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LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Where exactly in that paragraph is a price increase for maximum profitability while maintaining an alignment with a customers upper willingness to pay also an indicator of premium pricing? Even then, even if it were, games workshop would not be premium because they have several low end entry products which heavily undercut the competition and themselves while they are simultaneously only the middle ground for model pricing within the field. They are not premium pricing by any definition.

You formed an opinion now you're looking for facts to back it up. It's backwards.

Actually its not backwards as you are the one that tried to validate GW's pricing by comparing it with PP's warjack.
Im simply showing you that it is infact important to determine , whether PP was merely setting a price after GW's pricing standard.

Well firstly the thunderhead is just overpriced. The trygon is three times its size and has enough spare parts to outfit several other monstrous creatures. Secondly privateer was NEVER less expensive. Warjacks were (WERE) marginally less expensive than dreadnoughts and the infantry was always much more expensive per model. Secondly it still have no relative bearing. A cost increase does not imply premium pricing. Premium pricing is an increase for the sake of seeming expensive and thus higher quality. Games workshop has given every indication that its pricing scheme is exactly what you quoted, an exploration into seeing what the upper limit of their audience will pay in an attempt to recover from increased operating costs and lower volume being sold. To be premium it would need to be effectively more expensive, and it is not. It is the same. It is less expensive than infinity. It was less expensive than confrontation. It is still less expensive than gundam models, macross boats, world war two figures, and model wooden boats.

It's just not premium priced. Expensive? Yes. But not premium priced.

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Where exactly in that paragraph is a price increase for maximum profitability while maintaining an alignment with a customers upper willingness to pay also an indicator of premium pricing? Even then, even if it were, games workshop would not be premium because they have several low end entry products which heavily undercut the competition and themselves while they are simultaneously only the middle ground for model pricing within the field. They are not premium pricing by any definition.

You formed an opinion now you're looking for facts to back it up. It's backwards.

Actually its not backwards as you are the one that tried to validate GW's pricing by comparing it with PP's warjack.
Im simply showing you that it is infact important to determine , whether PP was merely setting a price after GW's pricing standard.

Well firstly the thunderhead is just overpriced. The trygon is three times its size and has enough spare parts to outfit several other monstrous creatures. Secondly privateer was NEVER less expensive. Warjacks were (WERE) marginally less expensive than dreadnoughts and the infantry was always much more expensive per model. Secondly it still have no relative bearing. A cost increase does not imply premium pricing. Premium pricing is an increase for the sake of seeming expensive and thus higher quality. Games workshop has given every indication that its pricing scheme is exactly what you quoted, an exploration into seeing what the upper limit of their audience will pay in an attempt to recover from increased operating costs and lower volume being sold. To be premium it would need to be effectively more expensive, and it is not. It is the same. It is less expensive than infinity. It was less expensive than confrontation. It is still less expensive than gundam models, macross boats, world war two figures, and model wooden boats.

It's just not premium priced. Expensive? Yes. But not premium priced.

Forgive me for been confused atm Shuma , but i sort of forgot the reason for you comparing Trygon to that Warjack , could you tell me again?

LunaHound wrote:

Hawkins wrote:Well Luna, aside from the position that shama has so agressively tried to defend , look at the vote count for your answer. 80 out of 106 vote yes they 'think' GW is. there is your answer.

TBH Hawkins , im really not interested in debunking what people defend , nor do i ever find myself to be right all the time.
Im just curious to why is shuma so aggressive towards me in discussions. I dont know if its the nature on how discussion goes , or there is something about me that...

Contrary to what many people believe , this thread is not an attempt to flame / troll GW as some have already msged me.
I simply want to see how the different types of GW customer ( including myself ) view GW.

Please. Don't pretend like it's just you. I dislike ignorance. I dislike opinions held in ignorance. I dislike ignorant opinions. And I certainly dislike it when 80 ignorant people gather together to ignorantly complain in a contextless poll about how they think that games workshop is overpriced. A majority of Americans can't find the middleast on a map. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A majority of this thread doesn't know what premium pricing is. That doesn't mean games workshop does it.

ShumaGorath wrote:A majority of Americans can't find the middleast on a map. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I might be rude to bring this up (but i feel like i should because its so recent ) , but do you realize the extreme irony of this sentence?

What's ironic?
Shuma using the statistics from an ill-informed populace in a thread where most of the polling/posts don't know what the topic at hand actually is?

LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:A majority of Americans can't find the middleast on a map. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I might be rude to bring this up (but i feel like i should because its so recent ) , but do you realize the extreme irony of this sentence?

No, go ahead, enlighten me.

I think shuma is capable of speaking for himself kan, and if you can proof that the people that voted doesnt actually know what they are voting for , i'll take that into consideration , until then , its just speculation.

Whats ironic? its just something he said to me yesterday , you really not need to get involved with this kan.

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:A majority of Americans can't find the middleast on a map. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I might be rude to bring this up (but i feel like i should because its so recent ) , but do you realize the extreme irony of this sentence?

No, go ahead, enlighten me.

Could we discuss / answer things in order its been brought up? much appreciated.

I would still like to know the reason and purpose for you comparing PP Warjack to GW Trygon

Whether or not GW has set a price standard that PP follows has nothing to do with whether or not GW uses premium pricing. Kanluwen is correct to point out that this poll does not prove anything about GW using premium pricing. It proves that 80/106 do not know what premium pricing is. I would reiterate that it also proves most people respond to threads without bothering to read them or think about them.

...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.

That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.

Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.

LunaHound wrote:I would still like to know the reason and purpose for you comparing PP Warjack to GW Trygon

As already explained, premium pricing means raising prices above competitors in order that one's product will be thought of as superior because it is more expensive. Shuman points out that GW's products are not more expensive than PP's, it's competitor. Therefore, he says GW does not use premium pricing.

LunaHound wrote:

Hawkins wrote:Well Luna, aside from the position that shama has so agressively tried to defend , look at the vote count for your answer. 80 out of 106 vote yes they 'think' GW is. there is your answer.

TBH Hawkins , im really not interested in debunking what people defend , nor do i ever find myself to be right all the time.
Im just curious to why is shuma so aggressive towards me in discussions. I dont know if its the nature on how discussion goes , or there is something about me that...

Contrary to what many people believe , this thread is not an attempt to flame / troll GW as some have already msged me.
I simply want to see how the different types of GW customer ( including myself ) view GW.

Shuma acts that way in nearly all of his conversations so I wouldn't take it personally.

Kanluwen wrote:...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.

That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.

Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.

All that tells me is around 5 people doesnt.
Whether the rest of the 75 knows or not only heaven knows , or , do you know if they know?

Still awaiting shuma's answer.

Neconilis wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Hawkins wrote:Well Luna, aside from the position that shama has so agressively tried to defend , look at the vote count for your answer. 80 out of 106 vote yes they 'think' GW is. there is your answer.

TBH Hawkins , im really not interested in debunking what people defend , nor do i ever find myself to be right all the time.
Im just curious to why is shuma so aggressive towards me in discussions. I dont know if its the nature on how discussion goes , or there is something about me that...

Contrary to what many people believe , this thread is not an attempt to flame / troll GW as some have already msged me.
I simply want to see how the different types of GW customer ( including myself ) view GW.

Shuma acts that way in nearly all of his conversations so I wouldn't take it personally.

Probably , thats why i gave him the benefit of the doubt ( see in red )
Its funny , as aggressive as he sounds , i like shuma , i even made him an awesome face last year.

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.

That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.

Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.

All that tells me is around 5 people doesnt.
Whether the rest of the 75 knows or not only heaven knows , or , do you know if they know?

Still awaiting shuma's answer.

So where's your proof that the other 75 do know what they're voting for?

It's YOUR poll. It's YOUR statement that everyone is well-informed and knows exactly what you're talking about.
Burden of evidence is on the prosecution there.

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.

That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.

Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.

All that tells me is around 5 people doesnt.
Whether the rest of the 75 knows or not only heaven knows , or , do you know if they know?

Still awaiting shuma's answer.

So where's your proof that the other 75 do know what they're voting for?

It's YOUR poll. It's YOUR statement that everyone is well-informed and knows exactly what you're talking about.
Burden of evidence is on the prosecution there.

Burden to proof what? Its a thread asking for people's opinion on GW .
must you assume for everything there needs to be 2 sides debating? You know there are people
that sits in middle and see whats going on without feeling the need to claw each others throat out.

Maybe the "why do you have a problem with me" discussions should happen via PM and the "why do you think GW uses premium pricing" discussion should happen here.

I would still like to know the reason and purpose for you comparing PP Warjack to GW Trygon

Well for premium pricing to be established a comparative increase in prices must be maintained. While games workshop can raise prices, unless they are being sold at those advanced prices consistently, and unless those advanced prices are maintained over the competition then they are not premium priced. Having an expensive product does not define a premium pricing strategy. For that to happen you need to be moreexpensive than the median average within the field of competition. All computers are expensive, but while a dell may be 1,200 dollars Dell as a company does not engage in premium pricing, they simply sell an expensive product. Much the same since games workshops prices do not advance above its competitors they are not premium priced. It is less expensive than Infinity, it is on equal footing with privateer (and always has been), it was more expensive than confrontation when they competed. It is arguably more expensive than flames of war, was more expensive than heroclix, maintains a higher price than boxed tablegames like Settlers, all the while being less expensive than big gundam kits, model trains, historical models, and model boats. They are a company that sits well in the middle ground.

A more apt comparison would be between a space marine ven dread at 50$ alongside the thunderhead at the same cost.

Manchu wrote:Maybe the "why do you have a problem with me" discussions should happen via PM and the "why do you think GW uses premium pricing" discussion should happen here.

There are no problem here , still awaiting shuma's answer to question make posts ago.
No need to derail this Manchu and Kan , im not going to go rabid this time , never again.

ShumaGorath wrote:

I would still like to know the reason and purpose for you comparing PP Warjack to GW Trygon

Well for premium pricing to be established a comparative increase in prices must be maintained. While games workshop can raise prices, unless they are being sold at those advanced prices consistently, and unless those advanced prices are maintained over the competition then they are not premium priced. Having an expensive product does not define a premium pricing strategy. For that to happen you need to be moreexpensive than the median average within the field of competition. All computers are expensive, but while a dell maybe be 1,200 dollars Dell as a company does not engage in premium pricing, they simply sell an expensive product. Much the same since games workshops prices do not advance above its competitors it is not premium priced. It is less expensive than Infinity, it is on equal footing with privateer (and always has been), it was more expensive than confrontation when they competed. It is arguably more expensive than flames of war, was more expensive than heroclic, maintains a higher price than boxed tablegames like Settlers, all the while being less expensive than big gundam kits, model trains, historical models, and model boats. They are a company that sits well in the middle ground.

A more apt comparison would be between a space marine ven dread at 50$ alongside the thunderhead at the same cost.

Thanks for addressing that shuma , so basically you are saying ,
if GW is really setting premium pricing , why is warjack more expensive?

( if yes , i'll get to the 2nd part )

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.

That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.

Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.

All that tells me is around 5 people doesnt.
Whether the rest of the 75 knows or not only heaven knows , or , do you know if they know?

Still awaiting shuma's answer.

So where's your proof that the other 75 do know what they're voting for?

It's YOUR poll. It's YOUR statement that everyone is well-informed and knows exactly what you're talking about.
Burden of evidence is on the prosecution there.

Burden to proof what? Its a thread asking for people's opinion on GW .
must you assume for everything there needs to be 2 sides debating? You know there are people
that sits in middle and see whats going on without feeling the need to claw each others throat out.

It's a thread asking for people's opinion on Games Workshop's PRICING STRATEGY .
Not their company aspects, or even the company itself. You're asking if they employ a specific pricing strategy, which is in fact(if true) employed by virtually every other company in the tabletop wargaming hobby.
And as for the burden of proof aspect--It is YOUR burden to prove to me that your 80 "Yes!" votes aren't the results of ill-informed malcontents misunderstanding the idea of premium pricing.

I am not trying to derail your thread. I'm trying to get it back on track. That's why I've been talking about premium pricing and not about other posters being aggressive.

I'm pretty sure noone's even being aggressive or making personal attacks, outside of the validity of the poll's results.

Manchu wrote:I am not trying to derail your thread. I'm trying to get it back on track. That's why I've been talking about premium pricing and not about other posters being aggressive.

The thread is back because shuma is replying , i have been awaiting for his reply all this time.
Thank you for your effort though.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty sure noone's even being aggressive or making personal attacks, outside of the validity of the poll's results.

No of course not , why do you think i like shuma ?
where is this personal attack comming from kan? i dont see them

@Kanluwen: I agree with you about the (in)validity of this poll but TBH I cannot think of any way to prove that the voters did understand the definition of premium pricing. If there was a poll that asked "Is the Earth round? Y/N" and 80% of the respondents answered "no" how could you prove that they understood the terms "round" or "Earth"?

if GW is really setting premium pricing , why is warjack more expensive?

Actually I said that they competed nicely and fairly evenly, all the while being more expensive than clix games and flames of war while being less expensive than traditional model kits and more esoteric foreign customs like gundams or limited run kits.

( if yes , i'll get to the 2nd part )

I knew from the time you asked why I used the comparison you were attempting to set me up for a second followup question. Just try and make sure it actually references what I have said, rather than what you are trying to imply I have said.

Its funny , as aggressive as he sounds , i like shuma , i even made him an awesome face last year.

It's simply how I respond when I feel it necessary. It's nothing against you specifically, I combat opinions and statements, not people. Were all just text on a screen here.

ShumaGorath wrote:

if GW is really setting premium pricing , why is warjack more expensive?

Actually I said that they competed nicely and fairly evenly, all the while being more expensive than clix games and flames of war while being less expensive than traditional model kits and more esoteric foreign customs like gundams or limited run kits.

( if yes , i'll get to the 2nd part )

I knew from the time you asked why I used the comparison you were attempting to set me up for a second followup question. Just try and make sure it actually references what I have said, rather than what you are trying to imply I have said.

Its funny , as aggressive as he sounds , i like shuma , i even made him an awesome face last year.

It's simply how I respond when I feel it necessary. It's nothing against you specifically, I combat opinions and statements, not people. Were all just text on a screen here.

No shuma , there is no "set ups" its easier for me to ask and reply bit by bit because past experiences i have find people misinterpret my sentence on purpose (granted its my own fault that i cannot present
long well written statements , for this i do acknowledge and apologize sincerely ) to the point that its impossible to back track and clear up the misunderstanding.

This way , we are 100% sure what each other is talking about , sounds fair? No set up , no tricks?

K so , basically what i wanted to say , to the PP you mentioned earlier , why i dont think its fair to use PP to compare GW's pricings

Say if GW is charging premium pricing
PP then follows charges similar pricing for similar products.
GW wont automatically raise their price to make it "premium" just for the sake for been premium.
Because customers are already at the threshold.

What? This isn't about "fairness between Privateer Press and Games Workshop's pricings". This is about Games Workshop utilizing a price scam.
The proof we've got so far:

Fact:
Games Workshop's prices are not out of line compared to Privateer Press(their closest competitor).
Fact:
No evidence can be brought forward showing that Games Workshop prices their stuff outside of anything other than what people will pay for it.

How is this hard to understand?
Overpricing != Premium Pricing.

W wont automatically raise their price to make it "premium" just for the sake for been premium.
Because customers are already at the threshold.

Then they aren't premium priced. They can't be a premium product just by wanting to be. Without a consistently higher price point than their direct competition they simply aren't premium priced. They are expensive certainly. Far more than they should be in my opinion, but thats simply not what premium pricing is.

This is about Games Workshop utilizing a price scam.

Premium pricing is not inherently a scam.

It's a fair point. Loius Vuitton purses or Sony TVs are only going to be so expensive if middle-class Americans are going to buy them. But the counter argument, as Shuma already seems to have indicated, is that GW's current prices are in line with their prices from before WM/H were significant competitors: that is, they were higher than some miniatures and less than others.

GW has always operated on the basis of the denial of their competition. They practically pretend their competition doesn't exist. They talk about "the Games Workshop Hobby." They don't go to industry events like GAMA or GenCon.

You can't pretend your competition doesn't exist and then also try to stir people into believing that because you're priced higher than they, your product must be better. Better than whom?

Premium pricing is a specific thing. It doesn't just mean "high prices". Shuma's example of the Thunderhead and the Trygon perfectly illustrates that GW is not pricing their product much higher than PP in order to give the impression that their product is worth more.

You can't do that and simultaneously pretend your competitors don't exist.

I believe Forge World functions using the premium pricing strategy. In this case, they sell things at a premium price over the regular citadel miniatures offering. People actually do value Forge World stuff more because of the cost of getting it. It has some serious nerd chic much like paying more for a designer handbag.

frozenwastes wrote:GW has always operated on the basis of the denial of their competition. They practically pretend their competition doesn't exist. They talk about "the Games Workshop Hobby." They don't go to industry events like GAMA or GenCon.

You can't pretend your competition doesn't exist and then also try to stir people into believing that because you're priced higher than they, your product must be better. Better than whom?

Premium pricing is a specific thing. It doesn't just mean "high prices". Shuma's example of the Thunderhead and the Trygon perfectly illustrates that GW is not pricing their product much higher than PP in order to give the impression that their product is worth more.

You can't do that and simultaneously pretend your competitors don't exist.

I believe Forge World functions using the premium pricing strategy. In this case, they sell things at a premium price over the regular citadel miniatures offering. People actually do value Forge World stuff more because of the cost of getting it. It has some serious nerd chic much like paying more for a designer handbag.

Yep. Buying a Forge World kit is like buying a Master Grade kit or a limited edition video game.

You're shelling out more for a higher expectation of quality.

Kanluwen wrote:What? This isn't about "fairness between Privateer Press and Games Workshop's pricings". This is about Games Workshop utilizing a price scam.
The proof we've got so far:

Fact:
Games Workshop's prices are not out of line compared to Privateer Press(their closest competitor).
Fact:
No evidence can be brought forward showing that Games Workshop prices their stuff outside of anything other than what people will pay for it.

How is this hard to understand?
Overpricing != Premium Pricing.

Lol i dont even understand your point anymore kan .
Who ever said anything about price scams and calling GW price not fair?