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Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Plano, Texas

Stolen from bigred, who stole it from "Shadow Slayer" on 40konline:


Post 1:
ok, so I now have had a handfull of friends (redshirts all) have all seen the trial Dex from a black shirt. Here is what was peiced together from many of them, Keep in mind I know alot of these things have been mentioned but I'm just calling them how I see them.

First, There is NO trait system for the eldar, but instead is alot of requirements in the individual units that determain its place in the entire list.

1: DireAvengers are a 1+ requirement of the list unless you use nothing but jetbikes in the troops slots.

2: Striking Scorpoins, Wraithguard, and selected other Aspect warriors (Those two are the only ones my friends could recall.) are elites choices by defalt. BUT, they become troop choices if you feild them in 10 man squads, and if you do not include an exarch in the Aspect squads. Otherwise they remain elites choices.

3: For every Wraithguard unit taken as a Troops choice, a Wraithlord may be taken as an elite choice. But may still be taken as Heavy support choices. (Gut feeling tells me this won't make it to the final Dex.)

And here are the things assides from organazational slots that I've heard about.

1: Wraithlords have gotten a slight point increase, and now has alot more customization options, includeing useing 2 Heavy weapons (Although you might have to drop the Dreadnaught CC weapon to do it, but not 100% on that.) The Wraith Sword alows it to re-roll wounds.

2: Pathfinders are gone entirely, but as a bonus, basic Rangers now get +2 to their cover saves, and get AP 1 on a 5 or 6 on the to hit roll. Minimum squad size went up to 5, and can go up to 10, Points supposedly stayed the same. (Not definate on that.) They are still troop choices.

3: Warwalkers and Warpspiders have both been moved to Fast Attack Choices.

4: Phonix lords are in the dex, and they have equipment options, but still count as special characters.

5: Striking Scorpions are Strength 3, but their Exarchs "Crushing Blow" power now gives the entire squad +1 Strength.

6: Alatoc gets a Farseer Special Character ( I assume from the upcomming campaign.) That gives the force a Stratagy Rateing of 4 if taken. (Don't know what else he does.)

I still need to pick my friend's brain for a bit to see some of my other questions can be awnsered. Enjoy guys.

Post 2:
1: All Eldar Vehicles remain at BS 3, but CTM now buffs them to BS 4, no more shoot and move Sad

2: Fire Prism's basic attack is STR 9, AP2, Heavy 3, with something special when you combine two of them, (If the sorce from my other rumors can be beleaved, combine the two to make a STR 10, AP1, Ordanance large template attack, But this has'nt been confirmed.)

3:Farseers are a 0-1 choice and may have a retinue of body guards. After purchacing 5 warlocks, you have the option of adding an additional Farseer to make a seer council, and if you have 7 warlocks, you may get an additional farseer. But I beleave it ends there. May not take Jetbike option if turned into a council, and Farseer's are still concidered independent Characters for purposes of CC, but may never leave the squad.

4: Warlocks come with Which blade + Shiriken pistol standard, and may be upgraded for other options, but have gotten a moderate point increase for the bundle.

5: Confirmed Star cannon is only Heavy 2 Sad

6: Friends did'nt see Spirit Stones on the Vehicle upgrades list so they might have been Axed, but they did'nt get the chance to see it in great detail.

Actualy, I don't think all these rumors are buffs. I think they are so far doing a good job of balancing the list. To me it seems like they are toneing down the Craftworld themed armys, while makeing alot of the units that had issues with them more for there money. But if all of these trends end up being true, Eldar will still be a very low model, low toughness army.. Iyadden does seem to still be nasty in Higher point games, but just the thought of picking up full 10 man wraith guard squads for each Extra Wraithlord + haveing a manditory Dire Avenger squad in addition to not being able to take Elite Aspects with Exarchs for contentions for Wraithlords. And if they wanted to be able to run up Wraithguard in Serpents, then Thats once again, another Elites choice that is competeing with the wraithlord.

It seems to me that the new dex will all be about checks and balances. You'll be able to have a beiltan like army, but you'll still only be able to feild the same amount of Exarchs on the Feild. (Which goes a bit more with the fluff concidering the Exarchs where supposed to be the masters of the shrine for the entire craftworld.). This will be crippleing to Scorpions that now need their Exarch to be STR 4. I can see Banshee's getting a bit more play becuase of this. And sure you could POSSIBLY feild 6 wraithlords if these rumors pan out to be true, but that means you have to shell out 1110 points alone on Wraithguard squads, assumeing the points on the WG stay the same.

And despite all the things that we have been hearing good about everything we are going to get, the only times I hear "Point Decrease" is when it comes to the Jetbikes, and the Singing Spear. Assides from that, all of the models seem to be staying the same points. The models just get buffs or nerfs to bring them more in line with the already existing points of the models. And with things still being Expensive point wise, its going to start getting realy pricy point wise to move around models like they are suggesting here.

Hearing the rumors one at a time it seems like its nothing but buffs, But once put back into the grand perspective of the entire thing it seems to me like its something that has been lacking through the complete eldar list since the beginning. And that is "Balance."

Post 3:
The only thing I heard about guardians was their abilaty to feild two weapon platforms is not true. And that the New weapon platform is going to require its crew to always stay 2 inches away from the gun at all times (Supposedly the new Gun Platform has the gunner physicaly connecting to the thing, and always comes with a large base similar to the IG gun teams.) And that the gun itself can actualy be hurt and destroyed. Supposedly it is treated as simply a T6 Model with a +3 save so you can no longer use it to screen guardians from assault. Assides from that I do not know anything. I don't even know if their shiriken cats are confirmed at 18 inches. My friends tryed to focus on the stuff thats hotly debated and anticipated. Not nessesarily what is pretty much the same, as they only had a limited time to look over the list. Beleave me the big question I wanted to know was weather 2 of the same Weapons on Warwalkers and WL's will be counted as Twin linked, or will they actualy be two seperate weapons. Sadly, I don't know the awnser to that yet, but I'm going to give them a bunch of questions to awnser for me if they get a chance to look over the list again.

Oh, and I forgot,

The dire avengers little shield bit that people have been talking about (And that has been seen in the concept work as well as in WD) is nothing more then a shild that gives a +5 cover save to the squad. So its just a conceil without haveing it count as any kind of psycic power by the looks of it.


Makes me wonder if keeping my Iyanden Army was such a good idea.

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Dominating Dominatrix






Piercing the heavens

OH MY GORK. 6 Wraithlords? SIX?! I hope they make them less tough. I can't wait for the new 'Dex but I always thought that T8 is to hard.
the change on the Rangers sounds nice, glad I bought my first box today
I was happy to field Scorpions as Troops, but only with S3 and no Exarch? I like Exarchs...
   
Made in ca
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






the starcannon part is correct
phoenix lords rumor is correct
it's not an aliatoc character.....
and most of the rest of that is just plain bunk!
=)
(I know you're just quoting what you read)

   
Made in us
Honored Helliarch on Hypex





very NW IL USA

the rumors get worse and worse. if i trusted them, i'd have already sold my eldar or would be after this post.

 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Illinois

Not that I play anymore, but I'll miss my uber elite pathfinders
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



California

Wolf13: the rumors get worse and worse. if i trusted them, i'd have already sold my eldar or would be after this post.

For every intelligent person who sells their eldar now, there will be 20 screaming kids waiting on ebay to scoop it back up.

Chuck

"I know what hearsay is, I do not know what a federal librarian is as I am not American and to me a librarian is a person who helps you find books and then returns them back to their shelves or stacks at night (so your credentials do not awe me, and do not impress me" -
IG fan 
   
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Madrak Ironhide







Hehe remove pathfinders, and release rangers.

Oh well.

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Infiltrating Broodlord





Mordheim/Germany

Sounds grrrreat! (Tony voice)

I look forward to a interesting, varied (is that a word) Codex where i can do all the stuff i want without axing my killing power.

I've waited almost 10 years to finally start eldar...i'm so hot!! (not literally)

Greets
Schepp himself

40k:
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Chicago

If these rumors are true, I'm selling all my GW stuff. but I'll wait for the codex to actually come out.

Do not use the CLEAR dice!

Dear Whiny Space Marine Players,
you get 3+ armor saves on all your troops (save scouts), Assault cannons, a huge assortment of vehicles and weapons, arguably one of the best if not THE best tank in the game, funny helmets, and a partrige in a pear tree.

suck it up, space marines. You're the emperor's chosen superhuman warriors. stop whining like a guardsmen and take it like a superman! 
   
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[DCM]
The Tyranny of Evil Men




Los Angeles

I don't know how much of this stuff I buy. The idea of a squad having to to be a certain number or not having an exarch affect it's spot in the force org chart just seems too weird to be real.

I only believe 2 things I've read in this post: Heavy 2 starcannon and more expensive Wraithlord. But that's because we already knew GW would change them as soon as people began the female dogging many moons ago.

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
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Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

I've been saying for a long time that 50% of Eldar players will be unhappy with the new codex. It's kind of inevitable when the existing codex mostly has either overly good units or very bad ones. If they "level" the units, it'll irritate newer players and make old-timers happy. If they leave things mostly as is, the reverse will happen. Personally, I'm expecting a balanced codex, which I think would be great if GW hadn't screwed the pooch with the SM codex. Everything else they've released for 4th ed. has been pretty balanced. 

Anyway, I'm gonna start Gorgon's Home for Wayward Eldar Armies for all the people who want to impulsively ditch theirs. I'll take those "albatross" armies off your hands for a very low price.

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Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

The most bothersome thing is that they are balancing the list by: (if the rumours are to be believed)

Scorpions made substandard compared to Banshees. For the same price, the issue was +1S +1A and 3+ vs Powerweapons, Strike First and Fleet. Now it'll be +1A and 3+ vs Powerweapons, Strike First and Fleet. I suppose Scorpions are too powerful and need to be nerfed.

Dire Avengers not a good enough choice? We'll fix by making them mandatory.

Starcannons too good? We'll make 'em Heavy 2 while making Shuriken Cannons rending. Never mind that you can take 2 of these on almost every Eldar vehicle except the fireprism.

I'll reserve final judgement until I've read the codex, but this smacks of boneheadedness.
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







I'll admit that the idea that numbers in a unit dictates which FOC it uses is a little strange at first, but after thinking about it I rather like it.  It is, however, GW admitting that there is min/maxing in the game.  I would imagine if it works out for the Eldar, the next Space Marine codex may have something in there where tactical squads of 5-7 men are Elites choices, and 8-10 men are Troops choices.  That would sort out the whole 5-man las/plas problem instantly.

- Oaka


   
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Regular Dakkanaut




Actualy, I don't think all these rumors are buffs
Nothing you mentioned are buffs, only equipment upgrades that cost points, but there were plenty of nerfs though. In my opinion some of the changes sound completely idiotic, especially Dire Avengers being mandatory and (mostly) BS3 Starcannons being Heavy 2. I was actually thinking of coming back to 40K with Eldar but of course now I won't.

Well, as Ed Maule once famously said: "Therion's from Finland, where comp does not exist. Where he's from the trash we're forced to field for a tournament would lose to a 12 year old." - bigchris1313 
   
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Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

First, these are only rumors. Who had that pic of the huge grain of salt?

We should also consider that they'll have a shiny new Dire Avengers boxed set to sell. So even if they force them on players by making them 1+, they'll still probably make the rules attractive.

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Clousseau





Wilmington DE

Posted By malfred on 07/12/2006 7:02 PM
Hehe remove pathfinders, and release rangers.

Oh well.

Yeah. My Alaitoc are sad. I hope they have some other rules that make them worthwhile, as I have a lot.   


Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide









Gotta love GIS.

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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
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Clousseau





Wilmington DE

Posted By gorgon on 07/14/2006 10:08 AM
First, these are only rumors. Who had that pic of the huge grain of salt?

We should also consider that they'll have a shiny new Dire Avengers boxed set to sell. So even if they force them on players by making them 1+, they'll still probably make the rules attractive.

You mean like they did with Wave Serpents?   

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

I can see it  now.  Stickbommaz are going to be 1+
   
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Posted By syr8766 on 07/14/2006 11:08 AM
Posted By gorgon on 07/14/2006 10:08 AM
First, these are only rumors. Who had that pic of the huge grain of salt?

We should also consider that they'll have a shiny new Dire Avengers boxed set to sell. So even if they force them on players by making them 1+, they'll still probably make the rules attractive.

You mean like they did with Wave Serpents?   



 

Umm. Actually the rumors imply that Waveserpents are getting unfixed holofields standard, instead of the useless field.   Which is a big boost.

Also, did some of you miss
a) Most models and units are staying the same price, just getting more abilities
b) The rumors are already being called into question.

Seriously.  Oh noes!  I possibly true rumor from a non clarified source on an internet message board has told me stuff that makes my army better in some ways and worse in others!  I'm never playing it again.
Grow up.

   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

You're not a very happy anarchist, Happy Anarchist. Nor are you particularly anarchic. That's too bad, because you should clearly be having more fun. I know I am. Clearly, you should enjoy a cool drink and relax.

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
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[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut






In da Mekshop

Most of this sounds perfectly okay to me. I hadn't heard the 10-strong Wraithguard ONLY as a troops choice, I had heard that Wraithguard in a Wave Serpent would be an Elites choice. Wonder if they are both true or if it's one of the other. I wouldn't think that 5 Wraithguard walking along would be worth an Elites choice by a long shot...

Now we know why Wraithguard went up to $15 US apiece... If that rumor is true.

I don't like the 1+ Dire Avenger thing, though. What if I want to have a wraith-construct army with guardian-only back-up? Can't do it with these rumors. Not so sure about that one.

Wow, 6 Wraithlords possible? eeeshh.... I like that if I take Wraithguard as a troops choice I can move the Wraithlord to the Elites choice, I can make my Iyanden-style army that still has Falcon and Fire Prism back-up.

I knew there was something up with the 2 different silhouettes of the Wraithlord that we'd seen. The one with 2 heavy weapons didn't have the sword, the one with the single heavy weapon had the sword. I think wraithlords are getting more customizable for sure.

-GrimTeef-
Proud mod of The-Waaagh forum and Vice-President of the Brian Nelson is a Sculpting God Club 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

This is only one set of rumors, some of which conflict with what others have reported. Overall I agree with gorgon, they are making a balanced eldar list in a world dominated by OTT marines. Still, there's some things that aren't as bad as people make them out to be (or could be only part of the story). My take on what's presented here:

1) Heavy 2 Starcannon. No surprise here. It is rumored to be cheaper now to compensate (in fact most all weapons are cheaper and many have better stats, no rending shuriken cannons though). Also note that BS4 vehciles aren't as nerfed by this (5/9 MEq kills vesus the old 5/4 kills) but guardian starcannons and warwalkers took a big hit.

2) 1+ DA. I'm not really surprised by this but this may be dependent on your HQ. Like say Autarch requires DA and Farseer requires Defenders.

3) No exarchs for troop aspects. Banshees and firedragons could care less (assuming stats are the same). Scorps are still good as elites even if they'd be worthless as a troop choice. This isn't as good as the old biel-tan list but it shouldn't be surprising. All the good 3ed armies are being kicked in the jimmy (look at Black Templars and nids). Still, the only armies that really suffer are the ones that went heavy on a certain aspect (especially one that won't have an option to be fielded as troops).

4) Farseer 0-1. Lameness compared to the 4 librarians marines can take but seer council is still an option. However, considering the rumored abilities of the farseer, I'm not surprised if they are limited. Seems GW is learning from their mistakes (lucky for marines, crappy for everyone else).

5) Overall craftworlds got nerfed. Not surprising considering what GW did to the IA marines. Heck whose surprised that GW would remove the disruption chart, the 30 viper army and the infinite seer council?

   
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[DCM]
The Tyranny of Evil Men




Los Angeles

Seems GW is learning from their mistakes (lucky for marines, crappy for everyone else).


You think it was luck that kept Marines OTT? No, that was careful planning.

Overall craftworlds got nerfed. Not surprising considering what GW did to the IA marines. Heck whose surprised that GW would remove the disruption chart, the 30 viper army and the infinite seer council?


Yes, and my overpowered Iyanden force also needed a good whack with the GW Nerf Stick.

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Chicago

as said elegantly by someones sig

"Paper is fine, Nerf Rock!" - Scissors

Do not use the CLEAR dice!

Dear Whiny Space Marine Players,
you get 3+ armor saves on all your troops (save scouts), Assault cannons, a huge assortment of vehicles and weapons, arguably one of the best if not THE best tank in the game, funny helmets, and a partrige in a pear tree.

suck it up, space marines. You're the emperor's chosen superhuman warriors. stop whining like a guardsmen and take it like a superman! 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




1) Heavy 2 Starcannon. No surprise here.
Definately a huge surprise to me. Who would want a BS3 low-strength Plasma Gun? Even Heavy 4 Starcannons make more sense than Heavy 2 ones. Seriously. All in all the same old pathetic GW rule applies: Whatever that was good or even half-decent in the previous edition, totally sucks now, so that even if you actually had an army, you need to buy a new one.

Well, as Ed Maule once famously said: "Therion's from Finland, where comp does not exist. Where he's from the trash we're forced to field for a tournament would lose to a 12 year old." - bigchris1313 
   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





Mordheim/Germany

Since when has the plasma gun 36" range and is mountable on fast flying skimmers?
(and is probably cheaper...)

Don't compare guns in different army like that... let's face it, the starcannon was a no brainer choice, even more than the assault cannon today.
The Shuriken cannon get's better (relatively) and brightlances, Scatter lasers(for the light infantery hunting) and maybe even missle launchers will be used more.
Heck, even the Reaper launchers could be more effective now without the overshadowing effect of the starcannon.

I just want an balanced codex, no tricks...

Greets
Schepp himself

40k:
Fantasy: Skaven, Vampires  
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




I rather take an unbalanced codex that has one useful heavy weapon in a competitive environment, than a balanced codex that absolutely sucks. But please explain to me why Dire Avengers are 1+? The whole concept of the unit is flawed and force-feeding s**t to people is going to make a lot of players unhappy. Have you seen anyone field footslogging Space Marine units with nothing but Bolters and a Veteran Sergeant armed with a Power Sword? No because those units wouldn't be effective, although they would still be better than Dire Avengers because of T4 and 3+ armour save.
Don't compare guns in different army like that... let's face it, the starcannon was a no brainer choice, even more than the assault cannon today
What the heck are you talking about? A BS4 Assault Cannon kills more of anything than a BS3 heavy 3 Starcannon does, and heavy 2 Starcannons are plein useless.

Well, as Ed Maule once famously said: "Therion's from Finland, where comp does not exist. Where he's from the trash we're forced to field for a tournament would lose to a 12 year old." - bigchris1313 
   
Made in de
Dominating Dominatrix






Piercing the heavens

I'm quite happy with the removing of the 40 men Seer Council. there's a difference between nice background armys and powergamings a.m.a.p.

what's OTT?

and I haven't played Eldar in 3rd, but I'm actually quite happy that other heavy weapons are worth it too now, since Starcannons are "nerfed"
   
Made in eu
Infiltrating Broodlord





Mordheim/Germany

OTT = over the top...it's just...well over the top, you'll get it.

We should just stop camparing any gun with the assault cannon, because, let's face it, the assault cannon will own it.
But the eldar list was often just a starcannon fest and even though it was effective, wasn't at all fluffy or stylish,imo.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. the wording on my example was a bit...poor...the assaultcannon is more effective against a wider range of targets.

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