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2015/12/19 02:39:43
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
The Resistance seems to be kind of the US Marines VS the US Army. Self sufficient, outside of their chain of command, but military all the same and loyal to the same masters.
It doesn't directly say that Kylo took down all the jedi apprentices by himself. - He could have done the equivalent of leaving the gates unlocked to let the 'Knights of Ren' in to do the dirty work. Sure, he maybe helped a bit but it probably wasn't all him. The way I'd describe it was: Kylo is good against muggles but had never really been changed by another force user before. Which is why, ok, getting shot at, he's got experience of and can deal with. Actual lightsaber fight... Not so much.
I still have big issues with The Death
I pretty much describe Episode VII as "a great film, that I kinda wish was never made."
Spoiler:
The Death was well acted, brilliant, fitted the story, was an excellent parallel, completed the circle, all that sort of stuff.
But, The Character had existed for 38 years, they were effectively eternal. As long as Return of the Jedi existed, that character would always be alive.
It was a consolation, a good feeling there. And, sure, maybe I get overly invested in fictional characters but, that character was always going to be there.
And, now they aren't.
There's very few characters that have affected me this way. To a lesser extent, Boromir and Theoden (in the LOTR novels originally), but the only one that ever cameclose to kind of how I'm feeling now was the death of Optimus Prime in the 80's, when I was a very, very small lad...
2015/12/19 02:44:02
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I think the line in the film was something more vague.
Spoiler:
"He was responsible for tearing down, all that Luke had made." Or something along those lines. - Something that left things up in the air on whether he hypothetically did an 'Order 66' or whether he did a 'younglings' style thing personally."
2015/12/19 02:51:50
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I'm pretty sure we get exposition at some point in the second half about how he himself killed the first class. Im very certain anyway. It certainly wasn't vague.
There is a minute chance it was said "from a certain point of view" but outside of that im pretty sure it was stated.
2015/12/19 04:24:45
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
So my take on it is that the confrontation on the walkway was done absolutely beautifully. That needed to happen and showed Han's full character arc. However they were talking about Kyle being their son far too early, and they kept talking about it, belaboring the point and really driving it into the ground.
It would have had far more impact if they had talked about Kylo in a more detached manner and only when Han confronted him he could have said "I want to see my son's face again" or something to that effect. In response Kylo would just remove his helmet and drop it just as he did. No question, no wondering, just confirmation that that was Han's son, period. That would have been the "Empire Strikes Back" moment and would have just been a jaw dropper. Pulling the trigger by them talking about it so much really diluted the impact that scene could have had.
Armies: Space Marines, IG, Tyranids, Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Dark Eldar.
I am the best 40k player in my town, I always win! Of course, I am the only player of 40k in my town.
So my take on it is that the confrontation on the walkway was done absolutely beautifully. That needed to happen and showed Han's full character arc. However they were talking about Kyle being their son far too early, and they kept talking about it, belaboring the point and really driving it into the ground.
It would have had far more impact if they had talked about Kylo in a more detached manner and only when Han confronted him he could have said "I want to see my son's face again" or something to that effect. In response Kylo would just remove his helmet and drop it just as he did. No question, no wondering, just confirmation that that was Han's son, period. That would have been the "Empire Strikes Back" moment and would have just been a jaw dropper. Pulling the trigger by them talking about it so much really diluted the impact that scene could have had.
Thats what would have happened if it was a good film made by a competent filmmaker. Yes, I went there.
Also in regards to Kylo being unpowerful/not trained etc. the dude literally stops a blaster bolt with his mind, something weve never seen before. I mean, literally freezes the bolt, midair, not blocking it with his hand kr lightsaber, but pausing it and holding it there for a pretty damned long time, while he simultaneously does other stuff. Thats not something you would expect from a rookie.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2015/12/19 08:23:12
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
A dim room, a crowd around a glowing screen, everyone is so excited that it's hard to care that this exact thing happened before. I'm describing the scene in Force Awakens where the Rebels, sorry, Resistance, are trying to figure out how to blow up the Death Star, sorry I mean the Starkiller. But it also describes the audience watching the movie.
"There's always a way to blow them up," says Old Man Solo. Does he really mean, there is always one of them that needs blowing up? Harrison Ford is tired, so very tired. Thankfully, there are younger actors around who are really enthusiastic about being in this ridiculous scene, which feels like a for some reason they're putting on a play of the events from A New Hope. The result is, I don't care at all about the upcoming battle either now or while it's going on, except purely as spectacle.
When I was a little kid, watching A New Hope for the very first time, there was no doubt in my mind that Luke would save the day. But I still cared. Why? Simple. I was emotionally invested in Luke's story. Although Poe Dameron seems like a cool guy, I haven't really seen him since the beginning of Act I. His exploits in the air are ... kind of in the way, you know, of what I really want to see. There is a fair amount of this obligatory, by-the-numbers wastefulness in Episode VII. I'm not going to even go into the dumb not-Yoda, not-Cantina interlude.
BUT the reason this stuff irritates me is because this waste got in the way of really, really good stuff that I desperately wanted to see.
Kylo Ren, wow, excellent character and such a wonderful portrait of darkness. This is everything Anakin should have been in the Prequels. He may be the most fascinating character in any Star Wars movie. Imagine if Lucas had actually intended to make Vader the central character of the Original Trilogy from its inception ... you know, instead of coming up with that idea at the very end of the story. Well, this is Darth Vader done right. And the best, most characterful part? This guy is literally trying to live up to Darth Vader!
Rey's journey of self-discovery ... this was not just a retelling of Luke's quest but rather a mature reflection on it. Luke was eager to jump into a world he didn't understand, as Yoda bemoaned. And like his own teachers had failed his father, he in turn failed his nephew. Rey is so much more thoughtful and patient. But her consequent confidence also has a dangerous edge, as we see during her duel with Ben Solo.
And then there is Finn, the perfect audience vehicle character. This guy allows us to get into Star Wars in a deeper way than ever before. We see this fantastical world through his eyes and it is from so many different perspectives. What is like to be a Stormtrooper? What is it like to be on the run? What is it like to feel called to something greater, with nothing but a sense of right and wrong to guide you? It feels classic but it is in fact fresh. Abrams & Co. obviously learned from the Prequels' mistakes as this was entirely missing in those movies. We had plenty to see but no point of view from which to see it. So it felt fake. By contrast, Finn makes this world feel like it matters.
This movie is about people who want to run but cannot run any further. Han and Leia run from their failed relationship and their monstrous son. Luke runs from his failure to restore the Jedi. Ben runs from the glimmer of redemption he feels within himself. Finn runs from the tyrants who oppressed him since birth. Rey runs from the truth that the past is gone forever. And, similarly, the movie itself is running from the impossible expectations of fans, wannabe fans, and, well, everyone. Episode VII gives in to the gravitational pull of the Star Wars franchise, sometimes with graceful humor and sometimes, albeit more rarely -- as with the scene i described above -- with joyless cynicism.
This tension is nowhere more apparent than Han's death. I feel certain this was a condition of Ford being in the movie. There are executive fingerprints all over that scene. This was so clearly a business decision that it fights to pull you out of the movie ... and this is the absolute worst time to lose immersion. Fighting to keep you tuned in is Kylo Ren's tortured psychological struggle and his mysterious connection to Rey. But contrast this moment to the subsequent duel in the forest. As Kylo Ren says to Rey, it is only us now. This is so much more engrossing than Hans death scene. Ren and Rey's struggle for Anakin's lightsaber is far more moving than Harrison Ford tumbling (gratefully) into the abyss.
The Force Awakens ends with a real beginning. Just when it was getting good, you could halfway honestly say. To be completely honest, the movie was pretty good from its actual beginning. But by the finale, you come to realize that its real value lies in where it is pointing. As frustrating as this movie sometimes gets, trying to quietly remake A New Hope, it really does offer ... well, a new hope.
It's basically Chelsea vs. Bournemouth from a few weeks ago.
Chelsea won the Premiership last season, have a team full of talented players and one of the best managers the league have ever seen.
Bournemouth have some talent and a bit of bravado.
However, as everyone knows, Chelsea's head has not been in the game this season. The players have fallen out with the manager and they just aren't delivering what they're capable of.
Spoiler:
a bit like Ren who's just killed his own father, is deeply troubled by what he's just done and therefore while he should win this easily, his head is not in the game
The consequence, is that while Chelsea have delivered the odd stunning victory...
Spoiler:
in the same way that Ren dispatches Finn with relative ease
...they can be found out all too easily by a team with nothing to lose who don't show any fear. The result - Bournemouth beat Chelsea away from home 1-0.
Spoiler:
which is pretty much the same result in this light sabre duel
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/19 10:33:21
After a fair bit of reflecting, I've came to this conclusion:
We have a director who has been blessed with two of Sci-Fi's greatest franchises, and what did we get?
Middle of the road, play it safe, box-ticking. In short, we got Beige Wars!
George Lucas' critics are numerous, and I count myself as one of them over the years, but he would not have made TFA in that manner.
I'm well aware of Phantom Menace, but for all its faults, it was an honest attempt, with its heart in the right place.
It was a Star Wars film. it was not
Spoiler:
a remake of a new hope.
People forget that Star wars wasn't always this massive money making behemoth.
The studios took a risk on a new hope - Lucas had to go for broke in a lot of ways.
I just wish that spirit of adventure has carried over to this new film.
As always, it's easy to criticise, so what would I have done differently?
One of the clever things about the James Bond film, Skyfall, is the way that is subverts the Bond films.
In every Bond film, Bond goes to the villain's lair. In Skyfall, the Villain goes to Bond's lair.
I would have flipped Star Wars in this manner.
The New Republic, struggling to rebuild after the war, would be up against the resistance, an insurgency, which would have been the remnants of the Empire.
Think of them as ISIL or some major terrorist group, a star wars version of the Alpha legion if you will.
Instead of hiding in a cave of the coast of Ireland to avoid Corporation Tax, Skywalker would have been struggling to rebuild the Jedi Order.
Spoiler:
Instead of getting killed, I would have had Solo hand over the Falcon keys to the new generation, before heading off into retirement.
I would have done a lot of things differently, but I would NEVER have
It's basically Chelsea vs. Bournemouth from a few weeks ago.
Chelsea won the Premiership last season, have a team full of talented players and one of the best managers the league have ever seen.
Bournemouth have some talent and a bit of bravado.
However, as everyone knows, Chelsea's head has not been in the game this season. The players have fallen out with the manager and they just aren't delivering what they're capable of.
Spoiler:
a bit like Ren who's just killed his own father, is deeply troubled by what he's just done and therefore while he should win this easily, his head is not in the game
The consequence, is that while Chelsea have delivered the odd stunning victory...
Spoiler:
in the same way that Ren dispatches Finn with relative ease
...they can be found out all too easily by a team with nothing to lose who don't show any fear. The result - Bournemouth beat Chelsea away from home 1-0.
Spoiler:
which is pretty much the same result in this light sabre duel
Not having a go at you, Flashman, but I think a lot of fans are ultimately, trying to create a rational for poor scriptwork.
Never ever had this problem with The Godfather or Chinatown, because the scripts were water-tight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/19 10:42:44
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/12/19 10:47:43
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Except that emotion, rage, anger, pain, should make any force user, but especially a student of the dark side stronger. One of the most pivotal moments in the entire SW series is when Luke momentarily lets his emotions get the better of him. In that moment, empowered by that emotion, he takes down one of the most gifted force users in history.
Also I think you're confused about Ren. I don't think he's torn over what he did. His aspiration is to be Vader, terror of the galaxy. He's not worrying about doing something wrong, about falling to the dark side. He's worried that he feels the temptation of the light. He's worried he's not evil enough. He's worried he won't have the strength to kill his father. He didn't 'fail' on that bridge. Yes that moment was his final test, but passing wasn't letting Han live. Passing was killing his father.
At least that's my take on it. Perhaps on a second viewing I'll see it differently.
Flashman wrote: Lol, I'm deeply wounded that you could so easily cast aside my carefully thought out Premiership football metaphor
On a more serious note, there are too many unanswered questions that remain...unanswered
A lot of people are saying (and I didn't pick up on this myself) that stuff from the trailer didn't make it into the film. Bit of a mystery that...
Also, the Guardian is reporting alternative theories for some of the plot holes. Again, a good script would have cleared up these ambigioities...
and finally, this Guardian quote seems quite apt:
Spoiler:
"A simple one, this. It makes a certain sort of sense that Snoke would be after Skywalker because he killed Darth Vader and is the only Jedi left capable of training a new generation. But it makes a lot more sense if the scarred extraterrestrial has personal reasons for hating the Rebellion hero. This theory suggests we’ll see more flashbacks in Episode VIII that will explain the pair’s enmity, and reveal that Snoke isn’t really 40ft tall at all.
Plot holes filled: Snoke seemed to come out of nowhere, so he certainly needs more backstory; the massive lightsaber-shaped gash in the huge alien First Order head honcho’s bonce.
Remaining problems: Poor old Star Wars: Episode VIII director Rian Johnson has the unenviable task of presenting a flashback lightsaber battle between the still-rather unfit-looking Hamill and an all-CGI character. The whole idea sounds horribly prequels."
Except that emotion, rage, anger, pain, should make any force user, but especially a student of the dark side stronger. One of the most pivotal moments in the entire SW series is when Luke momentarily lets his emotions get the better of him. In that moment, empowered by that emotion, he takes down one of the most gifted force users in history.
Also I think you're confused about Ren. I don't think he's torn over what he did. His aspiration is to be Vader, terror of the galaxy. He's not worrying about doing something wrong, about falling to the dark side. He's worried that he feels the temptation of the light. He's worried he's not evil enough. He's worried he won't have the strength to kill his father. He didn't 'fail' on that bridge. Yes that moment was his final test, but passing wasn't letting Han live. Passing was killing his father.
At least that's my take on it. Perhaps on a second viewing I'll see it differently.
I agree. Look how Anakin channelled his anger to defeat Count Dooku.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/19 10:57:33
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/12/19 11:11:17
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Kylo Ren lacks focus. He basically prays to Darth Vader for focus. He kills his dad seeking focus. When he's fighting Finn and Rey, he's pounding on his wound to the point of squelching blood out in order to get himself focused. And yet as soon as he has Rey in a position for the coup de grace, his mind wanders back to their connection in the torture room and he starts talking about training her, like he's almost forgotten what's going on. His lack of focus is manifest in other ways, like his hasty decision to abandon the search for BB8 on Takodana, for which Hux explicitly criticizes him in front of Snoke. People who think of Kylo Ren as some kind of invincible badass were simply not paying attention. Conversely, the movie established relatively early on that Rey has skill in hand-to-hand combat and is quickly tapping into her Force potential. Kylo Ren even explicitly tells his Stormtroopers that the longer it takes to find her, the more dangerous she will be.
@ Do_I_Not_Like_That - Yeah, but Anakin was another uber-force natural (which remember, was the justification for him not dying while Pod Racing) as Rey seems to be.
And Rey also seemed to channel a bit of anger in her victory.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/19 11:13:40
Flashman wrote: And Rey also seemed to channel a bit of anger in her victory.
Yep she makes a very distinctive mean face.
We are used to the idea of a would-be Jedi Knight struggling to avoid tapping into the Dark Side. We are not so used to some wannabe Sith trying to avoid the Light. And yet that's what we have here and it is absolutely fascinating.
Spoiler:
One might even speculate that Kylo Ren lost because he's not adequately hateful and malicious, and in fact he is basically curious and empathetic regarding Rey, while Rey won because she used her anger at Ren for killing Han and for all she knew also killing Finn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/19 11:21:38
Manchu wrote: As usual, the answer was on the screen:
Spoiler:
Kylo Ren lacks focus. He basically prays to Darth Vader for focus. He kills his dad seeking focus. When he's fighting Finn and Rey, he's pounding on his wound to the point of squelching blood out in order to get himself focused. And yet as soon as he has Rey in a position for the coup de grace, his mind wanders back to their connection in the torture room and he starts talking about training her, like he's almost forgotten what's going on. His lack of focus is manifest in other ways, like his hasty decision to abandon the search for BB8 on Takodana, for which Hux explicitly criticizes him in front of Snoke. People who think of Kylo Ren as some kind of invincible badass were simply not paying attention. Conversely, the movie established relatively early on that Rey has skill in hand-to-hand combat and is quickly tapping into her Force potential. Kylo Ren even explicitly tells his Stormtroopers that the longer it takes to find her, the more dangerous she will be.
I think it just boils down to poor plotting and scriptwork.
For me, the force has evolved to the point where it has become a deus ex machina to get scriptwriters out of awkward situations.
The force has lost its mystique, its mystery. It is supposed to be something that takes years of study and meditation, and of course, discipline, but now everybody seems to use it as though they were ordering a pizza.
Star Wars is not the only franchise to suffer this. In the fantasy genre, 'magic' suffers this same effect, these days. Everybody and anybody can cast powerful spells to get them out of tricky situations.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/12/19 12:04:58
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Never been much of a fan of Star Wars. Saw the film last night; I felt it was much better than 1-3 (which is not that hard), was much closer in style to 4-6 but with better dialogue.
Still the annoying 5 minutes of story/action then screen wipe to another 5 minutes, then screen wipe, etc... really don't feel that works in a feature film.
My feeling? If you enjoy Star Wars you will probably like it because "Star Wars". If you don't, you will sit through an OK film and leave the theatre going "eh".
Also some very annoying scale and science issues with some parts of the film but that is another complaint for another time
Like the first movie though, neither death star has any fleet support. invest a huge amount of time, money and resources on a super weapon, leave it unguarded, a classic case of those failing to remember history being doomed to repeat it I guess. what they can't spare a star destroyer or two to protect the thing?
you'd think the first order/empire would give up on the super weapons by now, surely after 3 of them get blown up their empire is drowning in dept, who's giving those guys loans to build those things. but I bet they have a new one for the last movie
Spoiler:
I thought it was weird how they didn't blow up the rebels with the first wave of attacks. Surely one of those 5 planets we know nothing about could have waited before being destroyed.
Also it didn't look like the Planet could be moved, so they powered it using a limited resource.
Really it would have been cooler to see the empire fight for the capital planet. Massive space battle, storm troopers doing a D-Day style landing on the planet and fighting through urban rubble spire by spire. Resistance fighting backwards through the rubble. Could have been great I think and different.
I did think that the Invasion of Hoth in the Empire Strikes Back was pretty awesome.
It would be cool to see a Space Stalingrad sort of thing.
What I have
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Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2015/12/19 13:55:41
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I hate how ludicrously unclear the state of the Star Wars universe is in the film. There's the Resistance, who are resisting the First Order except it's completely unclear just how much of the galaxy (if any of it) the First Order controls. There's the Republic, which apparently does exist again, but for something reason is separate from the Resistance and consists seemingly of only a few planets that all get blown up (and I'm somehow supposed to care that an ambiguous and unclear government that seems to have nothing to do with the events of the film has been destroyed...). There's some guy who totally isn't going to turn out to be the Emperor running what's left of the Empire, Leia for some reason is a general now, and Luke just up and vanished.
Also, for how built up she was, I expect Phasma to be more than just the First Order's secretary. Like seriously, she does nothing in this whole film. The unnamed storm trooper with the lightning baton contributed more to the effort XD
But really I think that's more a me issue than an issue with the film. I read a lot of EU material, and with all that old material being thrown out I really wanted to see what was taking it's place. I liked the characters, and was really impressed with how well the old cast fell back into their roles and how the film really wanted to establish itself as being more like the OT than the Prequels.
Abrams likened the First Order to post war Nazis who fled to Argentina. What if they managed to regroup, rebuild and seek to return to power?
That's basically where we see the First Order at the start of this film. Hitherto they've been an underrated threat that only a small band of "Resistance" have given any credibility to.
The Republic provided resources to the Resistance to help quash the First Order, but that was probably the extent of their interest on the matter.
I agree though - it was under explained and to be honest, calling them the "Resistance" is a misnomer as it implies they are some sort on insurgency whereas in fact it's the First Order who are the insurgents.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/19 14:14:07
I hate how ludicrously unclear the state of the Star Wars universe is in the film. There's the Resistance, who are resisting the First Order except it's completely unclear just how much of the galaxy (if any of it) the First Order controls. There's the Republic, which apparently does exist again, but for something reason is separate from the Resistance and consists seemingly of only a few planets that all get blown up (and I'm somehow supposed to care that an ambiguous and unclear government that seems to have nothing to do with the events of the film has been destroyed...). There's some guy who totally isn't going to turn out to be the Emperor running what's left of the Empire, Leia for some reason is a general now, and Luke just up and vanished.
Also, for how built up she was, I expect Phasma to be more than just the First Order's secretary. Like seriously, she does nothing in this whole film. The unnamed storm trooper with the lightning baton contributed more to the effort XD
But really I think that's more a me issue than an issue with the film. I read a lot of EU material, and with all that old material being thrown out I really wanted to see what was taking it's place. I liked the characters, and was really impressed with how well the old cast fell back into their roles and how the film really wanted to establish itself as being more like the OT than the Prequels.
Again, its down to poor scriptwork.
If you have a character who has spent their entire life on some backwater planet, totally cut off from communication, and has no idea what's going on in the wider galaxy these past 30 years...
Then it's the easiest thing ever to get that character to say: Who is the first order?
Two minutes of dialogue fills in the gaps, and throws the audience a bone, and lets the audience know what has happened in the 30 years since ROTJ.
Easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy...you get the gist
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Flashman wrote: Abrams likened the First Order to post war Nazis who fled to Argentina. What if they managed to regroup, rebuild and seek to return to power?
That's basically where we see the First Order at the start of this film. Hitherto they've been an underrated threat that only a small band of "Resistance" have given any credibility to.
The Republic probably provided resources to the Resistance to help quash the First Order, but that was probably the extent of their interest on the matter.
I agree though - it was under explained and to be honest, calling them the "Resistance" is a misnomer as it implies they are some sort on insurgency whereas in fact it's the First Order who are the insurgents.
If memory serves, the rebels had a big fleet in ROTJ and 30 years gives you plenty of time to re-group and go after remnants of the Empire, which you think would be a priority for the New Republic. Or is it just me? See my reply to Lord of hats.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/19 14:12:54
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/12/19 14:19:26
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Honestly It could have easily been explained in the opening scroll. It's not like I want the whole socio-economic break down. I just want to know the players and exactly what it is that's being fought for. Is most of the galaxy just, independent now? Are there fewer civilized worlds in the new SW than the old EU? Who controls what in this universe?
It's hard to comprehend the battle between good and evil when what's at stake is really unclear beyond generic 'goodness' and 'evilness.'
I'm trying to resist turning into a Force Awakens apologist (to reiterate, my position is that it was good, not great with an equal amount of duff/awesome moments) but this is one stick you can't beat them over the head with.
There was zero explanation of the backstory in a New Hope, beyond the fact that "the last remnants of the Old Republic had been swept away." Other than that it was just Rebels vs. Empire.
In fact none of the OT added much back story. This came later in the Prequels or via additional fluff introduced in novels, computer games etc.
The Knights of Ren... never showed up. Why even bring them up if they appear on screen for less than 5 seconds, in some weird force-induced flashback. The hired the fighters from The Raid/The Raid 2... and used them as cannon fodder smugglers against some CGI squid worm things. Well done. I thought they were going to be the Knights of Ren. Luke. Mother fether's in one scene and has no lines. What a fething waste. Way to take a risk there JJ. It was A New Hope 2: Hope Harder. I mean every damned plot point was the same. The Resistance as a whole doesn't make sense. If the First Order really were such a threat, the Republic wouldn't be using the Resistance to fight an under-funded, under-manned, under-equipped proxy-war. They'd send in their fleet and bombard the thing from orbit. So... only X-Wings and TIE Fighters exist 30 years later? No Y-Wings or B-Wings to conduct a bombing run. No Interceptors? No advanced TIE types? Did I hear this right: They lose 4 X-Wings and that's half their fleet. Fleet? Phasma. She had slightly more screen time than Luke. Maz Kanata. What was the point of this character exactly? Do we know if she died? They didn't give us any idea of what the worlds were. You knew the names of every world in all the other SW movies. They always set them up well. In this we have Jaku aka. Not-Tatooine, then... not-Endor, the world where Kanata was. Not-Yavin, and not-Hoth (which I guess is 'Starkiller Base'). Snoke. Why did this guy need to be a motion capture CGI character? They made such a big deal about using practical effects (which made some of the aliens look like puppets) but then went out of their way to have two motion-capture characters. Kanata, fine, easier to do CGI rather than practical... but Snoke's just a dude. What gives?
Overall I liked this film, but it was too safe and was just the first one told differently. I really liked the new characters, Poe especially (who did not get enough screentime) and I thought BB-8 was BB-great.
Flashman wrote: I'm trying to resist turning into a Force Awakens apologist (to reiterate, my position is that it was good, not great with an equal amount of duff/awesome moments) but this is one stick you can't beat them over the head with.
Nah it's a minor grip for me, but it didn't diminish enjoying the experience. Had I not been familiar with old EU material, it probably wouldn't even register.
Hopefully this is a launch pad for something great to come.
Rian Johnson is an interesting director - Looper is one of the better science fiction (yes, it qualifies as such) films of the last 5 years.
JJ is turning into a "safe pair of hands" and if I was him, I'd want to do something personal next just to show that I can. Even Super 8 was derivative of Spielberg movies.
I don't hold out much hope for Episode 9 - Jurassic World is basically the Force Awakens of that franchise, although Safety Not Guaranteed was another interesting science fiction film.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/19 16:06:26
Swear to god, if they seriously go for a 4th Deathstar in Episode 9, I'll be storming out of the cinema, fly straight to the writers and force everyone of them to watch episode 1 Clockwerk Orange style until they beg me to end their suffering. I can see Leia dying in either episode 8 or 9 during an Imperial attack on the station / ship she is giving orders from at that point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/19 16:07:24
I think I figured out why this is really not a Star Wars movie.
This movie is made for adults. Star Wars was never for adults but for kids. That is what episodes IV, V, and VI was made for. Kids. When George Lucas did I, II and III, again it was made for kids. That is why a lot of people don't like the pre quells. They are adults with rose coloured glasses on and forget why they loved Star Wars when they were younger.
I guess that is why I see A Force Awakens fails as a Star Wars movie for me. It is made for adults, with the more mature scenes that what George Lucas would have made.
While the pre-quells are not great movies, they are good Star Wars movies. While Force Awakens is a great movie, it's just not a good Star Wars movie.
Sadly it looks like money ruined this once great franchise now. At least with George Lucas it was never about money, but making kids happy and enjoying his vision. Now Disney is playing it safe and we just got a rehash of what we originally saw.
At least George Lucas is a visionary. He did something new with IV, V and VI. With I, II and III again he tried something new with all digital. Yes it failed a bit but at least George Lucas tried something new. What did JJ Abrams try something new here? Nothing. It was all playing it safe.
No wonder Disney didn't like George Lucas vision for Episode VII, he was most likely trying something new, and it would have been a Star Wars movie. It would have felt like a Star Wars movie. Kids would have loved this Star Wars movie.
Now we will have adults buying most of the toys, not the kids. At least with George Lucas it would have been adults and kids buying the toys because he knows how to make Star Wars relate to kids. JJ Abrams just knows how to relate to adults. And this is why Star Wars A Force Awakens fails. It's made for adults, adults with rose coloured glasses on.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
but outside of that im pretty sure it was stated.
40IK - PP Conversion Project Files
~4100
~1660
