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I'm simply not interested in the fantasy fluff or models. Not saying that that might not change some day, but I'd be as likely to play LOtR as WFB. It's really not a question of rules or gameplay for me.

40k on the other hand really appeals to me in it's fluff, and in the models, especially IG.

nintendoeats wrote:

Augustus wrote:40k Missions
Tanks
Guns

QFT

Also...Bigger Tanks and Guns...

Indeed!

Where's the WHFB Apocalypse?

Right, no gots!

They have rules for WHFB Legendary battles. It was covered in multiple white dwarfs and they have the rules for it online

Right here, in fact.

Optional rules online don't count.

Answer me these WHFB:









With this?

Fail

STOMPA=AWESOME!!!

Indeed, when it comes to large kits Fantasy just can't compete.

I started in fantasy in 5th, and played it for many years, through 6th and into 7th. I love my Fantasy Armies, and I'm hoping that 8th will reinvigorate my enjoyment of the game. Right now I've stopped playing, because even when I'm winning, the game play is not much fun.

My ongoing frustrations with the game are these:

1. Movement Rules. (Especially charging)
- Fractions of an inch become way too important
-Everyone measures wheels differently (resulting in much different total moves)
-There is no way to send more troops in to back up troops from another unit in a fight, if all frontage is taken
-Also, troops can never engage a model out of their charge arc, even if it's a single guy, 1" away from a unit of 20 frenzied, blood-crazed warriors.
-The game also seems like a it's a game of tactical movement, but the movement rules are so rigid and the size of board so small for units on this scale, that effectively, there is not much possibility of redeploying or reacting to your opponent. You must plan and deploy correctly, or you're toast. I like a game that allows me to adapt to the situation as it unfolds.
(By contrast, in 40k, though I am at times frustrated with things like vehicle movement, the game is very fluid, though movement is still CRUCIAL thanks to the limited ranges of the most effective weapons and the importance of claiming objectives. Movement is just as important, but fiddling with blocks of guys and turn-arcs isn't.)

2. No Counter-charge option. This is probably the biggest dislike I have for the current game. Such a huge benefit is gained from charging, that I find the game often goes to the army that can wait the longest to pull off a charge, while the army that tries to get to grips risks over-extending itself. It seems to punish players who want to get in there and fight the battle. It also just rubs my "Suspension of disbeliefometer" the wrong way, as it doesn't make sense that unit of say, cav, would just stand there on their horses and get charged by the opposing cav....

3. The Only Mission in the Rulebook is Pitched Battle

4. The importance of characters and magic. I want these elements to support my army-scale game of fantasy battles, not dominate it. Unfortunately, I feel like the latest books are taking us right back to 5th ed "Herohammer".

5. The unrealistic effects of weapons - Greatswords were used to break the weapons of pikemen, not to hack through armor, chariots weren't used to crash into infantry formations, longbows were shot in great clouds of arrows, why can only one rank fire? By contrast, in 40k a weapon generally does what I feel it should - a missile launcher blows holes in tanks, a flame thrower crisps guys, and a machine gun shoots guys way across the table.

That's a whole wall of text, but I feel strongly about this is as I finished painting my Khorne army and got really excited to play my Lizardmen with the new book, only to just box both armies and put them back in the closet after playing several games (win and lose) with each.

By contrast, my friend and I are going to be starting up playing Warmaster, and I think this game is going to scratch my fantasy itch whilst avoiding the annoyances of WHFB. In fact, I was amazed when reading it, that WHFB has not adopted much of the game play, as it seems like a much more strategic game - with resource management in the form of orders, many more tactical movement options, more room to maneuver, the ability to back up units in combat by pouring more infantry in behind them, simultaneous combat, and lots more that has me thinking it will actually be fun to play, whereas fantasy feels like a chore.

Finally, from a modelling and painting standpoint, 40k is much more rewarding personally. Their is more individuality to the models, and there is more of a chance to appreciate them on the table top in a dispersed formation.

Finally, a game of 40k, with the rules for scoring, random game length, seize the initiative, reserves, etc., offers much more of a strategic game, with balancing risks, advantages, and probabilities, whereas Fantasy is so very static that a lot of times (barring freak dice rolls) game outcomes can be predicted from turn 1 based on the lists and deployment. 40k is much more dynamic, and involves making more decisions at each step of the game. Saying that it's all "rolling dice" disregards the strategy behind playing the odds. And fantasy is just as much of a crap shoot - no matter how well played the game is, a failed break test on a critical unit can practically end the game, whereas I very rarely have seen the demise of any 1 unit in 40k decide the game.

I'm not getting my hopes up for 8th, but if they can reboot Fantasy in a similar fashion to the reboot of 40k in 5th, I'll try it again.

Hmmm, I will agree Fantasy doesnt have all the huge models that 40k does, with the few exceptions of the FW stuff, so you got me there. I have long wanted a apacolypse style book for fantasy, hopefully this will change with the new stuff FW plans to be doing with fantasy!

Because it isn't about the player using the army correctly,its about the army and how bent it is

Farmer wrote:Because it isn't about the player using the army correctly,its about the army and how bent it is

QFT, though I am a big fan of Fantasy as well.

I prefer sci-fi to fantasy...thats it.

Big vechiles, big guns. Good lore that doesn't depend on just one hero saving the planet. and its not just 12 races its around 15134.

I like both game systems equaly and i play both of them, even thou there is the phalic increaser tanks in 40k (cough cough shadow sword)