside of CA/Aleph I'm not ever taking a ~20pts ordermonkey...

Bolts hacker as a premium hacker? They have -6 BTS. Got that subpar PanO WIP but they should have the advantage in FtF.

Kamau (cheaper with WIP 13, rifle, 4-4) and NeoTerra has Deva with amazing WIP 15 and BTS -3 for few points more. Bolt hacker is likely to be a second pick, if you're going with something like Fusiliers, MSV deva and few Bolts with heavy weapons.

I am going to proxy them as Kamau until the new book.

 Knight wrote:
Unless the expansion is bigger and more complex than I give them credit for.

You should wait and see the results before you give your hypothetical credit.

CB never let us down, always rectified mistakes they did and as past experiences have shown, there are always reasons behind decisions.

I agree with Knight and Bolognesus

Bipandra and Bolt are for me a sad joke (without speeking of the bad overall quality of the bolt, that i've already spoken about)
rulewise they are here just to sit and wait for the next book
and this make no sense from an business point of view and from an gamedesigner point of view

not one min/maxed list will field them, maybe funlist, because you can like the mini but that all.
neotera need cheap fireteam to go with its expenssive toy (suiss guard - aquila - TAG) and cheap specialsit for objectives, for those two roles fusilliers are better
the only thing I could think of is the need of more than 5 troops, there i could fiels bolt after fusilliers but:
who play 2 group list in neoterra ? Who need a second fireteam in neoterra ?

About the recent news: it seems that Giraldez only paint the Kum riders and maybe some free hand (the clipsos free hand is fabulous) because the level is very low (druze and morat)

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 Knight wrote:
Unless the expansion is bigger and more complex than I give them credit for.

You should wait and see the results before you give your hypothetical credit.

CB never let us down, always rectified mistakes they did and as past experiences have shown, there are always reasons behind decisions.

I guess you'll need to define "us". I sure do not consider Bipandra and Bolts an example of a good practice. ITS is another case, yes, we're not a big community, however I much prefer to play rules someone else has written (based on Dire Foes missions). I think another part of community prefers YAMS. Inconsistency between models (mainly scales between old and new models, as well as the price on new Morat starter), bases (now, I consider it rather minor thing). I do love what CB is producing and they are still a company I hold in high regard, however there simply are areas where I find them making unneeded discord. I simply cannot stand still on certain issues I find them to be false, even, if "it's your (my) meta, not CB".

Yah as a new NeoTerra player; the bolts profile brings nothing but a tear down one's eye.
Storm, I think you may be fighting an uphill battle. The bolts in context to the options available for NeoTerra players is depressing given the quality of the models.
I for one (like many) made the decision to purchased them without hesitation based on the quality of the models alone, but it certainly doesn't excuse the profile given and the "you'll just have to wait and hope for better next time" treatment. I think let's be honest and call "a spade, a spade" it was a mistake on CB's part to release them without any meaningful purpose to the options already available to NeoTerra players. Fusiliers will always win out time and time again if you want to run a link team; hacker? the deva will certainly win out... it's just frustrating....

back to news and rumors any word on the 'big' april annoucement? (or was that the base change.......)

I fairly sure it wasn't the base change, and I don't think it is just the announcement of a partnership with Antenocitiis either.

Also, we'll find out this Saturday and Sunday...

The "Big April Announcement" is, as I've mentioned several times previously both here and on the official Infinity forums, this coming weekend.

We've known for awhile that the announcement is slated for "between the 26th and 28th", which is Saturday through next Monday.

In regards to the Bolts: The profile is fine. The simple fact is that the profile we got is the "sanitized current edition profile", not the profile for them in the next book...which is introducing/revamping mechanics.

We saw this same furor in regards to Link Teams with Human Sphere.

 Sangarn wrote:
I agree with Knight and Bolognesus

Bipandra and Bolt are for me a sad joke (without speeking of the bad overall quality of the bolt, that i've already spoken about)
rulewise they are here just to sit and wait for the next book
and this make no sense from an business point of view and from an gamedesigner point of view

not one min/maxed list will field them, maybe funlist, because you can like the mini but that all.
neotera need cheap fireteam to go with its expenssive toy (suiss guard - aquila - TAG) and cheap specialsit for objectives, for those two roles fusilliers are better
the only thing I could think of is the need of more than 5 troops, there i could fiels bolt after fusilliers but:
who play 2 group list in neoterra ? Who need a second fireteam in neoterra ?

About the recent news: it seems that Giraldez only paint the Kum riders and maybe some free hand (the clipsos free hand is fabulous) because the level is very low (druze and morat)

Waitaminutethere - I like the Bipandra profile fine. It's not as funky and exciting as some other Dire Foes but it has its uses. It's just Knight who has a fundamental problem with about everything PanO CB is doing, not me

As part of the group of people that play with friends, focusing on having some beers and having a good time with a bitchin' game and cool models, I always get a little head-scratchy over the rules frothing.

We're wargaming with (mostly) like-minded individuals. I think the system is cool, I have fun playing (more fun than I've had playing any other tabletop game), yet people react like they're changing the rules for F1 again.

Deep breaths kiddos, let us see what's gonna happen.

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
I agree with Knight and Bolognesus

Bipandra and Bolt are for me a sad joke (without speeking of the bad overall quality of the bolt, that i've already spoken about)
rulewise they are here just to sit and wait for the next book
and this make no sense from an business point of view and from an gamedesigner point of view

not one min/maxed list will field them, maybe funlist, because you can like the mini but that all.
neotera need cheap fireteam to go with its expenssive toy (suiss guard - aquila - TAG) and cheap specialsit for objectives, for those two roles fusilliers are better
the only thing I could think of is the need of more than 5 troops, there i could fiels bolt after fusilliers but:
who play 2 group list in neoterra ? Who need a second fireteam in neoterra ?

About the recent news: it seems that Giraldez only paint the Kum riders and maybe some free hand (the clipsos free hand is fabulous) because the level is very low (druze and morat)

Waitaminutethere - I like the Bipandra profile fine. It's not as funky and exciting as some other Dire Foes but it has its uses. It's just Knight who has a fundamental problem with about everything PanO CB is doing, not me

Oh, I like Bipandra's profile. Just drop the medikit and 0.5 SWC and you'll not hear any further complaints from me. And I do think more correct statement would be: "as of late", before Paradiso I don't think I have any complaints.

What meterial are these new vehicles going to cast in?

 Knight wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
I agree with Knight and Bolognesus

Bipandra and Bolt are for me a sad joke (without speeking of the bad overall quality of the bolt, that i've already spoken about)
rulewise they are here just to sit and wait for the next book
and this make no sense from an business point of view and from an gamedesigner point of view

not one min/maxed list will field them, maybe funlist, because you can like the mini but that all.
neotera need cheap fireteam to go with its expenssive toy (suiss guard - aquila - TAG) and cheap specialsit for objectives, for those two roles fusilliers are better
the only thing I could think of is the need of more than 5 troops, there i could fiels bolt after fusilliers but:
who play 2 group list in neoterra ? Who need a second fireteam in neoterra ?

About the recent news: it seems that Giraldez only paint the Kum riders and maybe some free hand (the clipsos free hand is fabulous) because the level is very low (druze and morat)

Waitaminutethere - I like the Bipandra profile fine. It's not as funky and exciting as some other Dire Foes but it has its uses. It's just Knight who has a fundamental problem with about everything PanO CB is doing, not me

Oh, I like Bipandra's profile. Just drop the medikit and 0.5 SWC and you'll not hear any further complaints from me. And I do think more correct statement would be: "as of late", before Paradiso I don't think I have any complaints.

Meh, the versatility in a link is actually worth the .5 SWC IMO. Especially in what is otherwise a rather SWC-light link team. I agree it's an anomaly, though.

@sing your life - I'm guessing they will probably be resin, the other Antenociti vehicle releases to this point have been.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
As part of the group of people that play with friends, focusing on having some beers and having a good time with a bitchin' game and cool models, I always get a little head-scratchy over the rules frothing.

We're wargaming with (mostly) like-minded individuals. I think the system is cool, I have fun playing (more fun than I've had playing any other tabletop game), yet people react like they're changing the rules for F1 again.

Deep breaths kiddos, let us see what's gonna happen.

I felt the same way when looking at a thread in the video games section. I'd been perfectly happy making my way through the game, humming to myself happily while I play and killing stuff. Suddenly I'm reading about 'tiered' builds, about the PVP meta-game, and the new massive imbalances and the like that have totally ruined the game - it's a level of complexity that I didn't even know existed! But, I think just because I don't want to go down into that level of complexity and balance, into the guts of how the game works, doesn't mean it doesn't exist - and I suppose it's something that Infinity has had it at some point(?!)

So, while I'm not really bothered about some of these things mentioned above, at the same time I think it's important that they get an airing if there are indeed fundamental dangers to how some people play the game.

*coughDarkSoulscough*

Yeah, that does make sense! That does add some perspective to me there... thanks.

 Knight wrote:
My perception also lead me to believe that overall people prefer to play YAMS, something I personally do not consider to be very fun and very monotone, yet concede that it is more balanced.

This is definitely not the case in the American northwest. ITS is the standard out here for pickup games. From what I read on forums, it has become so in most other places too, 2014 flaws and all.

YAMS has pretty much fallen by the wayside, probably because it's pretty monotone as you mention.

You know, if an Infinity community group really wants to do the rest of the player base a favor, publishing little packets of linked, themed missions with cool rules would be wonderful. The group up here in Seattle have talked about doing exactly this and are slowly approaching it (having recently playtested rules for mass-TAG combat, arena combat, bunker/boarding action combat, and some of deflatermouse's great missions). If anyone out there is looking for a way to make one's fellow Infinity nerds super happy, write and publish scenarios!

energongoodie wrote:
Antenocitis workshop are gearing up for their kickstarter. It is to fund Infinity civilian vehicles. They are also releasing 3 faction specific dropships. They are just finalising the design of these with Corvus Belli. Their terrain prototypes looked amazing and there is more of that to come.

Sorry if this has been addressed since, but has there been any idea of when this KS might hit?

Here is the thread for AW kickstarter stuff http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/491195.page

There may be news this week-end. There will be some sort of huge Infinity news anyway.

Awesome, cheers mate.

Subbed that one, may have to get a Nomad compatible dropship just because. If that's a thing, surely though.

Savnock wrote:From what I read on forums, it has become so in most other places too, 2014 flaws and all.

Interesting. Official forums? I still believe there's higher interest in YAMS. Though ITS varies, perhaps not surprising to find out that certain communities favour specific missions for their pick up. How do you guys in the US manage it? Are missions pre-determined, do you talk about the type of a ITS mission on the spot and then write a list?

The group up here in Seattle have talked about doing exactly this and are slowly approaching it (having recently playtested rules for mass-TAG combat, arena combat, bunker/boarding action combat, and some of deflatermouse's great missions). If anyone out there is looking for a way to make one's fellow Infinity nerds super happy, write and publish scenarios!

Mind dropping me scenarios, once they're all finished? Here, on the sub forum or PM, either way is fine. I'm mostly looking for new missions.