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Ok.....

At no point did I mention removal of models, so I don't know where that came from. Totally seperate issue. Remove models from your Unit as long as it follows the minimun range issues, at yor discretion.

o

EkkkE
EkkkE
E E

Now, we say 'o' is a Marine with a Flamer. to get as many models as possible under the Template, the player places his Template in such a way to cover as many 'k's as possible. when this happens, the 'E' at the very middle-rear is clipped by the template. Do I not roll to wound him? Is he safe? If he is wounded, fails his armour save, your opponent takes an 'E' from anywhere in the squad, as they were all in range of the template.

That's not the point.

1. The "o" can't hit any "E's" because he isn't targeting them. Only "k's" can be hit and wounded .

2. The Splitting fire example that Kirsanth displayed is an interesting dilemma. I guess I would check to see if the flamer model "would" be in range, then place the template so that it did not hit any friendlies. More people don't (ab)use this tactic because it would be hard to pull off sometimes, and lead to long debates .

no. it is simple to pull off. easier than hiding a PF which is basic 40k tactica. you always move your flamer to be hidden from the unit being targeted by friendlies - but within range. now two units are being shot at.

which my example shows better than akiria5665's does.

however, akira5655's example works better than mine for the broken askpect of this mistake. if any E is wounded can unit E be charged? it was hit in shooting, according to you, so viable.

no model under any template or Blast marker needs to be a model in the unit targeted that is wounded, everyone agrees and then says all models are hit under the template. well. again. no. these areas are used to measure numbers of potential wounds instead of to-hit rolls.

shrug

If the flamer cannot be placed in a way that it covers models in the target unit it cannot be placed per the template instructions as it does not tell you what to do if you cannot meet the requirements of covering any models.

The rulebook does tell you what happens if you cannot place the template. It cannot fire. Simple.

Hey Nurglitch, do you have any other 'regular' players that support your interp? I mean Gamers that you actually play with, not neccessarily Dakkites.

It would be interesting for my next game @ the club to try this on all. Happens on the 29th of Jan. I will let you know, if I can see the screen through two black eyes and a badly broken nose.

Any comment on the 'Inferno' or 'Vibro' cannon stuff?

I find your logic slightly faulty Nurglitch.

p31. Template Weapons: "As with blast weapons, casualties inflicted by template weapons do not have to be taken from amongst the models actually covered by the template, but must come from within range of the firer."

p1 40 Rulebook FAQ: Q: What happens when an Ordnance balst scatters out of LOS and/or Range (possibly onto a different unit)? Do the casualties have to be within range and LOS as per normal shooting rules, or do these not apply to a scattering Ordnance shot?
A. A scattering Ordnance shot can hit and kill models that are out of LOS and range. These models would of course get their cover saves for any intervening terrain.

Since template weapons are treated as blast for casualty removal, minus the fact that the casualties still have to be in range for template weapons, you can still wound and remove models outside of LOS as per the FAQ. The only restriction with template weapons lies with range of the template.

akira5665: Yes, I do. It was how I was introduced to the game when I came back to 40k after the introduction of 4th edition. If you're going to try this out at the club I strongly suggest following my earlier suggestions about pointing it out before play starts and then playing back it when you do.

Kej: Template weapons are treated like Blast weapons for casualty removal, not like Ordnance Blast weapons that scatter. The FAQ text that you cite fails to be relevant.

I conceed the second point to you as I found the one sentence I missed.

However, for someone of self proclaimed intelligence, (which you did so incessantly in another thread) one would think blatently telling someone they are wrong would be above you and that you would, at least, cite a purpose for your statement.

Either way, you appear to be right as far as I can find.

I rather doubt that I've proclaimed my intelligence anywhere. I've certainly proclaimed my credentials, but that's hardly a claim of intelligence. Indeed, I've argued publicly and vociferously against the concept of intelligence. Still, I appreciate a good flame as much as anyone.

That said, I'm pretty sure that I did explain why your objection was irrelevant: because Template weapons are treated like Blast weapons for casualty removal, not like Ordnance Blast weapons that scatter.

So normal blast weapons that hit models from additional units in LOS and range do not cause wounds to the additional unit?

exactly.

RAW

it is VERY easy to abuse otherwise.

i did exactly what is suggested and asked my local gamers this.
they ALL disagreed with Nurglitch.
so i pointed out easy abuse from this. they said "that they way it plays"
every shooting phase i pointed out why RAW makes the abuse i was heaping on them illegal. but the "its meant to be played that way" verified that i CAN in fact do these things and they agreed that this is true (as most dakkites assert)

after the game the wanted to go read details and consult their beardy friends because in practice Nurglitch's interpretation plays better and more fairly too.

apparently no one else has noticed

To be fair, the perception that it plays better and more fairly when we play by the rules is irrelevant to what the rules actually say.

Still, that's a clever way of selling it. Kudos!