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Double post...

You're right that Space Hulk came out about the time that Aliens was popular and fresh. It was GW co-opting the Aliens theme into the 40K background -- Genestealers were lifted very obviously from the general Aliens concept and Tyranids are a development of that theme.

It is open to question how successful GW are at introducing their own IP. So much of the 40K universe is drawn from external sources. If they cannot introduce their own genuinely original material successfully, it leaves them vulnerable to shifts of popular culture.

Space Hulk is a good game in itself regardless of the 40K or Aliens inspired background. 40K fans would jump on it, I'm sure. 40K haters would probably be put off.

Posted By Osbad on 10/08/2007 1:22 AM
In order to have a big hit they have to tune into the current zeitgeist.  They need to have a game around the angles that are coming out in current sci-fi films.  A bunch of marines on a derilect space ship with a bunch of gribbly aliens is old news.

So replace the Terminators with Striking Scorpions.

The point is though there's only so much they can make by cannibalising 40k fans. OK, so they need to keep 40 fans interested, but the point of SH would be to lure n00bs, not just entertain existing 40k fans - they tried all that with SG and we know how much love they get from GW now... its all "if you're a 40k fan then shut up and just buy 40k you whinger".

Nope, the only way GW will diversify from the core games into any form of new "mini-game" is if it can be focussed at attracting brand new money into their stores. And that means translating GW-style wargaming into a milieu that non-GW-fanbois can identify with. LotR did it for a while, but there was only very limited cross-over from the LotR new meat into 40k and WFB because they are such different milieux.

On the other hand, taking the 40k or WFB background and giving it a slant that "chimes with the times" might work. Possibly. If they advertised it outside of their enclosed little GW-fanboi comfort zone...

GW's core problem is they think they are a games hobby company but actually they are a Warhammer company.

If you dislike the 40K and WHFB fluffgrounds, you would probably never buy any GW game that was based in them. Thus ruling out, er, everything in the Specialist Range.

That explains the lack of crossover from LoTR to the other "core" products.

I didn't mean they should re-release space hulk as it was.. in a big box set and all that. I agree that the draw was based on the Alien films and that whole angle. What I meant was, they just use it, from a marketing standpoint, as a way to sell some more terminator & genestealer boxes. Make the rules free to download, templates you can print out, and say "if you wanna play just click here and order some terminators and genestealers, or buy this special pack of all the models you'll need for a mere $5000".. folks that already have the models can just use em out of their own collection and start playing. If you're a nid player, you can find someone who's a marine player and has a few terminators and the 2 of you can set up a game. So, the only real investment GW would have to do in making a new version would be to convert the rulebook & templates to a PDF, and write up a few web articles in Black Gobbo. It's something that would be targeted at current GW players, kinda like all the other specialist games are.

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 10/08/2007 3:46 AM

Posted By Osbad on 10/08/2007 1:22 AM
In order to have a big hit they have to tune into the current zeitgeist. ...

Hmm ... "Space Hulk Musical " ???!!!   

Posted By Osbad on 10/08/2007 1:22 AM
Would a re-release of SH be worth the candle though?  The old game partly sold well because of the association with the Alien films.  That's not going to be much of a hook any more as those films are old.  A few may be interested, particularly fans of the old game, but I can't seeing it being a big hit these days.

In order to have a big hit they have to tune into the current zeitgeist.  They need to have a game around the angles that are coming out in current sci-fi films.  A bunch of marines on a derilect space ship with a bunch of gribbly aliens is old news.

IF Space Hulk was done as a boarding action game where one could "bridge" BFG and 40K it could certainly be worth the "candle."  In fact utilizing current miniatures and just adding plastic bulkheads and board tiles (probably where GW would or could lose money) this could be just another fun way to link large scale epic games to smaller scale 40k games etc. 

Just my thoughts really. I tried to modify the space hulk rules when the who eye of terror was going on with allthe space battles and planet falls. I didn't do the best job in the world but boarding actions was very well received in my local area.  your mileage of course may vary.

My opinion is that if they did rerelease SH, it would not only garner a huge draw from the sci-fi crowd, but in many gamers in general.

It's a good game. It won awards when it was first released. You dont have to love 40K background to enjoy SH. Its stands on its own merits.

Sure, it rode the coattails of the Aliens franchise, but that was just one of the minor draws to the game. It's simply a good game.

I understand everyone's points about releasing the rules as a PDF, or making them a kind of add-on or bridge to other games.

I just think at the moment there is no reason to go into a GW shop unless you want to play 40K or WHFB. And they have similar fluff, the main difference being the weapon names.

Posted By Osbad on 10/08/2007 1:22 AM

In order to have a big hit they have to tune into the current zeitgeist.  They need to have a game around the angles that are coming out in current sci-fi films.  A bunch of marines on a derilect space ship with a bunch of gribbly aliens is old news.

They already tried that with LotR, I remember seeing it in bookstores, video game stores and (I believe) Walmart/Zellers/Toy Stores.

But nogo.

That's probably a big reason why they *female dog* about competition from video games, especially Diablo 2/MMO type time sinks.

Settlers of Catan didn't rely on a film tie-in. GW's basic problem is they don't make games anymore, they just make add-ons for 40K and WHFB.

Posted By Kilkrazy on 10/09/2007 1:53 PM
Settlers of Catan didn't rely on a film tie-in. GW's basic problem is they don't make games anymore, they just make add-ons for 40K and WHFB.

Exactly.

The game stands on its own merits. Much like space hulk...

Posted By Kilkrazy on 10/08/2007 11:55 AM
I understand everyone's points about releasing the rules as a PDF, or making them a kind of add-on or bridge to other games.

I just think at the moment there is no reason to go into a GW shop unless you want to play 40K or WHFB. And they have similar fluff, the main difference being the weapon names.

one doesn't need to go to a GW shop to play space hulk or necromunda or warhammer quest or bloodbowl. Or any other stand alone game for that matter. For many of us, there isn't a local GW store nearby anyways, so that really isn't a big factor to begin with. 

it's been a long time since GW allowed anything but core games to be played in their stores, so most people do it at their homes, at the LFGS or in their basements etc. 

anyways, that's just my 2 coppers.

Posted By two heads talking on 10/10/2007 9:08 AM

Posted By Kilkrazy on 10/08/2007 11:55 AM
I understand everyone's points about releasing the rules as a PDF, or making them a kind of add-on or bridge to other games.

I just think at the moment there is no reason to go into a GW shop unless you want to play 40K or WHFB. And they have similar fluff, the main difference being the weapon names.

one doesn't need to go to a GW shop to play space hulk or necromunda or warhammer quest or bloodbowl. Or any other stand alone game for that matter. For many of us, there isn't a local GW store nearby anyways, so that really isn't a big factor to begin with. 

it's been a long time since GW allowed anything but core games to be played in their stores, so most people do it at their homes, at the LFGS or in their basements etc. 

anyways, that's just my 2 coppers.

What I meant was what variety of games you can buy in the shop to take away and play elsewhere.

GW have a big, expensive retail network, they also support an expensive studio and in-house manufacturing and distribution facilities. They are getting to the point where they do nothing with all this except 40K and WHFB. They are very highly specialised and therefore very vulnerable to a change in the market.

If people get bored or dissatisfied with their two games, they will be in big trouble. And the competition is increasing all the time.