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AlexHolker wrote:Blunt-Claw: I've got no problem with female nudity in general, but mangled and crucified on a naked ratman's standard? Ew.

I think that we're beginning to see the fruition that the Banelegions game will be proper dark fantasy. Less sterile Warhammer/Lord of the Rings and more Game of Thrones-esque.

Nice models one and all. Now, when are we going to see Tundaar?

Re; Blunt-Claw - she isn't crucified nor is the sculpt a 'nudity' thang (not that we're against such things).

Look at the pots and pans, the cleaver. The lady is Blunt-Claw's lunch, Blunt-Claw is a glutton (though he's a keen cook!) and the body is his after-scrap meal.
Dinner doesn't wear clothes, neither is Blunt-Claw too fussed about the sex of his dinner. We've had naked skinned men in our Vras line (Scar-Scath's loincloth is a naked, skinned male man) -

The Vras are equal opportunities killers, eaters and wot not.

And yes, the DarkLands range/game is dark fantasy and will feature adult imagery - It won't be a pleasant place to live.

I don't like that DarkLands is something like the NSFW/Fetish/Snuff version of Warhammer, trying to strech the limits of how much perversity is acceptable in tabletop gaming. Guess it is time to add NSFW tags to this thread then.

AAnchuth: Nice to see a beast shaman not carrying his entire knick-nack shelf on his person at all times. Too bad I'm done with my beastman army.

I love Mjagnir, but I'm a little worried it looks like the haft of his hammer bends.

While Kadamastar is just a spiky croc, it's so well sculpted and naturalistically posed I think it is worth every penny. At least to anyone who needs a spiky crocodile.

Svrill is interesting. The way the head is posed, I can't tell if it's not looking at it's scroll or just looking at the scroll the way a snake-person would. I like the robes. I don't really want the model, but I like that it exists.

Blunt-Claw: To be honest I didn't notice the woman's torso until someone pointed it out, but now I can't stop seeing it. I think this crosses a line- but not the nudity line a lot of people may think I'm going for.

It reminds me of when I tried to watch Spartacus, the Pit episode, when the gladiators are brawling in an underground arena decorated with naked womens' torsos wrapped in barbed wire. Both works are trying to shock, but in a way that breaks my suspension of disbelief. Because I have trouble believing that a rat-man warlord spends his free time in "working with torsos" arts and crafts classes to get good at taking the bones out of arms but leaving them in the torso just because tormented boobies are going to bother people. I could possibly accept a vampire queen doing this to one of her rivals, but I think it's a poor design choice in general.

On the bright side though, we have finally determined what it takes to distract gamers from whining about his exposed balls!

The second sword maiden looks way better than the first

I personally don't mind the concept of the NSFW tabletop game, I see a lot of that done on the indy circut anyways.

That being said. I like svrill and will pick him up at some point.

Ohh so it's ok to have guys skinned and displayed but as soon as a pair of bewbs is streched on a flagpole it's bad.
That's actually very sexist.

Personally i think the bottom of her torso isnt very good.

Id much rather see some properly torn skin and entrails hanging out, looks a bit sudden atm. Some bitemarks in the stomach to suggest the rat bit her in half would be aceas well.

Maybe i'll get him and do it myself

HoverBoy wrote:Ohh so it's ok to have guys skinned and displayed but as soon as a pair of bewbs is streched on a flagpole it's bad.
That's actually very sexist.

Actually, I just hadn't seen that one the first time around.

AlexHolker wrote:Kadamastar: It's a crocodile. I think I'd just go looking for something like this and add my own spikes.

Blunt-Claw: I've got no problem with female nudity in general, but mangled and crucified on a naked ratman's standard? Ew.

The important thing, apparently, is that the woman's multilated corpse retains huge, pendulous, stripper breasts. Because we wouldn't want our mutilated women to not appear sexy.


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Maelstrom Games wrote:Re; Blunt-Claw - she isn't crucified nor is the sculpt a 'nudity' thang (not that we're against such things).

Look at the pots and pans, the cleaver. The lady is Blunt-Claw's lunch, Blunt-Claw is a glutton (though he's a keen cook!) and the body is his after-scrap meal.
Dinner doesn't wear clothes, neither is Blunt-Claw too fussed about the sex of his dinner. We've had naked skinned men in our Vras line (Scar-Scath's loincloth is a naked, skinned male man) -

Nice try, but it doesn't gel. If she was just lunch, and not fetishistic, she would just be hanging there - impaled or dismembered. Not crucified like a banner. Also, her arms (perfectly deboned, apparently) are way too long. They're about twice as long as they should be when you take the spiral-wrapping into account.

I'm notsomuch offended by the content in terms of male/female carcass. I'm offended by the teenaged-mentality fetishistic nature (LOOK BEWBS LOL) of the figure and the otherwise poor and unrealistic execution of that element. It's actually a decent figure aside from that crappy and poorly-justified standard.

Meh, thats just a side effect of the scale. You want them to be visible from gaming length away (couple of feet) otherwise it may as well just be a man.

HoverBoy wrote:Ohh so it's ok to have guys skinned and displayed but as soon as a pair of bewbs is streched on a flagpole it's bad.
That's actually very sexist.

scipio.au wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:Kadamastar: It's a crocodile. I think I'd just go looking for something like this and add my own spikes.

Blunt-Claw: I've got no problem with female nudity in general, but mangled and crucified on a naked ratman's standard? Ew.

The important thing, apparently, is that the woman's multilated corpse retains huge, pendulous, stripper breasts. Because we wouldn't want our mutilated women to not appear sexy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maelstrom Games wrote:Re; Blunt-Claw - she isn't crucified nor is the sculpt a 'nudity' thang (not that we're against such things).

Look at the pots and pans, the cleaver. The lady is Blunt-Claw's lunch, Blunt-Claw is a glutton (though he's a keen cook!) and the body is his after-scrap meal.
Dinner doesn't wear clothes, neither is Blunt-Claw too fussed about the sex of his dinner. We've had naked skinned men in our Vras line (Scar-Scath's loincloth is a naked, skinned male man) -

Nice try, but it doesn't gel. If she was just lunch, and not fetishistic, she would just be hanging there - impaled or dismembered. Not crucified like a banner. Also, her arms (perfectly deboned, apparently) are way too long. They're about twice as long as they should be when you take the spiral-wrapping into account.

I'm notsomuch offended by the content in terms of male/female carcass. I'm offended by the teenaged-mentality fetishistic nature (LOOK BEWBS LOL) of the figure and the otherwise poor and unrealistic execution of that element. It's actually a decent figure aside from that crappy and poorly-justified standard.

I agree with where you're going, but calling those "huge, pendulous, stripper breasts" seems a bit odd. I wouldn't say the proportions are that bad, it's the presentation.

In other words, no, I cannot accept that she is just the rat-man's lunch. When I pack myself fried chicken in my lunch box, I don't arrange it on a banner on my back so all the chickens of the world can see me devouring one of their hens. I don't magically remove the wing bones and use the remaining wing skin and cartilage as a framing device. And I don't start eating from the bottom-up so I can leave the head and the moist, succulent chicken breasts on display to shock all the roosters.

There is no way to get around this appearing to be an inefficient construction devised purely to shock.

Now maybe in Maelstrom's game world the rat-men have a keen knowledge of human psychology and expertly know how to cruelly exploit viewers' emotions. But in the rat-men I am familiar with from fiction, they generally have an alien mind and an alien culture that comes from essentially being an alien species to humanity. What makes rat-men work as a fantasy trope is that they're a chittering horde of creatures who don't think like us, and moreover don't care about trying to think like us. Because there are so many of them and so few of us.

If you want to have the naked-woman-as-takeaway-lunch motif on a rat-man, I'd recommend having the woman just kind of stuffed in a sack on his back- head rolled to the side and perhaps a bit of exposed boob (perhaps even with a torn-up shoulder to show he's had a bite to eat before the battle and drive the point home that to him, this isn't a once-beautiful maiden. This is a piece of meat.) Then you'd have a mini that conveys what you claim it conveys.

OTOH, if you want to go with the crucified/disemboweled-nude-woman-on-display angle, it needs to be on a creature that understands human psychology. Perhaps a vampire (I can easily picture a vampire queen doing this to as a warning to mortal women not to try and step to her game) or some more sophisticated creature.

The combination as it is just makes me think it wasn't thought through very well. It makes me think whoever designed it was on a mission to shock first and to design a functioning character concept second. I don't mind shocking content, and I don't mind nudity. But in this case, the shocking content IMHO undermines the overall design of the piece. Which is unfortunate because usually Maelstrom doesn't make that kind of mistake.

Amazing art (although I would prefer a four legged one).

Any news or release date for the hydra?

I've seen my share of topless women, and those are stripper/porn sized. They're that size for the same reason the other recent female figure has breasts shaped like giant footballs, and a visible labia instead of pubic hair, not because "we're anatomically correct" but to appeal to the "phwoar" crowd. I look forward to their next barbarian having a huge, erect, uncovered phallus. It's the difference between Mature content that is actually mature and "Adult - hur hur" content.

I can also let a certain amount slide if it's well done. Raging Heroes' not-witch elves are really nice sculpts, while bewbgirl isn't. The Skaven we're discussing here is an otherwise nice model with a stereotypical 16-year-old boy's idea of "adult content" on his banner pole. Sorry, his "lunch rack".

I agree with everything else you said.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go yell at my wife for not deboning my pork chops last night.

JOHIRA wrote:
I agree with where you're going, but calling those "huge, pendulous, stripper breasts" seems a bit odd. I wouldn't say the proportions are that bad, it's the presentation.

In other words, no, I cannot accept that she is just the rat-man's lunch. When I pack myself fried chicken in my lunch box, I don't arrange it on a banner on my back so all the chickens of the world can see me devouring one of their hens. I don't magically remove the wing bones and use the remaining wing skin and cartilage as a framing device. And I don't start eating from the bottom-up so I can leave the head and the moist, succulent chicken breasts on display to shock all the roosters.

There is no way to get around this appearing to be an inefficient construction devised purely to shock.

Now maybe in Maelstrom's game world the rat-men have a keen knowledge of human psychology and expertly know how to cruelly exploit viewers' emotions. But in the rat-men I am familiar with from fiction, they generally have an alien mind and an alien culture that comes from essentially being an alien species to humanity. What makes rat-men work as a fantasy trope is that they're a chittering horde of creatures who don't think like us, and moreover don't care about trying to think like us. Because there are so many of them and so few of us.

If you want to have the naked-woman-as-takeaway-lunch motif on a rat-man, I'd recommend having the woman just kind of stuffed in a sack on his back- head rolled to the side and perhaps a bit of exposed boob (perhaps even with a torn-up shoulder to show he's had a bite to eat before the battle and drive the point home that to him, this isn't a once-beautiful maiden. This is a piece of meat.) Then you'd have a mini that conveys what you claim it conveys.

OTOH, if you want to go with the crucified/disemboweled-nude-woman-on-display angle, it needs to be on a creature that understands human psychology. Perhaps a vampire (I can easily picture a vampire queen doing this to as a warning to mortal women not to try and step to her game) or some more sophisticated creature.

The combination as it is just makes me think it wasn't thought through very well. It makes me think whoever designed it was on a mission to shock first and to design a functioning character concept second. I don't mind shocking content, and I don't mind nudity. But in this case, the shocking content IMHO undermines the overall design of the piece. Which is unfortunate because usually Maelstrom doesn't make that kind of mistake.

Interesting.
Every time Maelstrom produce a mini with some NSFW-detail there are hundreds of posts opposing/defending this - creating exactly the hype wanted.
If you want them to stop adding balls and boobs, just ignore it.

As for the mutant rat cook, I think is one of the best in the genre (and certainly one of the best Bane-sculpts) - and might even buy it.
The racked ex-lady with the big rack might then become a banner pole for my Dark Elves.

Well, it's discussion, but it's not quite hype. I also have no problem with actual balls or boobs when it's done in a sensible way or works in context. I ordered both packs of the RH not-witch-elves (that's 20 boobs) and even ordered a bunch of Bane Legion and AoW figures during the recent Malestrom sale which got cut shot by 2 weeks, some of which feature skimpy outfits and even a few nipples, if I recall correctly.

I've also said that the actual Skaven figure we're discussing is pretty good, sans his tit-standard.

It's not about balls and boobs, it's about don't be stupid.

It's at the whim of the company that gets sculpted, whatever that may be, they tend to put out some damn good looking models.

Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but if that's the case, there's someone over in the PM section doing a My Little Pony Space Marine Army that I'm sure they'll love.

I kid, I kid.

I don't really mind it, I for one was always a little frustrated by Slaanesh in the Games Workshop world. They're supposed to be real horrorshow debauched freaks... and I've been to concerts that look more like Slaaneshi cults than what the models project.

If you're gonna claim to be Grimdark, I think you gotta wear an R label, not PG-13.

But that's just my little opinion. I think the section is for Maelstrom's releases and for people to see what they're working on, and to me, they have some seriously cool models.

general bitching about the flayed woman on a rat monsters pole

sooo......these guys are fine by you lot but as soon as something has boobs it goes too far -___-






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:It's at the whim of the company that gets sculpted, whatever that may be, they tend to put out some damn good looking models.

Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but if that's the case, there's someone over in the PM section doing a My Little Pony Space Marine Army that I'm sure they'll love.

for the record I like both :3

DPBellathrom wrote:

general bitching about the flayed woman on a rat monsters pole

Spoiler:

sooo......these guys are fine by you lot but as soon as something has boobs it goes too far -___-

That's not even remotely the issue from the way I've been reading the complaints. It's not a case of "Flayed skin is unacceptable when it has boobs!".

I can't speak for anyone but myself naturally, but the major issue for me on this piece is that the woman in question's breasts are unnaturally large, looking like an adult film starlet rather than those of a real human being.
Maelstrom's models, for all but one or two examples, have been fantastic pieces in both the quality of the sculpt and a measure of realism for the sculpts they're portraying--even if it's something like a giant snakeman.

Kanluwen wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:

general bitching about the flayed woman on a rat monsters pole

Spoiler:

sooo......these guys are fine by you lot but as soon as something has boobs it goes too far -___-

That's not even remotely the issue from the way I've been reading the complaints. It's not a case of "Flayed skin is unacceptable when it has boobs!".

I can't speak for anyone but myself naturally, but the major issue for me on this piece is that the woman in question's breasts are unnaturally large, looking like an adult film starlet rather than those of a real human being.
Maelstrom's models, for all but one or two examples, have been fantastic pieces in both the quality of the sculpt and a measure of realism for the sculpts they're portraying--even if it's something like a giant snakeman.

this old argument again :3 oh......

I’m starting to think that in addition to Draigos law we also need one for boobs and models, such as “as the number of posts on a NSFW thread increases so does the level of posts against the size of the models breasts”

wait......cant people who dont like the boobs just remove blunt claws lunch rack?

DPBellathrom wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:

general bitching about the flayed woman on a rat monsters pole

Spoiler:

sooo......these guys are fine by you lot but as soon as something has boobs it goes too far -___-

That's not even remotely the issue from the way I've been reading the complaints. It's not a case of "Flayed skin is unacceptable when it has boobs!".

I can't speak for anyone but myself naturally, but the major issue for me on this piece is that the woman in question's breasts are unnaturally large, looking like an adult film starlet rather than those of a real human being.
Maelstrom's models, for all but one or two examples, have been fantastic pieces in both the quality of the sculpt and a measure of realism for the sculpts they're portraying--even if it's something like a giant snakeman.

this old argument again :3 oh......

Before trying to act clever, please read my post in detail.

You'll notice that there is an underlying current in my post.
It's called "constructive criticism".

I’m starting to think that in addition to Draigos law we also need one for boobs and models, such as “as the number of posts on a NSFW thread increases so does the level of posts against the size of the models breasts”

...
There's a reason that Pretre has a sig about Draigo's Law. Nobody has made a mention of Ward, nobody even has mentioned 40k for quite awhile.

And you still bring Draigo up.

Anyways. The problem isn't merely the size of the breasts. It's the quality of the sculpt for the "lunch" portion. It looks cartoony compared to the rest of Maelstrom's line. The Melusine Swordswoman has the same issue going on.

wait......cant people who dont like the boobs just remove blunt claws lunch rack?

Not liking the sculpt or the adult film starlet breasts does not equal "not liking boobs". It equals not liking the sculpt or the adult film starlet breasts.

Not liking the sculpt or the adult film starlet breasts does not equal "not liking boobs". It equals not liking the sculpt or the adult film starlet breasts

Yes....... but What I said was "the boobs" not "boobs", as in "the boobs on the model". I was merely suggesting that if there was a part of a model that you don’t like, you can simply remove it. In this case: lunch rack is offensive-model looks good but lunch rack is offensive-remove lunch rack- enjoy good looking model. Now granted that's hard to do with the sword mistress but that is generally a bad sculpt so there is little that you can do. I never said "if you don’t like big rat butchers and porn star boobs then you don’t like boobs"

There's a reason that Pretre has a sig about Draigo's Law. Nobody has made a mention of Ward, nobody even has mentioned 40k for quite a while.

And you still bring Draigo up.

well......this is a thread about banebeats/lords so there wouldn’t be much reference to GW at all. Also, how else would I refer to pertre's sig?

Before trying to act clever, please read my post in detail.

You'll notice that there is an underlying current in my post.
It's called "constructive criticism".

I was making a reference to the age old argument of "that model's boobs are too big" "no their not" "yes they are" etc

DPBellathrom wrote: general bitching about the flayed woman on a rat monsters pole

Well, it's a good thing you've taken the time to phrase the argument in a way that shows respect for everyone involved. :roll:

Spoiler:

sooo......these guys are fine by you lot but as soon as something has boobs it goes too far -___-

How would you know if those are fine with "us lot"? Did you bother to ask? Why would you even think they would be okay with us?

As for Mengil Manflayers, there are two critical differences between them and the rat person. First the body on the banner doesn't appear to be a full torso with organs and bones and innards inside- it's just stretched skin. So it's not completely absurd from a functional perspective. Secondly, and if you would have bothered to read my post rather than just making up what you want me to think, I made expressly clear that I'm okay with a character carrying around torsos as trophies as long as they're characters that have the psychology to be capable of comprehending the human mind and a willingness to shock. Clearly dark elves have that capability.

The Necron flayed ones are silly, and I've said they are silly many times. However, again, no torsos. And IIRC my necron backstory, these guys weren't originally trying to shock so much as making an absurd attempt to blend in.

A point that's worth remembering is that GW make a lot of very, very silly miniatures (see the Space Wolf line). In fact, part of their aesthetic is to be blunt, silliness. There's a childish charm to GW, which makes it possible to forgive these adolescent plays at maturity like in the Flayed Ones. Maelstrom is trying to make a "mature" miniature line, and generally they are very good at hitting that aesthetic. Once in a while they stumble, however. And the only way they will ever get better is if members of the public tell them when they've stumbled. When we have members of this forum getting hyper-defensive on their behalf any time they are criticized, nothing useful comes out of it.

Personally, I just want people to make good minis. I don't care if they're childish, mature, clothed, nude, gory, clean, whatever. Blunt-claw is IMHO not a good mini. And I'll have words with anyone who attacks me for saying so.

I'd have no issue with it, if the obviously 'should be' decaying breasts where drooping, and her head was hanging down.

Seems really weird out of position for no apparent reason. I mean, those are really perky for a corpse.

If that's not an out-of-context sig I don't know what is...lol

Wow. This guy makes me want to start a C:SM army, just to use as a DP. And the price isn't obscene, either.

I think, in the end of the day, the Bluntclaw miniature has been very successful in what i feel it was trying to achieve. A mutilated, and half flayed corpse of a women is a distressing sight, especially in the context of the background, as in, a monsters left overs. I feel had it been a man hanging from the back, the impact would have not been as close to home. As gamers, we're generally desensitized to brutal displays of violence in our miniatures/games/action figures; whatever you yourself are into, especially in GWs 'era of skulls'. It isn't surprising at all to have a collection of severed heads tied to the harness of a warsteed, or as seen with the previous images, flayed skin being worn as clothing. the fact that the corpse is a women however, that's different. Rarely (if ever from the top of my head) do we see the same brutalization of females as males in wargames, which makes it an unsettling sight. The miniature therefore, is very successful at disturbing its audience. As for the Breast size... ehh I personally think they're actually fairly proportioned. Maybe slightly on the large size, but I would not describe them as 'adult film starlet breasts.' I can see the controversy, but I can't identify with it.

I like the miniature, and I'd consider picking it up.

DPBellathrom wrote:

general bitching about the flayed woman on a rat monsters pole

Spoiler:

sooo......these guys are fine by you lot but as soon as something has boobs it goes too far -___-






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Never say an unkind word about the oldschool Flayed Ones! You'll only sadden 3rd ed Necron players more!
Oh Menghil. So sad you weren't in the 7e DE book.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about? Undead stripper pole? Yeah. She shoulda been stuffed in a sack. Or hanging from a noose. That coulda worked.

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:It's at the whim of the company that gets sculpted, whatever that may be, they tend to put out some damn good looking models.

Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but if that's the case, there's someone over in the PM section doing a My Little Pony Space Marine Army that I'm sure they'll love.

for the record I like both :3

I'm also hoping for the Hydra to be done soon

I hope it's BIG! Ideally FW Chaos Dragon big, but probably doubtful.

love the art. A 4 legged version would be nice too

Sanjay