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Mountain out of molehill syndrome in full effect now...

Tournaments have a time limit, that is not part of Games Workshop's rules.

Tournaments usually have missions that are not part of Games Workshop's rules.

As said, tournaments usually have scores for painting, or sportsmanship, or army composition, and none of those things are part of Games Workshop's rules.

Games Workshop doesn't care, they have never had a problem with their rules being changed by other gaming groups.

sticking this out there for consideration..

I was part of a RTT over last weekend at Origins Game Fair in Columbus. There were 4 of us as staff/judges.

We had 16 players, and started at 10am. 1750 points, 2 hour game time, plus 30 minutes down time between sessions.

During MOST of the game sessions, all players finished the games to conclusions. There were 2 or so per session that were called by time, and those were 6 or 7 turn games. Some games were less than an hour.

We decided, in the "after RTT" talk, that 1750 was a really good points value for the time. No one was rushed, and we had no problems with players wandering off during the null time. (at Origins, almost everyone wanted to run thru the Exhibitor Hall or do something interesting).

We had no spoiled players, and everyone seemed to have a ball.

I do NOT think it would have gone as well if we had gone the 2k in 2 hour route..

-Porkuslime

Please, Allies mixed with IG is very potent. They were a powerful combo even before the new IG codex. I have played with and against the combos.

As for time constraints: I know how to play fast but I am not sure my opponent does. I would love to go but I am a victim of the bad economy.

thehod wrote:Please, Allies mixed with IG is very potent. They were a powerful combo even before the new IG codex. I have played with and against the combos.

As for time constraints: I know how to play fast but I am not sure my opponent does. I would love to go but I am a victim of the bad economy.

You should have brought that up with Goatboy when you were on the phone with him.

NeedleOfInquiry wrote: The more offensive the thing is the quicker Game Workshops will issue a updated FAQ to address it.

I almost spit out my drink when I read this, becasue it is so laughably untrue.

Needle....some advice. You're really starting to sound like one of those internet conspiracy theorists now, trying to support an unsupportable position.

Your point has been duly noted.

We get it......... you don't like the BOLSCON format. Now move on.


GG

Blackmoor wrote:

thehod wrote:Please, Allies mixed with IG is very potent. They were a powerful combo even before the new IG codex. I have played with and against the combos.

As for time constraints: I know how to play fast but I am not sure my opponent does. I would love to go but I am a victim of the bad economy.

You should have brought that up with Goatboy when you were on the phone with him.

I had like 8-9 different things to say but got cut off due to time constraints. Never really did call in before on 40k radio.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/07/40k-editorial-playing-fast-is-key-to.html

I've often thought "man, I wish this guy was playing faster," especially during the tedium of long deployment phases, yet have never thought "man, I wish this guy was playing slower." Fast play can definitely improve the "fun level" of a game, and if, like the editorial seems to claim, it can yield tactical benefits as well, I'm all for it!

Just a couple of comments and opinions:

BOLS has stepped up and they are running a tournament. GW has canceled theirs for at least this year. BOLS should be commended and supported for this.

It's cool to give thoughts/opinions in a constructive manner. However, at the end of the day - the BOLS guys are the ones setting up the tourney, they are posting the rules in advance, and things are up front and understandable.

Individually, we get to decide if we like the format and want to play or not. Personally, it sounds like fun - but unfortunately way to close to the Ms. birthday for me to go. Maybe next year.

Thanks and best of luck with the tourney to the BOLS guys. For those of us that love the hobby - it's a good thing.

I agree with Al. I wished I had the money this year to go but I would go especially the brutality of 7 games definitely separates the pack.

I have been thinking about going to BoLSCon after what JWolf has said. I have been checking Airline prices and I have also been thinking about taking a week of vacation and driving over there. Now I am very glad that I have not spent any money yet.

After the ‘Ard Boyz now I know that I should be not attending BoLSCon. In the local ‘Ardboyz I won my first 2 games and I was in the running to win it all. In the 3rd game I was matched up against an 80 model SoB army. We made it all the way to turn #4 before the game ended. I ended up with a major loss. If the game went one more turn I would have gotten the massacre. There is nothing more frustrating than knowing that you would have won if the game went another turn.

If you have people who do not play full games in your tournament there is no way to have a legitimate winner.

We made it a point to record our game times for 'Ard Boys in Austin. There was only a single game that went until time was called. My longest game took an hour and a half. I really don't understand why it is so difficult for players to finish games quickly.

bushidoredpanda wrote:I really don't understand why it is so difficult for players to finish games quickly.

As many, many others have already said, it usually has to do with horde armies and/or not knowing the rules.

"Hey! Hey! Hey! Hurry up moving your stuff, there's someone else who needs to win a game here!"

BrookM wrote:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/07/40k-editorial-playing-fast-is-key-to.html

Yeah, the timing of this editorial was rather good, wasn't it?

I was all Jazzed about going to BOLSCON, Im pretty local in Dallas, and the drive isnt all that bad. Paid for my hotel and registration.

I just got done playing Ard Boyz yesterday, I am not all that jazzed up to play in the con now...

Granted 2500 pts in 2 hours is a bit more then 2000 pts. My 1st 2 battles only got to turn 3, and the last one did turn 5..

I REALLY dont look foward to 7 rushed games. Especially with this Dice Down rule, talk about a game killer with that rule.

I am not a 40k expert, Ive played for 10 years, but its more like 1-2 games a month, I have a family, job and other responsibilities that keep me tied up. Do I know my rules, sure... but that doesnt mean my opponent does, and lets face it there are alot of obscure rules out there..

Is it possible to switch from the 40k tourney to the narrative? I am going to have fun, not be stressed by the clock and getting the last shot in...

Thanks,
Nick

In my first ‘Ard Boyz tournament I played a somewhat small Space Wolf army. It was Mech and I had about 45 models. I played against 3 MEQ armies and finished early in all 3 games.

In my second ‘Ard Boyz I played an all foot Eldar army with around 100 models. I played against a large Dark Eldar army and finished on time, then I played against a small Black Templar army and finished on time, and then I played against a giant SoB army and we got to turn #4.

So yes, if you play a small army and play against other small armies you can finish on time. But if you play a large army and play against another large army you are going to be in trouble. It has to do with the size of the army, the dice being rolled, the models being moved, etc.

I would imagine that the BoLS guys play what the local meta game that leans toward Mech armies, small expensive seer councils, etc.

BrookM wrote:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/07/40k-editorial-playing-fast-is-key-to.html

And if you look at the comments, there are a lot of people who are not all the interested in playing really fast.

Chapterhouse wrote:
Granted 2500 pts in 2 hours is a bit more then 2000 pts. My 1st 2 battles only got to turn 3, and the last one did turn 5..

Thanks,
Nick

Each round of the 'Ard Boyz should have been 2.5 hours so I hope that is what you were given. But the set up and the initial stages are what take the longest so the 'Ard 'Boyz actually will seem like more time than 2000 points in 2 hours.

I've always wanted a 1750 speed tournament where your score is not only what you destroy etc.. but what your end time is at the end of the match.

You could just use chess clocks.


That would be a fething awesome tournament.

If you're in a rush, if you're too busy to play at a leisurely pace, if you somehow need to speed things up, play 40k in 40 minutes.

You are right, it was 2.5 hours, between set up and rule reading and army list reading, it ends up being 2 hours.

I was playing this list:
1 LR Redeemer
2 Preds
1 Whirlwind
3 10 man tactical squads, 1 Razorback, 1 Droppod
5 Terminators
10 Assault Marines - Droppod
2 Dreadnoughts with Droppods
2 HQ Characters

That is alot to mess with, also consider all the Droppodding and I outflanked anything I wanted... add your tournament thinking and trying to truly win and it makes a big issue on time. BOLSCON will be just as hard with only 2 hours total - setup, playtime, etc.

Darkwynn wrote:

djphranq wrote:It looks like it could be fun but yeah... 2000 pts in 2hrs seems pretty tight.

Darkwynn here from the Bols crew.

A lot of us finish our games way under the two hour mark. I know Jwolf and I playing 2000 point games can finish under a hour 90% of the time and that is him playing guard and me playing Black Templar hoard. I know we are not the norm but if you want to play competitive then join the 40k touranment otherwise you might want to check out the narrative which focus more on the hobby aspects.

If you guys can't finish a game in two hours at 2000 points I don't know what to say but play quicker? Also, As Blackmoor knows me too we will have no tolerance for Slow playing period if it is brought up we will give a warning by basis and if need be I will put a judge there to watch it.

I would just like to add that I played the ‘Ard Boyz tournament in Phoenix. I have not played much 40k in the local area, so this was one of my first tournaments here.

It came as a surprise at how many rules disputes that we had during my games. So we had to look up the rules and have a judge come over all of the time, and this prolonged our games a great deal.

To give you an example, I was being hit by a template from a land raider redeemer and he was counting models whose bases were not under the template but whose swords and guns were under it. After looking it up in the rule book, we called a judge over and he ruled in favor of my opponent.

When you are playing with friends you play by the same house rules, and conventions. When you play with different people all over the country they all play by different house rules and that is one of the many reasons why it takes longer to play strangers than friends.

You got screwed with that ruling Blackmoor. Man I want to take a vacation to the Valley of the sun so bad!

NeedleOfInquiry wrote:Over ruling the Game Workshops Books and their current FAQ's is a bad idea for a major tourney to take.

Really do not care what game stopping thing they are trying to stop. The more offensive the thing is the quicker Game Workshops will issue a updated FAQ to address it. Until then one lives with it.

Live within the rules or don't. There is no third choice.

The current BOLS tourney will not live within the Official rules for 40K as written by Game Workshops.

It is a precedent that should not be supported.

its obvious when you take certain DH/WH units that the current IG codex was not written to accomodate them. For example, if you take IG with allied marines and take terminators you cannot fit 12 into a valk, but gk terminators can.

In all honesty although its not as fun there are multiple things in the DH/WH codex that were obviously not thought of and meant to be happeninig in coordination with the current 5th edition codex, rather than ban specific units its easier to just make the blanket statement.

and honestly to whomever said without mystics DSing lash/marine armies are unstoppables!!!one111!!eleven!! im pretty sure a DSing lash/marine army doesnt instantly win against non imperial armies that cannot take mystics and have no allied codex rules.