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just curious but does anyone know how this has effected the raffle that drop zone was carrying out for a DA box set? i know a few folks paid for tickets and was wondering what has happened to that raffle in light of this little issue!
cheers
millest

My guess would be that the raffle is subject to the same level of deceit as the rest of Dear Roberts dealings.....my guess is that everyoe who bought a raffle ticket simply hasn't won!

He did list a winner on Bartertown, though he has failed to post the proof of the proceeds actually going to a charity. This is probably due to his account there being banned for 2 weeks. His "friend has posted a lengthy list of reasons why people haven't gotten their orders over the psat few months, the big ones being death of family member last week (no impact on month old orders) and that his GW supplier was in the hospital and the guy that took his place screwed everything up. The only thing he forgot was that the dog ate it....

Posted By Flagg07 on 03/11/2007 3:30 PM
 and that his GW supplier was in the hospital and the guy that took his place screwed everything up. The only thing he forgot was that the dog ate it....

Really? Wow, that's so interesting, since I have the same rep as he does, and he hasn't been in the hospital.

Posted By mikhaila on 03/11/2007 5:15 PM

Posted By Flagg07 on 03/11/2007 3:30 PM
 and that his GW supplier was in the hospital and the guy that took his place screwed everything up. The only thing he forgot was that the dog ate it....

Really? Wow, that's so interesting, since I have the same rep as he does, and he hasn't been in the hospital.

You know, its things like this and my supposed "shipping" number that have me convinced the guy is a 1st class idiot! I'm almost tempted to drop all charges and let him keep the money he stole out of pity. I mean, does the fool think that people won't check on the "information" he provides....I guess we judge everyone by our own standards, and his standards are painfully clear!

Although, with all the information generated by this thread, and people coming out admitting they have had a problem with DZ surely we have grounds for a case of internet fraud!

Everyone, especially new and young companies, make mistakes and overpromise. They're still figuring out what they can and cannot do and where their weaknesses are, many of which they cannot solve overnight.

That said, this is pretty ridiculous. All he has to do is cancel his orders, refund people, and apologise.

Posted By pnweerar on 03/12/2007 1:19 AM
Everyone, especially new and young companies, make mistakes and overpromise. They're still figuring out what they can and cannot do and where their weaknesses are, many of which they cannot solve overnight.

That said, this is pretty ridiculous. All he has to do is cancel his orders, refund people, and apologise.

QFT.

My tracking number STILL has no info available...

I went over and read the excuse message that Robert's 'friend' put up explaining why he is so late at shipping stuff. One part is total BS:

Fourth, several months ago, his contact at GW got sick and was in the hospital. GW put someone else on his orders and really screwed them all up. Rob has just received all remaining items that were missing off his invoices. If you had an item he was having difficulty getting, most likely he has it now (unless it was bits). Again, call him and ask him.

This is an outright lie. Robert and I have the same sales rep. He does an outstanding job, and has fixed any problem I've had immediately. I order a lot of product, and it's not unexpected that now and then the warehouse makes a mistake. It takes one phonecall, 30 seconds of talking, and it's fixed. The product is to me in a couple of days.

Nothing takes weeks, or even months, to fix. Nothing.

He is using his GW rep as a punching bag, blaming someone that isn't aware he's being blamed,  for Robert's slow shipping. It pisses me off because I know how hard his sales rep works, and how good he is. Dropzone needs to grow a pair of balls, spend a couple days working to fix the problems, and get people their stuff. Or refund their money. Enough with the excuses and lies.

To those of you waiting on product from TDZ, has znything shown up yet? Has anyone gotten in contact with Robert? Any info from those tracking numbers? Robert's suspension on Bartertown should be through tomorrow. If you don't have an account there, you might wanna look in to getting one. Robert has a good track record of posting there, so it might help you contact him. At a minimum, you might be able to get a general update. After 2 weeks, I'm sure he'll have something to post.

Nope, nothing showing up yet.

I managed to call him twice, getting through and him giving me a confirmation number. Unfortunately, the number doesn't work.

He did email me this morning though telling me he'd sent the wrong thing - so he'd send again today. We then shot a few emails off at each other, and he said he'd send the stuff express mail (overnight) today. I'm awaiting the confirmation number for it.

Overall, he's a nice guy (impression I got from the phone and his emails). He just seems a little snowed under, and doesn't deal well under the pressure.

Chuck

Posted By chuckyhol on 03/14/2007 4:03 PM
Nope, nothing showing up yet.

I managed to call him twice, getting through and him giving me a confirmation number. Unfortunately, the number doesn't work.

He did email me this morning though telling me he'd sent the wrong thing - so he'd send again today. We then shot a few emails off at each other, and he said he'd send the stuff express mail (overnight) today. I'm awaiting the confirmation number for it.

Overall, he's a nice guy (impression I got from the phone and his emails). He just seems a little snowed under, and doesn't deal well under the pressure.

Chuck

Wait...he sent you the "wrong" conf. # and then he said he'd "send again"?????

Nope. He sent me a confirmation number - however, it's useless. It displays no info - and it may not even be valid.

He told me he'd sent me one wrong foam tray, hence "the wrong order". He told me that he was going to express mail me the necrons again, I dunno why.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Chuck

Sounds like you could do one better and get in contact with the GW rep, and send him your " Get Well" wishes.
Then, when the guy tells you WTF? you can explaine the whole issue to him. Chuckyhol, you are getting the green weenie, Give it back to them three times over.
When you finally figure out what that number really is, you can use it to bury him with, 1. You were given a gimp order number, fraud. 2. You have been promised goods, and instead of an order, your only getting the shaft, Either internet fraud or Mail order scam, take your pick. 3. Money changed hands, so you are looking into Federal territory. Internet scams are becoming very interesting to the justice dept, the FBI, and the Post office. ( If its a credit card issue, you can even have them take a look into it.)

I do hope your keeping a record of this issue, so when you finally get fed up and get an attorney, you can just get paid and be done with it, or you own his soul.

The explanation sounds like BS to me. bury this guy or he just changes his " company name" and does someone else the same way.

yeah, you're being taken....classic con (keep em on the hook as long as possible)

So can people do a class action small claims case?

I mean, why the hell not?

I don't think small claims can work as a class action.

For my internet purchases I use my credit card. There's nothing like contacting the CC company and letting professionals deal with problems like this.

I understand people have to use PayPal, check, or money order for their purchases. I urge you to consider using a reputable credit card when making purchases from afar.

I'm pretty certain you can do a class action lawsuit for a low amount, especially if the suit concerns a federal matter (which mail/wire fraud is). The federal courts don't maintain a small claims court, and I'm going to assume that the class would be pretty small, so that would be your main hindrence.

Keep in mind that the cost of hiring an attorney to file a complaint in court would cost more than the items in question. You'd probobly be better off working through your Credit Card, where it's in their interest to protect your money.

As for the discussion about criminal mail fraud, there are three basic elements to be proven to convict a person for mail fraud:
1) a scheme to defraud,
2) through use fo the mails
3) that harmed or intended to harm the victim

in the current case, the tripping points are in a "scheme to defraud," and harm. If chuchhol and the others eventually get their stuff, just late, the harm is minimal (though courts have expanded this, and I haven't read the caselaw on late delivery).

the scheme element is where intent will become a factor: the prosecutor would have to prove that TDZ intended to either not ship or delay shipping, whereas the defense could simply plead incompetence and mistakes. Assuming the gears of justice turn, and TSZ is arrested and indicted for mail fraud, his next step would be to mail the goods. Best case scenario, you're pressing charges on an overworked/under qualified business man whose only harm to the victims is a few months delay. While huge to a gamer, that's not overly compelling to a US prosecutor. Sure, they make examples out of people all the time, I just don't think this would pique their interest.

As for a civil claim, even in small claims court, you don't need to involve mail fraud or anything. It's a simple breach of contract, People's Court style case. "I payed him, he never sent the stuff." What might be fun is to research the long arm statutes of your state, and find out if a small claims court can issue a summons across state lines in your matter. Again, the cost of the court action would be greater than the goods in question, but you could get your justice.

So far I still haven't recieved anything....I got the bum delivery numbers, and I'm convinced he's posted these just to buy him time.

I currently have Paypal chasing my claim, should that fail the next step will be the credit card company ( I payed with my credit card via paypal )

I have no sympathy for this guy. As for proof of his intention to defraud, well, how about this:

I have emails and PMs from this guy chasing my money, he basically stated on more than one occassion that his "stock" was running out and I need to pay him soon in order to get what I wanted! And now after paying...zip, nada, nichts! So, why does an overworked, underqualified business man chase clients knowing he can't / won't be able to fulfil their requirements?

The guys a fraudster in my eyes, final!

I know of 6 people on Bartertown who have posted Bad Trader Reports in reference to The Drop Zone. 1 of the 6 has received his stuff from Robert in the last day or so. I believe it was over-nighted and everything.

Of the 6 B-town traders who posted the BTRs, one of them also noted that he was somewhat familiar with the law. Words to the effect of I'll be doing a police report when I go into work tonight, yes I am a cop". Of the 6, guess who got their stuff....

It seems to me that the only thing Robert is concerned with is not getting into any legal issues. If I were one of the many waiting for my product, I'd take 20 minutes out of my life to go file a police report. Bring along copies of your correspondence with Bobby as well as exactly what you ordered (Description, part codes, value). Don't forget Bobby's info (Website, store name/address, e-mail,phone #) and finally, records indicating that you did indeed pay him. That oughta get the ball rolling. Get a copy of the report (generally 2 business days) and send it to his local PD. Get them to do a report too. While there is always the potential they might sh!t can 1 complaint, I can't see them blowing off 5+.

@mikhaila- Got a phone number to that rep?

Good luck guys. I hope you get your product.

Based on advice I recieved from legal advisors in England, I was informed that The Drop Zone probably isn't taking me seriously because I'm not a US based customer, however, I guess he needs to take a trip over to the FBI website......

I have since filed a complaint with the FBI as paypal is taking too long to resolve what I consider to be a simple case of internet fraud. So I'll let the FBI deal with it.

Good luck Robert....I guess you'll need it now.

I got my stuff today, after it was overnighted two days ago (I missed it yesterday and it needs a signature).

Everything was there - and then some. Except my sabol, which should be coming soon. He said that it would go out soon.

Chuck

Awesome Chucky. This should atleast relieve some of the people waiting. This makes 2 people that Robert has taken care of. I'm sure it's an uphill battle for him, but he's making some progress.

It seems that I upset somene over at Bartertown by not backing up my post over here on Dakka. I've never been shy about saying what stores I own, and who I am, so just to make sure:

Michael Clark, I own two shops, Showcase Comics, located in the suburbs of Philadelphia. One in Bryn Mawr, one in the Granite Run Mall in Media, Pa.          Phone is 610 891 9229.

I don't have it in a sig, because we don't do mailorder. I post on Dakka because I like to, not to drum up business. I've never posted anything on BT, so any of my words getting there are second hand. I don't know the guys at DPZ, and the only beefs I have with them are 1) Not shipping customers their orders after taking their money. I'ts unprofessional and unfortunately too common in the hobby industry. 2) Having a 'friend' make the claim on BT that it was the fault of his GW rep. It's a lie, and only done to try and shift blame. Since we have the same GW rep, and he has become a good friend, it makes me angry to see this done.

This anonymous guy on Dakka posting about having the same sales rep? Hearsay. Let's have some names. Prove to me that what you say is true and not some moronic InTaRWEb vendetta.
The posting of unverified information in a BTR? Not Appreciated. Not technically against the rules, but that can change. Bad Trader Reports relay the facts of a situation, not "I heard some guy over on Dakka said this about some other guy who might or might not be responsible for something happening to the guy who this thread is about."

For crap-sake people, this is the Internet. Anyone can say Anything, and the burden of proof is often ignored. That is not the case here. If you can't prove it directly, you don't post it. We all know there are plenty of people who strongly dislike The Drop Zone enough to start rumors, lie, and otherwise slander him. Don't assist them.

@Mikhaila: Lin (the main mod of BT and the man whom you qouted) I believe was implying that you should post the GW rep's name. I'm glad you put up your own info but it might help posting the rep's name as well.

http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewtopic.php?p=76747#76747

TDZ just posted a response on BT. In addition, he threatened that anyone calling him and "making threats" @ "2AM" would have their call traced and he would "press charges". He also mentioned that anyone who wants to come down and have it out can get directions from him.

All I have to say is that his behavoir throughout this situation reminds me of an immature teenager. Cheating people out of money, lying, shifting blame, and then threatening people with bodily harm is going too far. As I mentioned before, I have stuck up for TDZ on BT before but I'm done. I will not order from him and I'll tell everyone I deal with not to order from him. I'm also rather fed up that BT seems to be protecting him because he's an advertiser there and I think I'll be posting my thoughts on his little rant as well.

Here's my reply on BT (I have a feeling it'll get removed so...):

Mods, feel free to delete this if you feel it is inappropriate however I have something to say re: Robert's post....call it a little constructive criticism....

Robert, I am sorry for your loss and I'm glad that you seem to be taking responsibility for what's occured however

The Drop Zone wrote:

What I also want to express is that I will not tolerate any more of the 2am phone calls to my home and the threats sent to me via email. You feel you have the right to post my personal information on the web and email me threats where you want to come in and I quote ?Rip my head off and?.? BE MY GUEST. BRING YOUR SORRY ASS TO MY STORE AND ILL GIVE YOU THE CHANCE. You know who you are, so grow a set of coconuts and come on down. You want directions?


This type of behavoir is TOTALLY unacceptable on BT, ESPECIALLY from an advertiser. It does not look good to have an advertiser for this site threatening those who have had a problem with his service as well as being out their hard-earned money with physical violence. Sorry, that crosses a line.

Robert, if you feel that you are being harassed, then you should respond in a professional manner. You run a business and you are a supporter of this site. As such, you shouldn't be acting like an immature teenager and threatening to "take all comers".

As a business owner, you need to understand that people will be upset with your service from time to time and, since you don't have a customer service center, you are going to have to field those calls. Your best bet is to be calm, professional, and willing to work with people. Don't EVER threaten someone (especially not in writing on the internet for everyone to see) - it only makes you look bad and reduces your business' image in consumer's eyes.

My point is not to attack TDZ but a hope that Robert will edit his response and learn from this (both the post and situation) that he needs to be more professional. This type of behavoir would not be tolerated by any normal BTer (heck, I know Lin's banned a person who swore @ me before) and certainly should not be tolerated by an advertiser.

First off

As some of you may or may not know, my grandmother recently passed away.
This has caused a lot of hardship on my family. It was a sudden and unexpected loss that I can hardly form the words to express. I spent many days after school in my elementary and middle school years at her house after school till my parents got home from work. I was very close to her, and I miss her dearly.

Now with that knowledge, I openly want to express my deepest apologies for the lack of communication over the last 2 weeks plus. Unfortunately I run the store entirely on my own, and have no one to take care of things when I have to leave. This doesnt excuse anything I know people have the right to expect their products on a timely manner and I freely admit that I have let some of you down over the last 2 weeks.

I am currently sorting through close to 200 emails and my voicemail is currently locked and no one seems to be able to access it right now. I am sorting through the mess as fast as I can. A lot of products have been shipped out this last week and more are going out the door as I type this up. Thanks to my wife for making numerous trips to the post office.

What I also want to express is that I will not tolerate any more of the 2am phone calls to my home and the threats sent to me via email. You feel you have the right to post my personal information on the web and email me threats where you want to come in and I quote ?Rip my head off and?.? BE MY GUEST. BRING YOUR SORRY ASS TO MY STORE AND ILL GIVE YOU THE CHANCE. You know who you are, so grow a set of coconuts and come on down. You want directions? I have contacted the phone company and the local police department, the next phone call that comes in at 2am will be traced and I will press charges against you. You can block your number all you want. If you think I wont see you put in hand cuffs you are seriously, mistaken. Enough of that though.

I want to express my gratitude to a number of my customers who have stepped up for me and have posted information for me. As I said it to you on the phone, I consider you my friends and I am deeply grateful for your support and time, and your business.

That?s pretty much all I have to say at this time.
If I haven?t emailed you yet and you are missing things please email me I will get it sorted out immediately.

Thanks
Robert

Ancient
do me a favor if your going to post part of my text post it entirely

Delephont

why dont you tell everyone you intiated the paypal claim less than 2 weeks after the product was released to the public?

why dont you also tell them that international shipping is a 2 week minimum?

you can claim all you want i have the customs form recepit you are simply trying to get a dark angel box for free. thats my honest opinion on it

CP217402785US is indeed the customs form it is not a tracking number the only good thing about this number and the way it was shipped i have shipping insurance on the box so if the person on the other end claims to not recieve it i will gte my funds back. the number discrepency is simply i made a mistake and posted the wrong number from my grandmothers house while i was there

yes delephont i have disputed your paypal claim the box was shipped this is the last time i will ship anything overseas

you can contact the fbi all you want

seeing as how you people here have taken it upon yourselves to post my personal information here.. i want you to all know this the next time one of you decides to call my house at 2 am and threaten to kill my wife be prepared to have the police show up the next morning and i will see you in hand cuffs. you know who you are

being a customer allows you some lattitude but making threats isnt one of them

Uh, CP202353584US is NOT a USPS #.

yes indeed it is a usps number it is a international customs form number

yes chuck has got his crons i overnighted them when the other set failed to arrive
james had the box of terminators i mistaken left from a trade overnighted as well

i am a one man operation im sorry if my family problems have caused some frustrations
in any case where there was an issue i have either refunded the persons money and in one case offered to ship it free of charge to the person.

everyone is entitled to their product in a quicjk fashion and i appreciate that fact.. being out of the store for almost 10 days was not the best choice.

and posting here prior to that i dont go looking for posts concerning me thats why there are pms, email and phone numbers posted all over

unfortunately my voicemail is full and even the phone co cannot access it right now

i am sorting through almost 200 emails i think i have gotten everyone if i havent shoot me an email and i will get it fixed right away

i hope none of you ever have to go through what i have. i hope some of you understand that sometimes life happens if you dont what can i say

those of you who have bought from me i thank you those of you who havent and feel like making comments it is unwarranted

Rob

Fair enough on all counts. TDZ (Robert) is good in my books. I'm just hoping the other box of crons arrive

Chuck

Posted By The Drop Zone on 03/17/2007 11:39 AM


Ancient
do me a favor if your going to post part of my text post it entirely



Rob

Oh, Robert, I don't have to direct quote you - you've proved to be quite capable of putting your own foot in your mouth.