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Agree 100% on the terrain. My number one gripe the entire tourney was the weird terrain placing. It wasn't a friendly game. TOs should place the terrain and it should never move unless they do it between games. My other gripe about terrain was that much of the tables contained no terrain that blocked any line of sight. In fifth edition, random sparse trees screw Eldar tanks and made me a little sad. It's ok... Vypers make sweet movable terrain.

However, the terrain that was there was very well done. The tables, which I told them in feedback, were beautiful and well constructed. The 2 foot sideboards (although upon hearing about them I was skeptical) were a huge boon and I was thankful for the care taken to make such awesome tables.

The cost didn't really seem very much worth it. Did I have fun? Yep. I had a ton of fun and met a ton of cool people. My first tourney in a really long time (since 3rd edition) and overall I was underwhelmed by the tournament experience. The tournament seemed plagued by hiccups (mentioned in previous post) that really called some of the results into question as well as dispelling some of the hype of 'GRAND'ness many of us were expecting. The friday night fight tourney had the same problem as I played a guy after I lost to Mike C that had massacred his previous opponent.

The players and the matchups made my weekend. Playing Mike C's Mega-dread IA8 list on Friday night, Matt's blob guard and the awesomely beautiful Storm Warden marines were highlights there. Seeing Yermom's daemons in action was also a highlight. (congrats to him on best general).

The swag. Yea, ditto above, but in a geeky way I enjoyed the themed swag even though it was useless. I hate multi-templates and won't use it, but it's a keepsake I guess. The gift bag giving normal plastic templates and plain white dice was a bit meh... anyone in the tourney would have to show up with that anyway (but I lost my scatter die so at least that helped me there)

The bits bag was really weak, but I'm thankful they at least had those fed-ex'd after the WarStore broke down in New York and couldn't make it. $125 had everyone questioning the value of the bag, etc.

I think themed dice would have been more awesome. Everyone uses dice. I liked the Fez(plural?). I really don't care they were 65 bucks too much as it allowed us to easily find a TO type person for questions. Again though, if it came out of the 125... it's just another questionable cost.

Overall: I'd go again, but not at 125. The Friday Night Fight was 15 bucks for 3 games which for 140 made my weekend an 8 game time. Without that, I think the price per game or price for what you get is pretty low on the scale compared to similar venues I've seen advertised.

The price isn't a hit on the team organizing it. The only hits on them were the things with pairings and terrain placement. The scenarios, players, tables, etc were all great.

the terrain was amazing, the people were even better, and I managed to grab 3rd best general with hoard orks. but not army domination for some reason...
I'd love to do it again, but not for $125

The venue was nice, I actually like the hotel restaurant and the downstairs bartenders were nice enough too. The tables were nice...probably a bit too nice...I'm sure that's factored into the price of the tournament but I am not really in a position to complain because I love beautiful terrain and I love well done tables....this tournament definitely had both. It also had ample room! It's nice to not have to rub butts with some large guy through your whole game.

Both of these were minor gripes really and won't keep me from attending again, just something for them to work on for next year.

The pairings on Friday night were wacky but luckily it was a good chance to fix things so that it wouldn't happen on Saturday so no one was really too bent out of shape about that either. Friday night was more about having beer and rolling dice anyways!

Saturday the pairings by VPs were a bit of a disappointment for many though for me it didn't really affect my pairings too much since I was rolling with pretty high VPs (meaning I was going against winners).

On Sunday game 4 was paired correctly and I think we even started on time. The only negative issue on Sunday was how long results took to tally....for those of us with 6+ hours of travel ahead of us it was pretty demoralizing!

Also the quiz seemed like something that should have been timed and not open book and should not have counted towards the overall score. Separate category sure...but not the overall!

Good stuff:
Venue was nice with reasonable rooms.
Restaurant had great deals on breakfast and a decent brunch buffet.
Tables were above and beyond to say the least in both terrain and the sideboard.
Results were posted each round so we could double check the scores and also so we could play endless scenarios in our heads of who we may get paired against : )
The multi template was a nice touch though I probably won't use mine...next year give us a set of 3 mechanicon templates....would be MUCH cooler!
Trophies were great and there were a ton.
Prizes were inconsistent it seemed (value wise) but there were a lot and they were generally cool stuff.
Checklist painting was rather transparent though there were a few shockers in there (there always will be though).
Did I mention the organizers were all personable and nice guys? That means a lot at a tournament like this.

Overall I'd give the tournament another chance but I'd like to see that price come down (drop the side events and the room upstairs maybe?)

NotMatthew,

I agree on the quiz being yonky. I forgot that part. An open book all-day quiz really means nothing except what connections you have. That's not something I want tested at a tourney (even though I roll with a smart-phone).

I think it should be on overall score however. It's a hobby. This hobby is also about playing a game that has a decisive feel to it. Knowing more about the lore and story makes you a better opponent and more fun to talk to and play against. I hope they score it next year but give the players a sheet after lunch, have them sit down next to their opponents and knock it out in 10 minutes .. closed book. Scored or not, test the player, not the phone/ipod/pdf/books/whatever.

I was the purple tyranid player, Casey Christopher.

I think Mat pretty much summed up my feelings rather well. Really nice folks, plenty of room (possibly my number one issue with many tourneys), and a nice venue were very pleasing to me.

I personally would've liked to see static terrain though. Terrain placement turns the tables into relatively boring designs with people obviously shoving terrain into corners and directly in the middle clumped up. I admit I did it myself, but only to the extent I was really just trying desperately to get cover for my 4 big bugs, which was rather hard to find. The tables I played on had few large pieces, with mine and Mat's game being the exception.

My opponent's were super, and I'd like to give out a special thanks to Mat for being a great opponent. That was my best game, and he earned a good win through a rather difficult battle for both of us.

I too would like to see the quiz be apart from the rest of the scoring.

I'm not sure about what was said earlier about not having to play people you traveled with, as I did in the last round... I even specifically asked and they said go ahead, so we did. Not complaining at all, just a note of interest.

The number of people that received prizes was really cool. I was particularly impressed with that.

Congrats to all who placed. Thanks to the organizers for their time and effort in putting it together. Not the best tourney I've ever been to, but I'd say above average.

I'd attend next year.

@Zain: Good to pair a face with a dakka name! Casey right? I can see your point with the quiz...I just happen to be flufftarded so any quiz will put me out of the running : )

@perrin: And you're Casey too! Agreed, that was a hard fought game and had more twists and turns than any other in that tournament. Had the outcome been reversed you would have found yourself on table 1 in round 4 and then who knows what!

@NotMatthew: Yea, I'm glad I got to pair some faces with some names too. Also, it's OK to be 'flufftarded,' even if you aren't, I doubt you could convert today's date to imperial standard in 10 minutes closed book. The questions would invariably be much easier than that.

As an aside, great word usage! =)

I personally had a great time, and have no real complaints, well, other than to agree that while the terrain was gorgeous, I would like to have seen more of it, especially LOS blocking.

Great games against great opponents (even with a hangover)

Ted.

Thanks go out to all our volunteers who worked hundreds of hours for free. They gave up their gaming for months as well as their entire weekend to provide a great event without compensation and even paid for their own Fezzes.

Without all our volunteers and sponsors we could not do something like this.

The names of the 40K Grand Tournament winners are now up on the site. Full Points breakdowns will be up soon as well as tons of fantastic photos.

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/

Now for some of the recent comments. I will not get into long discussions on the boards now as it is now my time to relax. Comments were taken from the attendees and we will consider all of them when we plan for next year.

A couple quick replies -

shrinedawg, first off - welcome to Dakka. If you had looked at the convention agenda, you would see that every round started within a few minutes of the posted times as well as the results being announced.

You are correct that the pairings were not to the liking of some of the players and all made sure to post their comments on the feedback form. Out of the 8 or so that mentioned pairings, some wanted top winners on top winners, some wanted top winners on low winners and almost everyone else had no problem with it. We will listen to the comments sent in.

Terrain covered 25% of the tables, staff ensured this and when they were questioned, they moved all the terrain to a corner and proved it covered 25%. Having Judges placing terrain is an option. The landing pads got the most negative complaints out of all categories of comments (about 15 comments) so they may not return. To allow the internet audience in on the skyshields, there were 5 of them over 35 tables. I am surprised that out of all the comments on the cards, no one specifically mentioned the rivers, there were 7 rivers out of 35 tables and they were new this year. Also the rules pack mentioned that all terrain must be away from the edge of the table. Many players were trying to put pieces on the edge for more shooty lanes and we caught quite a few and corrected them. There were also over 50 large LOS blocking pieces.

Cost? again? We know about how much an event costs - oh and did you notice it was accessible room for a guest in a wheelchair? How many other events even plan that in when considering space and layouts regardless of who is attending or how many event can accommodate a guest that needs assistance? We could fit a lot more tables in but you would not have good emergency egress or accessibility. I am sorry, but the price will not come down to cheat on those areas. Fezzes were bought by club members who gave up their time so you could game. There were over $3000 in prizes handed out as well- with 30 prizes for the 40K GT and not even including a load of trophies.

The other room was only a partial bust. Our main vendor (which had been agreed upon months ago that they would get exclusive vending) had their truck break down on their way. We lost a great sponsor, the players lost a cool part of the event and I am sure The WarStore is not happy to have missed it as well. The Privateer Press events did not get many players but we helped another club get starting running events and that has nothing to do with the 40K event.

The Blood Bowl Tournament in the second room was a smashing success with the Adventurer's Guild Blood Bowl League running their second tournament with us. Once again we are helping other clubs run events at our venue and we will be the clubs attending Cabin Fever and Berks Spring Assault when the other clubs host their own gaming events.

The Charity Auction for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society raised a bunch of money for cancer research and support.

Our first Painting competition was there Saturday night as well as Steve Jackson Games demos all weekend long. All in all it was not too bad up there.


Notmatthew - we heard your comments about your quiz at the event and we went back and checked. You did not answer the same as Alex on one question and he had gotten it correct.

You are correct, the Friday event was about having a beer and playing with lists (IA) that you usually cannot do outside of a club. It was an opportunity for guys to get more games in while we get set for Saturday and we got a chance to give away lots of great loot to the early birds.

There were only a few folks who did not like the pairings, we will look into what might help but once again we are a hobby event. A couple suggestions were a bingo ball dispenser and go full random - Hail Discordia!

Again, the agenda had results set for 5pm and that is when we did them. This allowed players to pack their armies, get some final army photos, grab a bite or drink, hit the bathroom and be back at the end. I am pretty sure all the awards were handed out by 5:20 because we were back at the workshop at 6pm with the last of the supplies to unload.

We will continue to have a quiz and continue with a hobby themed event.

Army domination went to an IG player who was 4/0/1 with more battle and victory points. When you asked, we were in the end of moving all the tables, terrain, computers, supplies etc. out to the workshop.


Thanks again to all the volunteers, sponsors and attendees for helping us have a great event!

I had a "grand" weekend for sure and the tournament was a lot of fun and I hope that the criticism doesn't take away from that fact!

There are pros and cons to every tournament, thanks for taking the time to address some of my comments!

Tironum wrote:There were only a few folks who did not like the pairings, we will look into what might help but once again we are a hobby event. A couple suggestions were a bingo ball dispenser and go full random - Hail Discordia!

I'm probably in a minority on this particular section, but I think that's a splendid idea . No more "table #1"! Just randomness... imho, a great idea given the style of this event!

Cheers for posting and I hope you guys do a concurrent blood bowl event next year, which I would love to attend (as I'm just starting it at this moment, and am somewhat nearby).

As Notmathew said,

It truly was a Grand Tournament, and minor bumps in the road aside, the atmosphere really did remind me of the old BWI GT days.

Friendly games, with lots of laughs were had by all.

Probably not the enviornment for you if you are just in it for the "Power Game" aspect of the hobby, but if you like to play games and hang out with friends from all over the country, this is the perfect setting.

It perfectly suits my gaming style, and I will definately be attending again next year.

I had fun at the tournament but I think it was well overpriced and unorganized for a grand tournament.

I've only been playing for 6 months or so and the Nova Open was my first tournament. Since that's all I have to compare this to, this tournament really made Nova look extremely good.

I was traveling on Friday so I didn't get there by noon to enjoy the Friday night tournement and the only other 40k even was the kill team which the judges in the front of the room couldn't direct me to who to go to for information. So that left me only playing in the main event. For $125, the swag bag was useless and contained more advertisements then actual items.

The tables like everyone said were very well done and the terrain was nice. Another piece at each table would've helped and if they were static that would've been great.

The players were very nice. A couple players pulled a few things on me since I wasn't as experienced but that was the minority.

The pairings were an issue. The point of a swiss style system is that top players play top players. That didn't happen each round on Saturday. On Sunday, they tried to have that happen but when the last round pairings went up, I was the 8th seed playing the 6th. 5th through 8th talked to the judges about it. Not only did they not care, they didn't even try to figure out what was going on even though that was the round that all the prizes came from. I ended up losing in the last round and the person that beat me won the whole event. I'm not saying the results would've been different but the pairing definately should be.

The judges were nice but didn't know the rules as well as I would've thought. They couldn't give references to why a rule was the way it was when they ruled on a scenario. This happened twice and even though 1 time it was in my favor, it didn't seem fair that they couldn't explain why that was the case.

It was nice to have space at a venue but I definately won't be coming back. $125 + hotel costs was far too much for what was given back to the players. Nova put this tournament to shame by comparison. A smaller fee will get more people to come. As it was, only 46 40k players attended the main event and many tables were not even used.

The players made the event fun still and I'm about that.

Different strokes and all that... if a tournament styled like the Nova Open is your preferred format, I could understand why this wouldn't be to your liking.

Other than anecdotal things, it looks like your main complaints are:

1) The cost
2) The pairings... particularly being the 8th seed and playing the 6th (presumably instead of the 7th) seed in the last round

Seeing as how you knew the cost going in and what was being offered, and the pairing was off by 1 position (possibly to avoid having people who travelled together playing together? as it seems they were clear that they would be doing) I don't see that you have very much to complain about...

Not trying to pick a fight here but I hate seeing the "I wouldn't go back" comments on the interenet after an event that it seems everyone had fun at, when one of the principal reasons being mentioned over and over again is cost for what you get, when it seems that that should've been very clear beforehand.

It apears most of the negative posts regarding this event are from the minority of the player base more concerned with trying to "win" the event, as opposed to the majority of the people who were there to have a fun weekend.

I have been going to "Grand" Tournaments for over 10 years (I have the T-shirts to prove it ) and I can honestly say this was either the best, or 2nd best event I have ever been at (Philly Tourney several years ago was a blast). I came to the event with 4 other vetern GT attendees and they concurred with this assessment. We all left the event saying how much of a great time we had and that we will definitely be attending next year.

With regards to price, neither myself nor the people I came with can ever remember paying less than $100 for a GT Tourney, and this goes back 10 years. I cant, nor do I enjoy, trying to play 6-7 games in a single day. I will gladly pay this price for 3 full days of gaming, in a hotel, with a bar and a resturant.

For anyone who has never been to a tourny and is thinking of giving it a try, I highly recommend this event.

The venue was good, the event was well run and everyone I spoke with expressed how much of a good time they had. People need to keep in mind this is not the fooking Olympics, its a room full of grown men moving make believe army men around a table yelling WAAAGH! and "For the Emperor" for cripes sake. Winning the event or placing in the top three isnt going to help you out on a job interview and is definelty not going to help you get a date, its a game. If winning and or having everything run like a swiss watch is so important to you, take up chess, or scrabble.

I dont mean to flame, but the guys who put this together put in a hell of alot of work and I dont think this thread is giving them their due.
I dont know these guys, never met em before this weekend, and I cant tell you their names, but I made sure I went around at the end of the weekend and thanked then for a great time.

Overall it was an excellent event and I am looking forward to next year.

Keith

lets not forget that the warstore was committed to coming and from my understanding they were contributing to the swag bags. unfortunately they had a transmission blow out on the way from long island down to west chester, something that was unforeseeable.

i had a great time and while i did have a few questions as far as how the pairings went, i still had a great time and played some great games.

Wampum, if you dont mind me asking, who/what army did you play against in the final round? as far as i know, Jawaballs won overall and i know who he played in round 5..

orkimedese wrote:It apears most of the negative posts regarding this event are from the minority of the player base more concerned with trying to "win" the event, as opposed to the majority of the people who were there to have a fun weekend.

FWIW I think you are mistaken. I saw plenty of min-maxed armies there that were completely un-fluffy. Don't get me wrong, I had a really good time, but the number of those armies I saw were far more than a "small minority" IMO. If you want to be a "hobby" event, I'd suggest some form of comp to enforce that desire. I know some people don't like it, but frankly it's the only real way to enforce a fun event over a competitive one IMO. Of the five games I played I must confess at least one of them was entirely unenjoyable due to my opponent's army choices.

The pairings issue is entirely valid IMO. The event was advertised to be using Swiss pairing and that did not happen, at least until Sunday anyway. Tournaments should not advertise one thing and do another.

As for the terrain issue, I too noticed players moving pieces out of the way to insure lots of LoS and little cover. Sorry, the tables may have had "25%" terrain, but what was there was often not very useful for cover or anything else. The little collections of walls, etc. are a prime example. Suffice to say the least enjoyable part of the event was IMO the terrain. Either it wasn't all that useful or it got moved out of the way. In short, if you weren't shooty Guard or some such then the terrain was effectively against you. This is the first tournament I have been to where players were allowed to move it around and I have been attending tournaments around the world since the mid 90's. I would personally never implement this kind of system in an event for all the reasons people have already mentioned. While I liked this event I don't know that I would return as long as you retain this mechanism as it is entirely too abusable. Even fun players are apt to try and place it to their advantage since it's just human nature to do so.

I like the quiz thing, but having it be open book for so long only served to prove who had internet access on their phones and who didn't. It certainly didn't test anyone's "knowledge" of the 40K universe. If you are going to do a quiz, set a time and a time limit, say 10 minutes for completion and make it memory only.

I do think $125 was a bit steep for this event.

I also think holding the scenarios until the actual round was entirely unjustified. Even fun players want to be able to know what they are getting into. I play a very fluffy list and frankly, had I known what they were I would have brought an entirely different army. While I would recommend Mechanicon to others, I don't know if I will attend another event that hides their scenarios until the last minute. Sorry, but I think players should be able to at least see what they are getting into before they attend. This and the terrain issue were the only truly negative elements of the event IMO.

Good things:

1. The quiz. I just wish it had actually been implemented better.

2. The prizes. Very well done and a lot of cool variety.

3. The awards. Very cool, though I've never been keen on the Army Domination ones since if you play one of the unpopular armies you are likely to win an award even if you lose all your games. Just my opinion though.

4. The venue. Lots of room to play was awesome and the extra space for models on the tables was way cool. Very few events have the space to do that and it's one element I really liked.

5. The hotel was nice, though not spectacular. Very good breakfast buffet though.

6. Staff were friendly (even if the fez's were a bit goofy) and helpful. Thanks to everyone who helped putting this on.

7. My opponents were fun and enjoyable to play, particularly my first game which was against Alex Cauldwell (Ultramarines). Outstanding opponent, really good player and a beautiful army. All I could ever ask from a game really. Thanks mate!

Dislikes:

1. the fact that I had a headache all of Saturday :-(. Thankfully four Ibuprofen and two aspirin that night killed it.

2. No place to buy superglue at the event :-).

Cheers, Gary

silashand wrote:

orkimedese wrote:It apears most of the negative posts regarding this event are from the minority of the player base more concerned with trying to "win" the event, as opposed to the majority of the people who were there to have a fun weekend.

FWIW I think you are mistaken. I saw plenty of min-maxed armies there that were completely un-fluffy. Don't get me wrong, I had a really good time, but the number of those armies I saw were far more than a "small minority" IMO.

From what I can tell, silashand, orkimedese was referring to the attitude of most of the players (there to have a good time playing)... not army composition. People commonly bring min/maxxed lists to any tournament regardless...

Obviously, I wasn't there... I just think it's a shame that in one breath many of the posters in this thread could mention "everyone had a great time" and in the next slam the event and say they wouldn't come next year.

It does seem like most people had a great time... and if people really want to give constructive feedback, I'm sure there are better methods than posting them here. Not that people shouldn't share their experiences- it's just that there's a way to do it that I am sure would be more beneficial to those who worked so hard on this event and actually give better results.

Pairings were definitely messed up for the 5th round, not just "not to the likings of some of the players". At least at the 3rd and 4th tables for the 5th through 8th ranked players in the final round. The player standings through four rounds were posted, so I took it to one of the staff and asked what was going on. The answer I received from the guy on the computer that was posting scores, etc, was that the 5th and 6th ranked players were buddies that had travelled together so the pairings were changed so that they wouldn't have to play each other. This also slpit up the 7th/8th pairing, who had also travelled together. Now to split buddies is fine for the first round, even the second round of a longer tourney. But regardless, you do not alter pairings in the final round based on buddies, club affiliations, etc. You rack them and stack them and they play whoever they draw. Basically, what it did is screw one of the 7th/8th players out of a chance for a prize, expecially when you consider that 5th and 6th both won something, but if they had faced each other, one might have lost and been bumped down in the standings. Whereas one of the 7th/8th players might have won and moved up in the standings, garnering a prize. Course, they could have all played to draws (as the top table did) and really changed the course of the standings.

Timeliness. Sorry Tony, but at least one round started a half an hour late. After a 1 1/2 hour lunch break.

I would also prefer set terrain, even tho I'm one of those IG players that will try to build my little castle when given the option. Witht he sideboard areas, there's no excuse for the terrain not to be set and left. Lots of room to display armies for painting, between games, etc.

With that out of the way, all in all, I had a good time. Saw some friends I haven't seen in a while, hopefully made some new ones, got in five good games, even with getting my butt beat down in two games. (I'll get you next time, Nick!!) The tables were very nice, but I also felt unsatisfied with the terrain gamewise. Just one of those things.

Finally, how to say this. I don't know if some players just didn't know the rules that well or were taking advantage of newer players. I goofed on something in my last game and have already sent Tony an email about it. So Bill McFaddon, if you're out there, consider our game a victory for you, which is what I've asked Tony to do as well. To some of the others out there, here's some rules for you to think about (not from my games).
Death or Glory attacks are resolved against Front Armor.
If Straken fails to stop a Tank Shock with a DoG, he is removed from the table. He doesn't just take a wound or pass it to a bodyguard. He's gone.
It is permissable to measure movement, and even if you measure the full 24" that a fast skimmer can move, you can move any portion of it or not move at all.

RiTides wrote:orkimedese was referring to the attitude of most of the players (there to have a good time playing)... not army composition. People commonly bring min/maxxed lists to any tournament regardless...

Hmmm... hadn't thought of it that way. However, the response posted by one of the staff indicated they considered theirs a "fun" tournament which to me would include comp, but no worries.

Obviously, I wasn't there... I just think it's a shame that in one breath many of the posters in this thread could mention "everyone had a great time" and in the next slam the event and say they wouldn't come next year.

I'm not slamming the event at all and I did have a great time. However, there are certain things I require in order to actually return and the two of them I mentioned (static/more useful terrain and pre-posted scenarios) are IMO absolutely necessary if you want good players to attend. This goes regardless whether the event is primarily a "fun" or "competitive" one. JMO though.

Cheers, Gary

Don,

Thanks for owning up to that mistake. I made a few mistakes in games myself. Thankfully it was usually just forgetting to do the Guide psyker test every turn BEFORE moving, which usually my opponents were amiable about the first time at least.

The skimmer movement thing is a bit cheezy if you use it quite obviously to gain advantage outside of movement (ie measuring relative charge ranges, etc) but as long as it's exactly what you describe it's fine. I think someone would just take a hit in sportsmanship if it was an obvious thing.

As to the pairings and the comment that we shouldn't complain and have a great time in the same breath... 1) you can have fun but decide something isn't worth what you paid to have that fun. 2) you can also know that there 'will be a swag bag' or 'prizes' or 'swiss pairing,' paying for all that while betting 'on the coming' as it were and still be disappointed. You never expect anything sub-par or with hiccups when paying.

I, as I said, probably would go back if the price were lowered a bit next year. Again, that's not a hit on the guys running it as they were all personable. I can only go to 1-2 of these things per year, that's why cost is such a big deal. I can pay 50(ish) per tourney for 2 tournaments or put my eggs into the Mechanicon basket for over twice that. I did get a prize for Sportsmanship on Friday Night Fight's tournament and I'm quite proud. I had a great time, but I can't afford how much I spent at that tourney and still get to go to anything else during the year. Since I don't plan on going to anything until Nova Open next year, it's not a huge deal this time... but next year is a different deal. Criticism from what I've seen has all been good-natured and everyone had a great time. I challenge Tony and the TO's to take the criticism in that vein. Lowering the cost to run the tourney might be an option to get more people to attend and fill all the tables. Or, make it more exclusive and ignore people's input on cost as overblown. The tournament prizes were great, but there were some areas that could have been slimmed with very little to no impact on the overall tournament feel. The bitsbags, multi-templates, templates, dice, sponsor bags, advertisements, etc could have been changed to a few custom Mechanicon dice and I would have been ecstatic for example. The cost of running extra events that no one signed up for was a problem as well. (It's a darn shame..) No one really played BFG (like 2 people) and the steamroller events were relatively vacant. Essentially it was a 40k tourney, not a Con. The painting events, auctions, etc could have been done in the main ballroom with little to no impact on the games.

These are all just thoughts obviously. All anyone was saying about the cost is that the return needs to be obvious, and when you charge that much people will instantly question baubles they feel they wouldn't use. It's a product of the economy and how people feel about the expense of the hobby.

Make the swag bags a little more interesting, themed swag more useful, and I think people would have largely not been bothered by cost in the long run except those directly affected by pairing issues late tourney.

Ztryder wrote:lets not forget that the warstore was committed to coming and from my understanding they were contributing to the swag bags. unfortunately they had a transmission blow out on the way from long island down to west chester, something that was unforeseeable.

i had a great time and while i did have a few questions as far as how the pairings went, i still had a great time and played some great games.

Wampum, if you dont mind me asking, who/what army did you play against in the final round? as far as i know, Jawaballs won overall and i know who he played in round 5..

It was actually me who played Jawaballs in round 5 and the awsomeness of my dice rolls handed him a 20 pt victory, and the overall Tourny Victory

Going into round 5, I was 15th place, Jawa was 16th.
Never met Jawa before, was the first time meeting him or seeing his army.
I played shooty guard with an Inquisitor element, he played shoot BA.
Overall I felt we had an excellent game and he was a fun / fair opponent.
The way the armies matched up, if a few things go my way I could have beaten his army, they did not and he tabled me.
1st round of shooting, Jawa went first and didnt do much, on my turn I hit and penetrated all but 2 of his vehicles, I didnt roll higher than a 2 on the damage rolls....
Jawa adjusted, realized he couldnt outshoot me so he stormed across the table and had the BA do what they do best, chop me to pieces....
It didnt go my way, but Jawa was a good opponent and he played well.
FYI, I am the guy mentioned above who's Pask/Vanquisher shot 14 times in game 2 and missed 12 times...
Jawa went to #1, I fell to #31.

Great weekend and I will be back next year.

Ork, my question about who wampum was playing was because i knew beyond a shadow of a doubt he wasnt the one who played Jawa in round five. I was wondering who he played. I assume he played against the demon army that came away with best general otherwise his comment about getting beat in round five by the person that won the whole event was wrong.

shrinedawg wrote:
Registration
Cost
$125 per person for 40k. Yeah, $125. There were 46 40k players present. The room cost $3600 for 3 days. That leaves $2400. The 8-ish TO's had $65 custom Fez hats on. The other room was huge, a complete waste of money and was barely used. I'm wondering where the other $2400 went.

I'd guess that it went into their respective bank accounts to make boat payments and what not. Who said putting on a tournament was a non-profit affair?

I don't think that's a fair assessment. The guys there definitely weren't trying to line pockets. The knocks on cost weren't due to perceived greed at all. The prizes for the events were generous.

As has been posted, they each even paid for their own (rather expensive) hats to stand out so that people could find them. No profiteering conspiracy going on here... and no reason to throw that accusation out there without good reason, either.

olympia wrote:I'd guess that it went into their respective bank accounts to make boat payments and what not. Who said putting on a tournament was a non-profit affair?

And you're wrong.

Hotel costs have skyrocketed in the last 5 years. I personally have looked at the rates at the hotel Mechanicon used, and 30 others around Philadelphia. Huge increases in renting them out, especially if you aren't a wedding ordering 10k in catering. One place I called sounded 'reasonable' at only 5k for the weekend. I figured 100 people, 60.00 each, and I could just do it. "And what catering do you need?" Uh, no catering maam, gaming tournement. But 100 guys will be eating in your resturant 2 times a day, probably. "OH, so Sorry, then it's 10k for the weekend".

Mechanicon lost a lot of money the first year, paying for tables and scenery. I hope that they broke even this year. They are not putting anything in their pockets, and put in 100's of hours of work into the event. I saw the guys looking like zombies the week before, getting 4 hours sleep a night, and running by my shop to pick up flocking, prizes and other things to get ready for the tourney. They were working their asses off.

Any accusation of them running it for a profit is dead wrong. As pretty much is an accusation about anyone trying to run GT's. Hell, you can make a ton more money putting those hours in at a Mcdonalds.

MC is correct. There's no real money in tournament organization; maybe when you get to 1000+ attendees a year you'll make a few grand to put into future years and keep the thing improving, but it's not a major money maker, and frankly ... sacrificing the integrity of your event for $1000-$2000 split 6-7 ways? If that much money matters at all to you, stop running tournaments. You better have at least some PERSONAL financial depth and free spending money to run one of these in the first place, b/c you're going to dig into it instead of that next video game or 40k army.

Negotiation, and working prices down is key - you don't want to charge your attendees more than they can afford, or more than is fair, but to presume no matter WHAT is charged that us organizer types come home with a fat wad of dough is absurd.

Mike - regarding hotels, maybe we can share notes; we've been able to get pretty good rates in comparison to the ones you mention, at pretty "fancy" spots in the middle of DC ... and without catering; maybe a few lessons learned exchanges or something will help all of us TO's.

For ANYONE thinking of running an event - your room block is the biggest leverage point, and knowing the right time of year; hotels make almost no profit off their ballrooms, and they make relatively minor profits off food sales ... in comparison to their margins on guest rooms. That's the real kicker - the more people you can get to stay at the hotel, the better off you are ... get ENOUGH rooms filled, and you get your event space for free, even tens of thousands of square feet of it. Course, the corollary is also true - if you don't meet the room block limits, you pay out the bum.

Mechanicon is designed as a smaller, more unique and "grand" affair, where it doesn't drag in hundreds of attendees ... and focuses on really nice tables / side boards / space for those they do make room for. As such, they aren't likely to fill a huge hotel block, and so probably have to pay out the rear for their event space ... cut 'em some slack, or know the facts next time you want to expound on the boat-payments of a TO and his staff.

+1 Mikhaila and MVB

Which is why it is critical to the event to stay at the venue whenever possible.

Having been through a number of hotel negotiations over the past 9 years it varies a great deal. Time of year, area, etc..can change things dramatically. Most of this space is used by businesses doing training orholding corporate meetings, folks weddings, and large catered events. When the economic times depress the market for corporate activity hotels are hungry and will be flexible.

Main issue is that for our types of events we require a great deal of floor space per person compared to most other shindigs.

Just watch out for the AV charges, or if the hotel requires electrical outlets and whatnot to be turned on at $75.00 a pop : )

Why is it an "accusation" to suggest that a TO might turn a profit (modest perhaps) on an event?