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The MechaniCon 2010
Putting the GRAND back into Grand Tournament
http://www.themechanicon.com/

November 5–7, 2010

Holiday Inn West Chester
http://www.hiwestchester.com/
West Chester, Pennsylvania, USA
Discount rate info: http://www.themechanicon.com/1/category/hotel-information/

A three-day gaming convention brought to you by

The Gaming Garage, L.L.C.
gaminggarage AT gmail DOT com

· Featuring a two-day, 70-player Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament, an official Games Workshop Independent Tournament Circuit event


Other great events and features include:

· Warmachine/Hordes Steamroller Tournaments
· 40K Veteran Tournament
· Blood Bowl Tournament
· Battlefleet Gothic Tournament
· Zombies!
· Munchkin Tournament
· Open gaming and Registered events
· Iron Ogre Painting Competition
· Bits Trading (info coming soon)
· Charity Auction (info coming soon)
· Great prizes, cool swag and t-shirts
· Concession stand and wet bar in main convention hall
· Vendors area - featuring The WarStore

Limited space is still available for clubs to run events and for retailers in the dealer room. Also welcome are volunteers to help with convention staffing. If you’d like to be a part of one of the premiere events in the Northeast, contact us today!

Other convention details:

* Located in West Chester, PA, about 30 minutes from the Philadelphia Airport and 30 minutes from Wilmington, DE
* Easy access to major roads and highways
* Shuttle service available from the airport



Automatically Appended Next Post:
MechaniCon News - September 5, 2010

There are only two months to go until MechaniCon 2010! We have tons of exciting things in store for this year's convention so come back every week for the latest and hottest news.

This week we have two great features to tell you about.

The WarStore sponsorship and vending

We are pleased to announce that The WarStore will not only be a sponsor — supplying prizes for events and bits bags for registration packs — they will also be the main vendor at MechaniCon!

The WarStore booth will be loaded with tons of gaming goodness, including Battlefront, Games Workshop and Privateer Press miniatures.
http://www.themechanicon.com/1/the-warstore-sponsorship-and-vending-news/2010/08/


Iron Ogre Painting Competition

You can’t have a top-quality convention without a painting competition, so this year we’ve added the Iron Ogre Painting Competition.

All registered attendees may compete in the competition. We even have a late entry time on Saturday if you’re playing in the Grand Tournament and want to enter models from your.

Categories for the competition:
Category 1: Warhammer 40,000 Single Miniature
Category 2: Warhammer 40,000 Squad
Category 3: Warhammer 40,000 Vehicle
Category 4: Single Miniature Open – Any genre and manufacturer
Category 5: Single Large Miniature Open – Any genre and manufacturer
Category 6: Wide Open Competition – Any genre and manufacturer
Categories 7–12: Staff Competitions

You can download the complete rules pack here.
http://www.themechanicon.com/1/iron-ogre-painting-competition/2010/08/

EDIT: my concerns about cost have been well addressed!

Just to hop in on this, this is something that I've also chatted with frgs about and as far as I gather, is our main reservation, along with about 4-5 guys in my gaming group.

It's not that I can't afford $125 dollars, its purely that I don't know exactly why I'm paying that much, when from an outward view, and I'm NOT saying this is fact, this is just what I've felt I've gathered from talking with people in the community, those who went last year, etc:

There aren't a ton of prizes (like nothing of the constant box giveaway style nova sprung on us during the event)
The cost of other indy GT's for instance conflict and nova, was well under 100 dollars (more in the 50 range)

So if the prize pool is indeed smaller (from what I've gathered, not fact), and the cost is 2.5 times as much..?

If the Mechanicon guys wouldn't mind answering (although I know you're busy) it would definitely help make my mind and that of others up if I just knew where the money was going, why it was costing so much, etc. For a games day sort of event I see when my ticket costs a large amount, because theres make-and-take events, seminars, etc., but if I'm going to Mechanicon for the tournament..why is my tournament ticket 125 dollars?

Thanks, Target

MechaniCon has a lot of similarities with the older GW GT's. We are aiming for providing the BEST GT experience out there, not the cheapest. At the same time this is a hobby event, not a money making business and we only aim to break even. The core crew organizing this have been veterans of the GT circuit since the beginning (1997) and we have put our efforts into providing a real Grand Tournament level event. There are tons of events out there that use the GT label, we are trying hard to live up to a proper example of a Grand event.

Here is some information about running an event like this, including individual items for an honest comparison to other events.

Event Coverage-

This is a labor of love and does not really cost us anything. Check out last year's media gallery to get an idea of the tables/terrain/prizes/after event coverage:
http://www.themechanicon.com/afmg/2009/


Club Participation

Everyone in our club participates in making the event happen. There are no local players getting a leg up with insider info or favoritism. We are doing this because this is the kind of event we believe needs to continue. Everyone in the club has donated all they can to help make this happen.


Tables and terrain-

The tables were built for tournament play. Each table top playing surface is 4' x 6' with a 2' sideboard for display boards/casualties. Each table top is uniform throughout the entire event - there isn't a mix of sheets of plywood and/or felt mats. The table tops are built in my shop and we have built 120 tables for another gaming manufacturer to use for their national tournaments.

In addition to the tables being set up well for playing on, there is plenty of proper space between the tables for gamers with army displays to move around safely.

All the terrain was also built specifically for tournament play. All the terrain is mounted on hardboard bases and is built strong. Most areas of each terrain piece have flat areas so you can actually have your model stand where you want it to. Hills have flat tops, ruins have flat areas, things like that were considered when building each piece. All the terrain is also consistent throughout the event - you won't find you got a bad draw, stuck on the table with huge chunks of foam because there wasn't enough scenery.


Venue-

The location is a hotel and conference center, so you can go from your room to the gaming area without leaving the building.

The room rental for three days is the most expensive line item in the budget. Yes, 3 days! We have to pay for Friday to be set up and ready for first thing Saturday morning. In addition to the room rental, there are additional table rentals so that each playing surface is properly supported and has a shelf area for dice/causalities/etc.

The venue is close to my workshop where the tables, scenery and all other supplies are located so there are minimal transportation costs here.

The hotel discount rate is $92 which is much cheaper than similar events. If you take a look at any of the original GW GT's or even most of the current independent ones out there at hotels, the combined hotel room and GT ticket is very close to the same price.

The main ballroom that the GT is in has an inexpensive concession stand with things like $1 pizza slices or hot dogs. The ballroom also has a bar and will be staffed by a bartender.


Trophies and handouts-

We have professionally made, custom trophies and offer more than pretty much any event out there.

We also have custom gaming accessories made as well as special promotional items done.

Each attendee receives a swag bag at registration which includes some of the generous donations from our sponsors. Last year we had tons of generous support and each bag contained about $30 worth of loot and discount coupons on top of that.


Prizes-

Last year we probably had more prizes per attendee than any other event - period. Not sure where anyone heard that the prizes were not that good but they were misled.

Last year, EVERY player in the event walked out with a $20 prize, there were at least 12 battalion-box-sized prizes, and there were huge stacks for the category winners. We did not hold back prizes due to not selling out and again - I doubt any event had more prizes per person last year.

This year we already have many fantastic sponsors confirmed and you can always check the website to see who the latest sponsors are. Prizes, trophies, and giveaways are definitely not areas where we are lacking.


General expenses-

Insurance, website, office expenses.
Supplies for building/repairing tables and scenery.
Storing 40 tables / 300 pieces of terrain.
Fliers, postage, and promotion expenses.
Printing for all the player name badges, tournament packs, missions, registration forms, result sheets, etc..


Other things to do-

Get computers/printers/software lined up for registration and tournament results
Line up photographer
Repairs to tables and scenery
Write tournament packs/event documents
Build and maintain website
Get artwork done
Revise artwork as needed
Establish relationships with sponsors
Collect items from sponsors
Get website listings - tournament pack coverage for sponsors
Get the word out to the gaming community
Respond to player questions
Give up our time to play to work on this again
Set up T-shirt orders
Banking/bills/payments
After event coverage
So much more...



I know that is a lot of information to throw out there, but some folks have asked the same things multiple times going back to last summer. If you are curious about what we offer, we are more than happy to answer your questions.

If you feel that an event like this is not exactly what you want and are not willing to try us out, there are many more out there for you to choose from. If you decide to try us out, then we will see you in just two short months!


Thanks,
Tony

the money thing well... this makes more sense now... I'll buy it It is very expensive I guess to rent space in the area.

Onto the rest of my concerns...

As far as paint scores go, can you post pictures of some sample armies and painting scores? This would make it easier to get a feel for paint jobs and expected scores...

I'd like to do well and win, but Honestly I'm not the best painter... And with how hard you guys make it to massacre... I'm afraid this is going to be a pretty pretty dress up event more than a competitive tourney.

I mean your highest battle points scoring is 74/100 and he didn't win... Is the Highest quality general there a "C+" at best? And the guy who won was a "D+" with the battle points but an amazing painter apparently?

In addition the sports really range from 46-50 for the people that matter... and the quiz looks like it is next to impossible to pass since there are sooo many 0's.... so the Sports look like a non issue... except for the quiz

Unlike other GT's, Machanicon will range between 60-70 players (max.) Wargames Con had a little over 200 players, so they were able charge less ($50.00 over three days), considering the Northeast coast location(very expensive) and the number of players I can relate why it would cost $125.00 per player (still a little high), but I can see why.

For a little perspective guys, I personally have spent over a 100 hours looking for a hotel/convention space in the Philadelphia area that was cheaper than the space Tony has.

Haven't found one yet. The typical conversation goes like this:

"That will be 8000.00 for those two days, and more on Friday, and you have to rent tables from us."

Me:...gasp...uh, ok, I think I can maybe make this work...

"And how would you like that catered?"

Me: catered? Naw, thanks, but we won't need that catered at all, although our hungry gamers will all be eating at your resturant and bar all weekend.

"No catering? I'm sorry, that will be 16,000.00 for the weekend"

Stupidly insane! But they are getting that from weddings and corporate events, and are sold out.

Tony started with certain criteria: 1) Hotel so you can just walk down to your games, 2) Bar and decent food, at decent prices 3) Not a dump. A nice hotel. 4) Good scenery, 8 foot tables.

Those things cost money, and the TO puts out the money up front, then gets a bit back each time someone registers. Profit from an event like this is negligible, and hopefully you don't lose money.

Let's think about that. Raise your hand if you'd like to put in HUNDREDS of hours of work, and then possibly take money out of your ownpocket if the event loses money. Not many takers on that deal. A little easier with GW's support for tournaments this last year, and people like Battlefoam and GF9 and other nice folks throwing out support. But still tough as hell to suceed, break even, and keep going for the next year.

In the event it pays off, and you actually make a few hundred dollars, where does it go? Probably into the next years GT, so you can make it better. Better that way, because dividing a small bit of profit into hundreds of hours of work is depressing when you figure out you would be better off babysitting or mowing lawns for a weekend.)

Sarcasm is really not necessary. -The Mgmt.

No seriously, It sounds like a great event. I have a Q about the Blood Bowl tourney, is it an all day or half-day event on Saturday do you think? (I saw 3 rounds) I have a possible commitment Sunday so I was looking into the Friday night and Saturday day events to see what I could get out of the weekend if I couldn't do the big tourney.

PMed you regarding the BB event.

Theirs a ton of added costs to tournies that people don't quite understand. Just say all of the terrain is covered well then their are tables to be rented, the insurance isn't cheap(nor non refundable). Then the advertising, the down payments to the location for the event itself. Trophies aren't free and often though your sponsors do cover a lot of prizes you still end up buying more. Then just basic costs, more often you end up paying close to $150.00 a person when you factor it all in because you seldom can ever fill all of the positions so more often then not organizers lose money. On the Boston Brawl I lost out around $1200.00 from my own wallet.

I understand why the price is so high now but the $125 just really stands out when other people are charging $50-60 for their events. People really think twice looking that price.

If one area is too expensive you have it else where. I attended Japanese Animation Conventions for their costume and video contests when conventions were fan run before they had the corporate backed Big Apple Anime Fest / NY Comicon. A running question was why is there no event in New York City because many fans don't have cars. The reason was it was just too expensive to run an event in NYC and still make it price competitive with other events. Big Apple Anime Fest/NY Comicon has all these corporate backers that they can afford to do it.

Please posting paint scoring sheets with pictures and scoring comparisons like Frgsinwntr mentioned and missions so people know exactly what they are getting into would be really nice.

If the local hotels are that set on financially raping you, would you consider an alternative city? It might be worth your time to talk to MVBrandt; he got block rates on the hotel, and the tournament was in the convention center next door - which had costs, but likely not nearly on the scale of the hotel issues / hosting / catering.

Seems like you guys have a concentration of events up that way, which is mostly Mike Clark's fault. We need some love further south!

*EDIT* Or Mike just needs to move to Florida?

There's a hundred ways we could cut corners and costs, but note that our mission statement is to deliver the highest quality event we can and do things right.

What Tony wants to deliver is a modernized version of GW's old hotel-based GTs (although obviously with side events for other systems). While the GW hotel GTs had their flaws -- as all events do -- a lot of us old-timers still remember them as some of the better gaming experiences we've had. And we really would like to give today's gamers a similar kind of experience and hopefully raise the bar a little (or a lot).

Honestly, general questions about what people are getting for their money are welcome, because it's not easy to explain how all the little things (and big things) matter if you're never experienced it. IMO we have a whole generation of gamers that have been weaned on "grand" tournaments that we would have called RTTs back in the day (and note that there's not one thing wrong with a good RTT, it's just not a GT). Maybe we should call ours a UGT (Ultra Grand Tournament) or something to drive that distinction home, I dunno.

But ultimately, if we're known as a higher-priced event that delivers a higher quality experience in terms of setting, professionalism, prize support, goodies, table quality, etc...we're okay with that being our niche.

We have a lot more stuff to share about our event, so stay tuned.



Regarding painting, you can reference last year's rules pack for the basic rubric -- with the caveat that I (the head painting judge) have made tweaks for 2010, which you'll see very soon. I've simplified some things for this season, and that should make it easier than ever to get a decent idea of how your army will score. We fully understand that people want clarity.

Generally speaking, with the changes I expect average painting scores to bump up a couple points, with max scores remaining hard to obtain (no one maxed painting last year, and IIRC only one army -- which was beautiful, don't get me wrong -- even came close). Painting counts at our event, but I don't want to hand out a bunch of max or near max scores and create giant disparities. Believe me, we are trying to strike a good balance.

Wish I could come, but with the amount I've traveled this year (including a move), trucking up to Pennsylvania from Florida seems to be a little overboard. If you were hosting it locally, I'd shell out $125 to attend. Given that a lot of what you're anticipating in terms of quality has just been done by the Nova Open, I'll be looking forward to reading about how your event goes, and what differentiates your offerings - seems like the bar has been set for expectations and hyping up a "real GT" or a "Ultra GT" must mean super awesomeness on a scale I can't imagine - I only started gaming with 5th edition, and I don't know about any of the old school stuff. :(

Well the Nova Open was the best GT I been to despite feeling sick that day. It was well run and I had fun. Terrain was pretty awesome especially that Eldar board. I met many people some of them from dakka which was cool. The swag bag was a nice bonus.

With the bar being set that high at the $50 entrance fee I dunno about forking out more then double $125. For $125 it better be more then twice as awesome.

Might give it a try if my friends do but I am seeing them post here and still be on the fence.

Kirika wrote:Well the Nova Open was the best GT I been to despite feeling sick that day. It was well run and I had fun. Terrain was pretty awesome especially that Eldar board. I met many people some of them from dakka which was cool. The swag bag was a nice bonus.

With the bar being set that high at the $50 entrance fee I dunno about forking out more then double $125. For $125 it better be more then twice as awesome.

Might give it a try if my friends do but I am seeing them post here and still be on the fence.

Try going to adepticon.. if you do it right that will be the experience of a lifetime for you and you will spend a TON more then $50.00. As it is Tony puts on a damn good show so the money is well worth it.

Empchild wrote:

Kirika wrote:Well the Nova Open was the best GT I been to despite feeling sick that day. It was well run and I had fun. Terrain was pretty awesome especially that Eldar board. I met many people some of them from dakka which was cool. The swag bag was a nice bonus.

With the bar being set that high at the $50 entrance fee I dunno about forking out more then double $125. For $125 it better be more then twice as awesome.

Might give it a try if my friends do but I am seeing them post here and still be on the fence.

Try going to adepticon.. if you do it right that will be the experience of a lifetime for you and you will spend a TON more then $50.00. As it is Tony puts on a damn good show so the money is well worth it.

I haven't been to Adepticon, but I looked at their prices last year - while I'd agree that if you participate in multiple events / tournaments you'd spend more than $50, that isn't the case here is it? Timing is the real issue; the Mechanicon is coming on the heels of the Nova Open, which was held in a D.C. with open-gaming in the hotel Friday and Sunday, podcasted, televised, organized, catered, etc with a convention center tournament with an on-site bar, all the perks - every participant got back 75% of their entry fee walking in the door with the swag bag prizes, and there was some $5,000 in prize support that got dumped onto people throughout the tournament in raffles, door prizes, a bunch of categories of winners....it was the single best gaming experience I've ever had in every respect, and it cost me $50 up front and travel expenses.

Its hard to *not* compare that experience against every other experience. I bet that people are going to be going to GTs or "large RTTs" for a long time to come and comparing their experience to the Nova Open. I agree with Kirika here - its going to take something miraculous to make ANY event seem worth $125 after the Nova Open did what they did for $50 per head (and a FETH-TON of soliciting sponsors).

So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Totally agree, look obviously you two won't be going hey whatever, but people really loved it last year, and hopefully in the years to come these indy events will get bigger. It's the hope of every organizer to build up an event that will run itself, but as it stands why sit there and harp on the Mechanicon team. People will go if they want and since it sounds like you guys don't like the price then hey don't go and just leave it at that. I personally would love to go this year but I am doing Mikhalias event that later that month(budget) and more importantly I have drill that weekend, and my unit is several months out from deployment so no getting out of it for me.

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Phew. I *REALLY* wanted to go to Mechanicon, but then I moved several states south. I remember meeting Tony at the SVDM and talking to him and some other folks about Mechanicon and being excited to go, I hope they have a spectacular tournament. This was my first year attending non-local events, and I suppose you could say that I splurged. Flying to California probably won't happen again; I ended up spending about a thousand dollars more than I thought I was going to. I would have canceled on the Nova Open after moving to Florida because it turned from a 3 hour drive into an 11 hour drive except that the hotel reservations were already made and of the non-refundable kind, and registration was paid. Going to Atlanta was fun the first time when it coincided with family requirements, but I wouldn't want to do it again, that's a *lot* of driving for a circuit.

Worst of all, my wife wants a vacation and doesn't count any of these weekends around the country as vacation. I suspect I'll have a quiet tournament year next year.

Empchild wrote:

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Totally agree, look obviously you two won't be going hey whatever, but people really loved it last year, and hopefully in the years to come these indy events will get bigger. It's the hope of every organizer to build up an event that will run itself, but as it stands why sit there and harp on the Mechanicon team. People will go if they want and since it sounds like you guys don't like the price then hey don't go and just leave it at that. I personally would love to go this year but I am doing Mikhalias event that later that month(budget) and more importantly I have drill that weekend, and my unit is several months out from deployment so no getting out of it for me.

Eh? The purpose of this post was to get information about the Mechanicon, the reasoning for the cost, etc, and they answered that. If there's one thing I've been enjoying from the Indy GT community in the past few months, starting with NOVA, its the transparency they've been providing in how they do what they do, and the input, questions, and comments they've been listening to. For the first time in...10-15 years of gaming, I actually feel the GT's are giving the players a bit of a voice in how things go down.

I don't think its "harping" on the Mechanicon team, I think it's intended as a discussion, and open discussion regarding big events is a good thing. For way too long its just been "here's what we got. come or don't.". Now the players are getting involved and things are changing to suit their needs more accurately, which will make the scene better for the gaming community as a whole.

Personally I'm still on the fence as to going, but I've gotten the information I need about the cost/etc. after this post, and am now just making my own personal decision based on schedule/availability of funds for wargaming.

targetawg wrote:

Empchild wrote:

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Totally agree, look obviously you two won't be going hey whatever, but people really loved it last year, and hopefully in the years to come these indy events will get bigger. It's the hope of every organizer to build up an event that will run itself, but as it stands why sit there and harp on the Mechanicon team. People will go if they want and since it sounds like you guys don't like the price then hey don't go and just leave it at that. I personally would love to go this year but I am doing Mikhalias event that later that month(budget) and more importantly I have drill that weekend, and my unit is several months out from deployment so no getting out of it for me.

Eh? The purpose of this post was to get information about the Mechanicon, the reasoning for the cost, etc, and they answered that. If there's one thing I've been enjoying from the Indy GT community in the past few months, starting with NOVA, its the transparency they've been providing in how they do what they do, and the input, questions, and comments they've been listening to. For the first time in...10-15 years of gaming, I actually feel the GT's are giving the players a bit of a voice in how things go down.

I don't think its "harping" on the Mechanicon team, I think it's intended as a discussion, and open discussion regarding big events is a good thing. For way too long its just been "here's what we got. come or don't.". Now the players are getting involved and things are changing to suit their needs more accurately, which will make the scene better for the gaming community as a whole.

Personally I'm still on the fence as to going, but I've gotten the information I need about the cost/etc. after this post, and am now just making my own personal decision based on schedule/availability of funds for wargaming.

http://blog.spikeybits.com/2009/11/aporkalypse-now-mechanicon-09-battle.html
this is the last years winners blog. It has his list and his opponents and also how the games finished... two ties.... two minors... One massacre.... MAJOR points from painting... So yea... painting and appearance seem to play a big role in the final scoring of this event... much more so then the deceptive % that it is advertised as...

So, seeing that there are minor tweaks to the rubric to INCREASE the painting scores overall... I am unsure as to how much appearance will influence the final results... Like I said early... earning a "D" grade in battle points and then winning because of painting hardly makes me think of this as a competitive event... (not saying he's bad! just that the battle points seem OVERLY hard to earn!)

Seeing as my paint jobs are about equal to Nick Nanivati's paint scores and also seeing his paint score from last year on his bugs puts me at a 20pt disadvantage vs some of these other paint jobs... in addition to the Difficulty in which to actually score a massacre after reading and play testing the missions from last year... I Don't know if its worth $125 to come out there...

Note I am not complaining, just pointing out how much of an impact the painting scores influenced the over all. I know it was the intent to have very difficult massacres.. but unless you "club a baby seal" things are going to be tough for guys like me who can't afford to have their army pro painted, or don't have enough time to spend 12 hrs per mini making it look awesome...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Empchild wrote:

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Totally agree, look obviously you two won't be going hey whatever, but people really loved it last year, and hopefully in the years to come these indy events will get bigger. It's the hope of every organizer to build up an event that will run itself, but as it stands why sit there and harp on the Mechanicon team. People will go if they want and since it sounds like you guys don't like the price then hey don't go and just leave it at that. I personally would love to go this year but I am doing Mikhalias event that later that month(budget) and more importantly I have drill that weekend, and my unit is several months out from deployment so no getting out of it for me.

I'm not sure what you're reading from my text... I don't sugar coat things, but I am certainly not attacking. I am asking questions from my NJ perspective. NJ people have a harsh way with words :p

I'm still on the fence about attending Mechanicon. It sounds like a great event, and last year's pics and wrapups sell it very well.
It competes with DaBoyzGT for a time slot, though. DBGT is the weekend after, and is roughly the same distance from home (Maine). I can't do both, and DBGT is $75 cheaper.

Honestly, the cost of the badge isn't what determines things for me. It's the cost of lodging and travel. Those add up far faster, and can easily trump the badge cost by half.

Well I guess I approach it from this aspect:
I spend 20+ dollars going out to a 2 hour movie.
I spend 30-40 dollars eating an average meal out for an hour.
I might spend 100-200 dollars on eating a real good meal out.
Go to a professional sporting event to be entertained for a few hours Tickets, Food, Parking well over 200.00-300.00 dollars.
Go to the Zoo, Theater production, go see a band in concert, go to a theme park. I’m spending very similar money for only a fraction of the time.

So in my world 125.00 dollars is a pretty good value for 2-3 days of entertainment. Course that might not be the case for everyone and value can be directly linked to overall experience. Additionally, there are a lot of factors outside the control of the event organizer that might have an effect on one’s overall experience.

Here is my beef. What is the objective here? Is the purpose of this thread to ask legitimate questions about the cost of the Mechanicon ? Seems a more effective method would have been to send the organizers of the event a direct email with your questions? Or is it to call into question the “cost/value” of the Mechanicon, not really seriously planning on attending due to the expense, make some public debate, about it and take the opportunity to point out the “value” of another event. If it is the latter, it’s shameful.

@targetawg - “For the first time in...10-15 years of gaming, I actually feel the GT's are giving the players a bit of a voice in how things go down”

Wow. My response is .. Where have you been? Folks have been stepping up and getting involved in events all over the country for years! AdeptiCon has had a standard open offer for folks to get involved since day one, and hundreds of people have answered the call and gotten involved. It has always been an open process driven by gamers.
Now, I’ll grant you in the NovaOpen case, finally after 10-15 years of “competitive” gamers bemoaning other “events” not catering to their “needs”. Someone from that community, saw the opportunity, stepped up and ran a good event. To that .. I say about time! Outstanding and well done! I look forward to working with Mike and anyone that is willing to step up and take on the challenges of running an event.

Tony good luck with the event. I’ve heard good things about it from a number of people. No event is for everyone and fortunately folks have choices.

frgsinwinter, regarding painting scores, what I said was that I expect the middle-of-the-road scores to bump up a little with max scores still being hard to obtain.

Last year was last year. But note that the average painting score of the top 10 overall finishers was 37.5/50. The top 5 overall scored 39.6/50. So while Nick's score (31) impacted him, it didn't put him 20 pts out of contention like you seem to be inferring. One minor becoming a massacre and that gap is pretty much gone. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see players score more BPs this year, just because it's year two and our returnees know what to expect (I expect Nick in particular to come hungry and loaded for bear, LOL). And again, last year was last year and missions could be tweaked a bit for 2010 (that's not my role, so I can't speak to that).

But yes -- and it seems like we're repeating ourselves on this point -- painting is part of our event, like it is with many, many tournaments on the circuit. Ultimately, NOVA did its thing, we're doing ours, DaBoyz are doing theirs, etc. The indy circuit serves 31 flavors, not just rocky road. And even if rocky road is your fave, maybe you'd find we serve up some really rich and tasty mint chocolate chip. Like our moms said, you won't know unless you try it, right?

I think you'll find -- and I feel our willingness to discuss this here demonstrates this -- that we're responsive, transparent, and open to ideas. However, I'd also say that if you *really* want our ear on some of these points, then attend. That way you can come at us from a perspective of "I see what you're going for and I enjoyed A and B, but I think C and D could be better in this way..." Again, still willing to discuss whatever here, but hopefully you can see how that kind of feedback helps us really hone in on things.

muwhe wrote:Well I guess I approach it from this aspect:
Here is my beef. What is the objective here? Is the purpose of this thread to ask legitimate questions about the cost of the Mechanicon ? Seems a more effective method would have been to send the organizers of the event a direct email with your questions? Or is it to call into question the “cost/value” of the Mechanicon, not really seriously planning on attending due to the expense, make some public debate, about it and take the opportunity to point out the “value” of another event. If it is the latter, it’s shameful.

I think you folks have some sort of insane idea about shady alterior internet motives. I put every effort (as you can read in my post) into pointing out what my concerns were, made sure to qualify that what I was saying was not proven fact but what I had heard, and say that it was a concern of mine and others about attending. How you guys keep jumping into this idea of us never intending on going and just trying to troll mechanicon is beyond me. The mechanicon guys have responded to all of our concerns and explained the event better for us and thats helped me at least a great deal. I actually think it may be the "defenders" of Mechanicon where no attack is intended that may end up creating some sort of weird debate when the original intent was just a call for information.

muwhe wrote:
@targetawg - “For the first time in...10-15 years of gaming, I actually feel the GT's are giving the players a bit of a voice in how things go down”

Wow. My response is .. Where have you been? Folks have been stepping up and getting involved in events all over the country for years! AdeptiCon has had a standard open offer for folks to get involved since day one, and hundreds of people have answered the call and gotten involved. It has always been an open process driven by gamers.
Now, I’ll grant you in the NovaOpen case, finally after 10-15 years of “competitive” gamers bemoaning other “events” not catering to their “needs”. Someone from that community, saw the opportunity, stepped up and ran a good event. To that .. I say about time! Outstanding and well done! I look forward to working with Mike and anyone that is willing to step up and take on the challenges of running an event.

Not quite sure if the snipes at "competitive" gamers were "needed" here...I merely stated that more than ever recently I feel like the player base was being listened to when it came to GT design. Adepticon may have had an open call for years, but I'm no where near Chicago, so I've treated it largely as a non-entity. Not because its bad, but just because I don't intend on flying to a GT at this point in my life.

I think posts like the above quote, whether its intended or not, drive a wedge into the gaming community and end up assuming an artificial divide ("someone from that community" for instance) . Lets stop bracketing people into "competitive gamers" and "fluff bunnies" as defacto categories. All of us are "fluff bunnies" to an extent, and all of us are "competitive" to an extent.

Here's the thing Target when your posting on the internet even if you don'tfeel the deen to as much you should be clear concise and even through out " not trying to start something just asking for further explanation", and this goes to everyone. The reason being fellow tourney organizers understand this much better then most, is that we take a TON of flak and as stated often loose out money and time to prepare and set about a event for others, and we get noting in return. Their is no money thrown our way for doing it, you don't get product, or really anything and the problem being people just constantly bash at you. Now I apologize if it seemed to me that some of you were more so on the attack because well some were, and I believe you when you say you weren't but from an organizers point of view it's a harsh world that really makes you not want to run events because people are just pricks instead of being thankfull for what you do. As stated I don't think this was your intention and tony... sorry it took so long to get out your appriciation plaque... found it inthe basement the other day and went woops though I sent this months ago..

muwhe wrote:
Here is my beef. What is the objective here? Is the purpose of this thread to ask legitimate questions about the cost of the Mechanicon ? Seems a more effective method would have been to send the organizers of the event a direct email with your questions? Or is it to call into question the “cost/value” of the Mechanicon, not really seriously planning on attending due to the expense, make some public debate, about it and take the opportunity to point out the “value” of another event. If it is the latter, it’s shameful.

@Gorgon
Thanks for the answers/Responses. I'll be in attendance and will most definatly has some feed back (Both positive and Things that could be better). I'll purchase my ticket soon. In no way take my questions as attacks. I really just wanted more information and assurance that the event isn't OVERLY tilted to hobbyists over the competitive crowd

frgs, no problem here. I've lived in the Philly area long enough to let NJ/Philly/NY/etc bluntness roll off my back.

Glad to hear you'll make it. You can chat us up at the hotel bar about your ideas. Or over games and beers from the wet bar in the main gaming hall on Saturday night. Or over drinks at any of West Chester's fine establishments (it's a college town).

Here's where I'm supposed to say "not that our club is a bunch of drunks," but...

gorgon wrote:frgs, no problem here. I've lived in the Philly area long enough to let NJ/Philly/NY/etc bluntness roll off my back.

Glad to hear you'll make it. You can chat us up at the hotel bar about your ideas. Or over games and beers from the wet bar in the main gaming hall on Saturday night. Or over drinks at any of West Chester's fine establishments (it's a college town).

Here's where I'm supposed to say "not that our club is a bunch of drunks," but...

Pint of Guinness and some 40k intellectualism? Absolutely! I'll be in Friday, that's a long weekend for me. You guys need help setting up or running the gothic thing?