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kirsanth wrote:Also - moving onto the table actually requires moving 'through "off the table"'.

This is why you can infer that moving onto the table clears the restriction that you move through "off the table" (per my above post). It does not allow you to make an additional inference that you may end your move off the table.

WMS FTW LOL



(Used a Heirophant on a rather annoying base too, and had this issue)

Gwar! wrote:How do you resolve Baneblades or Monoliths then, which cannot move more than 6"? Easy, you leave them "hanging" on the table edge as permitted by the rules.

There's no RaW to resolve what happens. No rule allows you to place models off the table, even as part of "moving on". (To be clear, the reserve rules do not say that you put the model just off the edge and move on, they say you measure as if it had been sitting off the board and moved on. No part of this process makes an allowance for the model to be even partially off the board at any point.)

Apples and Oranganas, they are only used in Apocaklypse [sic] so we don't care.

Monoliths can move from regular reserves in regular games, RxGhost.

ajfirecracker wrote:No part of this process makes an allowance for the model to be even partially off the board at any point.

Apart from, you know, the reserve rule which states they begin off the board, but never says they must fully move on, only that they must move on. A Model that is 10% on the Table and 90% Hanging is still on the table (as it is obviously not off the table, otherwise it wouldn't have 10% on the table)

I think any attempts to really find a RAW answer for this are going to have problems. As ArbitorIan pointed out, there are all kinds of potential for abuse if you allow partial roll ons. The existence of Monoliths makes it hard to argue that a landraider must move at cruising speed when arriving from reserve. Missions like Dawn of War that mandate reserves make it less likely that players should just be screwed for having big vehicles in reserve.

I say use the following rule: a player must make a good faith effort to get as much of the vehicle as he can on the board at the speed he wishes to drive at (Battle, cruising, flat out), and any overhang will simply be like an out of coherency squad: dealt with at the next possible opportunity.

There is support for this, as the reserves rules do say that units in reserve are "deployed", not simply brought out for reserve. Deployed units must be within the deployment zone, so there's at least some evidence that they shouldn't be left hanging off the edge.

RxGhost wrote:Apples and Oranganas, they are only used in Apocaklypse [sic] so we don't care.

Monoliths are only used in Apoc? Better break that to the 3 Necron Players in my Area then....

ajfirecracker wrote:Monoliths can move from regular reserves in regular games, RxGhost.

Indeed they can, indeed they can. It's not really too much of an issue though, since the monolith is 6" long and can legally float onto the board.

RxGhost wrote:

ajfirecracker wrote:Monoliths can move from regular reserves in regular games, RxGhost.

Indeed they can, indeed they can. It's not really too much of an issue though, since the monolith is 6" long and can legally float onto the board.

The monolith is more than 6" long.

I have one right here, I just measured it, it is 6" long.

RxGhost wrote:I have one right here, I just measured it, it is 6" long.

A picture if you do not mind.

Gwar, the reserve rules do not state that the model begins off the board, it says to measure the movement for the model as if it began just off the board.

ajfirecracker wrote:Gwar, the reserve rules do not state that the model begins off the board, it says to measure the movement for the model as if it began just off the board.

Which means that it began off the board... Or did it just magically pop into existence?

It just magically popped into existence, RaW.

(i.e. it was not in the game, then you rolled some reserves and now it is)

There's no rule allowing you to place models even partially off the table.

But there "is" a rule allowing you to place the model partially on the table, meaning you have your permission - you do not need anything additional here.

RxGhost - Monoliths are more than 6" long. Your excellent abilities obviously extend to measuring as well.

What rule, nosferatu? The reserve rule (as I've pointed out multiple times) doesn't say to place the model and move it on. It says that you move on by measuring as if it were just off the table, not that it actually is.

Also, I have my own permission? What?

nosferatu1001 wrote:But there "is" a rule allowing you to place the model partially on the table, meaning you have your permission - you do not need anything additional here.

RxGhost - Monoliths are more than 6" long. Your excellent abilities obviously extend to measuring as well.

You would be right, except you're wrong...again. Also, despite the fact the monolith base is a square, I measured both sets of sides. They were 6", they probably would have been less except the guy I traded it from put it together with a hot glue gun, broke it apart to send to me, then I had to re-glue it.

ajfirecracker wrote:What rule, nosferatu? The reserve rule (as I've pointed out multiple times) doesn't say to place the model and move it on. It says that you move on by measuring as if it were just off the table, not that it actually is.

Also, I have my own permission? What?

Except it states you mvoe on as normal, with the exceptions that you move as if you were just off (not having a defined start position like you do with all other movements)

There is therefore no reason why you can't simply place the tank at the edge and literally move it 5 inches along the playing surface to its final position. At no point have you moved the tank "off" the table as this implies a direction - when you are driving directly onto the table you are not also driving off: no reciprocity here.

I was stating *I* have permission, frmo the reserves rules, to be partially on the table.

I say the practice of allowing a Landraider a partial roll on is a reasonable compromise.

I am not making any rules claims at all.

The rules do not state, nosferatu, that you place the LR on the board edge and move it on as a normal move. It states that you measure as if it were just off the board (the point being that it is not actually just off the board, but in your carrying case/unsupervised game-store kid's slippery hands).

As a result, there's no reason to interpret the rules as granting a special exception such that you may place your models off the board.

BRB page 94 wrote:When a reserve unit arrives, it must move onto the table from the controlling players own table edge......

Actually, it DOES state you move it on from your table edge. the clarification is to tell you where to measure the moves start point from. The use of "move" can contextually only mean "move as you do normally" as there are no other restrictions / requirements placed on it.

At no point does it say the model cannot be partially on, and the requirement to move "onto" the board does allow for partially on.

RxGhost wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:But there "is" a rule allowing you to place the model partially on the table, meaning you have your permission - you do not need anything additional here.

RxGhost - Monoliths are more than 6" long. Your excellent abilities obviously extend to measuring as well.

You would be right, except you're wrong...again. Also, despite the fact the monolith base is a square, I measured both sets of sides. They were 6", they probably would have been less except the guy I traded it from put it together with a hot glue gun, broke it apart to send to me, then I had to re-glue it.

LOL. try holding the Tape Flat against it rather than trying to use perspective tricks.

Didn't notice that - it isn't even held parallel to the base, but at an angle so the "6" looks like it is over the end.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Didn't notice that - it isn't even held parallel to the base, but at an angle so the "6" looks like it is over the end.

Yup. So, can we agree that a Monolith is slightly longer than 6" and thus RxGhost does not allow them to arrive from reserve?

Hell, he didnt think they could be used outside of apocalypse, so arriving from reserves is the least of his problems.

I could not find the image posted last time, but I did realize I have WAAAY too many pages of YMDC without "skip to unread", so

Is that ruler on the table?

kirsanth wrote:I could not find the image posted last time, but I did realize I have WAAAY too many pages of YMDC without "skip to unread", so

Is that ruler on the table?

Yes. If someone says it is off the table, they do not know what the words "Ruler", "Table" or "On" mean

I love you guys so much and by that I mean it's opposite day.

Even when presented with photographic evidence to the contrary, you're stuck so far up in yourselves that you continue to deny, deny, deny. Because you couldn't ever be wrong, could you?

I'm done with you fools...you return to your world, I'll return to mine.

Actually, if you hold the ruler at an angle the object will appear longer, not shorter. (Shortest distance between two points being a straight line and whatnot)

Edit: For example, you could hold a meter-stick at a very sharp angle and make a monolith look like it's a meter long.