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Redundancy vs. Spam: Where to draw the line?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





The problem some people have with "spam" lists (including myself) is thus: When two balanced, redundant, yet diverse lists face off, it is a game of chess. When one of the lists is spammy, it becomes a game of checkers or rock/paper/scissors where matchups and dice matter more than manuevering and target priority.

Examples:
If a Nid Tervispam Horde list squares off against an 18 Missle Launcher Long Wang Razor Spam space wolf list, no amount of clever manuevering is going to affect the outcome of that game. Only the dice rolls and the fact that the nids are at a serious disadvantage, matchup wise, have any real impact.

If you take two evenly matched spam lists, like Leaf Blower and Nob Biker (or Ghazwagon), then its entirely down to dice (particularly the roll to go first).

This is why I don't like playing spammy lists, as you inevitably placing yourself at the mercy of your dice and what matchups you draw. If I bring my Mech Guard list that has a little redundancy (everything in pairs), then there is some manuevering and generalship thrown in the mix. I am not saying building a powerful spammy list denotes a weak general (quite the opposite, since list building is one of the most important aspects of generalship), but a lot of times when you run that sort of list you are pretty much playing off of a flow chart once the armies are on the table and generalship matters far less than most other factors at that point.

As for what defines spam, like I said earlier, the rule of two is where I draw the line, unless the army list is limited or themed in the troops department. Specifically, Green Tide I would consider themed (2 mobs of Slugga and 2 of shoota, maybe one Hard Boyz) as is Eldar Jetbike lists. Not exactly a lot you can do with those armies, in terms of variation. On the other hand, 4 Tervigons and 2-3 10 man gaunt units is pure spam, as is 18 Long Fang ML and 8 Razorbacks.
   
Made in us
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator





Cambak wrote:People often say I go to far when I field 5-6 squads of veterans with triple melta in Chimeras ( Mech to counter a place with all mech armies).

I've never seen these lists do particularly well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Phazael wrote:If you take two evenly matched spam lists, like Leaf Blower...

Every time someone refers to mechanized IG as "Leaf Blower", God rapes a kitten.

And Darkwynn's list wasn't spammy at all. Mediocre? Sure. Spammy? Not at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/16 17:11:12


 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Phazael wrote:Long Wang Razor Spam space wolf list
Wait... uh... what?
Polonius wrote:Don't be afraid of calling a beautifully painted, incredibly fluffy and well themed list very powerful. Look at horde orks!
I would call my Sisters lists fluffy, and they're competitive...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/16 17:36:48


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Burbank CA

And I would call an Ulthwe fluffy army uncompetetive. It's all down to whether the fluff actually lets you use good units

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Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Alexandria

The manticore is ordinance barrage you draw cover for ord barrage from the center hole of the template, in effect this ignores most terrain, and almost all unit given cover.

In adddition the callidus assasin i ally in's a word in your ear pulls kff meks 6" aaway froma s large a groupa s i can to deny kff saves.

This also doesnt mention the fact every chimera has hull heavy flamer with1 pcs n 1ccs 4x flamer squads. And grenade launchers ... Its not hard to tabl;e horde orks by turn 3, unless they all reserve and have abd luck coming in ... then it might take to 5-6 lol.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2010/07/16 20:27:24


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Made in ar
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Princedom of Buenos Aires

Melissia wrote:
Phazael wrote:Long Wang Razor Spam space wolf list
Wait... uh... what?


Well, you know, it get's longer as they grow older xD

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/17 02:41:23


   
Made in us
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator





Dark wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Phazael wrote:Long Wang Razor Spam space wolf list
Wait... uh... what?


Well, you know, it get's longer as they grow older xD

I thought that mostly applied to their balls?
   
Made in ar
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Princedom of Buenos Aires

Now you know where the "Are you happy to see me or you got a Lascannon?" came from xD

   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver







Wow, this is the longest discussion of any topic I've ever started. Awesome! Usually I get a couple of posts and that's it. Well, I guess I found a hot button this time! I guess that the line is highly subjective, but in any case I have my opinion and he has his. I'll do what I must but try not to go overboard with it. Though I do like the Eldar List posted by Just Dave. That would be bad-ass! in a tourney environment.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

Madness! wrote:I guess that the line is highly subjective, but in any case I have my opinion and he has his.


I completely agree and that this should be the perspective taken when it comes to redundancy/vs. Spam.
Also, thanks for the mention! I thought that myself when I posted it.

Anyways, you've now also managed to get your longest ever thread locked for Necromancy also! Congrats! (probably)

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