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H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually what I'd love to see even more than my suggestions above is one of these threads where every third post isn't someome complaining about Marines.

That'd be more awesome than an AdMech Codex.

Like

How would everyone know that someone is a super hip non-conformist if they don't constantly harp on the "poster boys" though?

I would like a Traitor Guard Codex, personally. It would be nice to see my evil cousin >.>

I was think to myself why do tau have kroot ect in there codex. Its simple. they only have 13 units that are actulay tau, giving them 15 in total in the codex. Chaos has 24ish. The "extra" units are there to fill in gaps so to give better options. Who would pick up a dex if they only had one troop choise. Bit sad.

The point of this^ is that there should not be new codexs. Some factions had problems coming up with a desent number of choices let alone taking them out and putting them in a sepcial dex for kroot or something dum

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I believe if you were to combine this with something akin to Melissia's 'mercenary' Codex, whereby the smaller, more add-on factions are included, such as additional rules for Ork Clans, Kroot, Genestealers, Harlequins etc. akin to Eye of Terror Codex for example...

I don't mind the idea of a 40K 'Dogs of War', but I wouldn't put sublists that rely on parent Codices into it (like Klanz, Kroot Mercs, Genestealer Cults). Those types of things should be sublists within their own Codex. One should not need the 'Dogs of War' book and the Tau Codex to field a Kroot Merc army. The Kroot Merc army should just a whole entity, not reliant on multiple books, which is why putting it in the main Tau book makes the most sense. Ditto for Klanz, ditto for Genestealer Cults and so on.

And assuming the lists aren't of the "Look at the Chaos Codex for these rules" and are completely divorced from their parent Codex (eg. the Lost & the Damned list just reprints several units from the Chaos Codex in full) then you end up with a very big and mixed up book.

Sorry, I didn't mean something along the lines of each being mercenaries mixed one one Codex, I meant a Codex akin to the Eye of Terror or Armageddon Codex. Whereby they are sublists. I personally don't mind sublists, but I can see why you don't, but as a business, it makes sense for GW to allow armies that require you to have two Codices (meaning they sell more) and personally, I'd be willing to pay that little extra for the extra customisation/choice. Although I can see why you wouldn't like it.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't mind too much having to look in another Codex for some rules. When it comes to smaller factions anyway, I wouldn't mind this extra 'cost' for the flexibility and choice.

Tek wrote:^The other side of the coin of you get to field fantasy allied-style armies in 40k. Whilst I understand the amount of people who buy the big Eldar book just to run the Harlie list would suffer, it would allow greater flexibility for, let's say a half Salamanders, half Ultramarines army, combining units from each with unique traits.

Yeah, because that would end so well.
You shouldn't get to mix and match uniquely traited units from different Chapters without some form of penalties to discourage just picking and choosing the best things for brainless wins.
A fluff-based composition should account for something and reward you.

Or having a part Saim-Hann force, backed up by an Ulthwe contingency. That's cool enough to warrant "Big Books", eh?

You can do this currently. Saim-Hann is, for all intents and purposes, just jetbikes and Falcon heavy Eldar. Even the Codex: Craftworld Eldar didn't really do that much to make Saim-Hann feel different aside from jetbikes/Vypers to be changed in FOCs and to have a special character.
Just paint your jetbikes in Saim-Hann colors, Falcon mounted troops/Falcons in Saim-Hann colors and then foot slogging infantry/warwalkers/Farseers in Ulthwe colors.
Voila! Fluffy and balanced for play!

I honestly don't think Chaos need more than one book. You can fit both of your proposed books in one, bigger tome. Like the comments above; a big book would feel great, and even at a higher cost and would probably yield a higher feeling of value for money.

Maybe to you, but someone who's only going to use a small bit of it will likely feel annoyed as all hell at having to pay more for a book that they're not going to use most of it.

AdMech could slot nicely into an existing army book. Whilst perhaps not with the level of detail the AdMech fans would like, it could still be a little more than a Techmarine, or an Enginseer.

Techmarines shouldn't be in any kind of Adeptus Mechanicus force. It detracts from what the AM could be, you don't need to toss in Supertechymarines.

Imagine my big imaginary Imperium book. Taking a MotF then unlocks entries in the book for you to take Skitarii (sp?) troops, or crazy spider-tanks or something.
Taking an Inquisitor allows you to take Assassins, or taking a Master of the Fleet allows Imperial Navy fliers to be used in game.

Why would Skitarii be "unlocked" by a Master of the Forge(assuming you're meaning the most commonly known one, which is a SM and has no access to AM troops. Space Marines and Servitors/Chapter Serfs? Sure, a MoTF would have those.)?
Inquisitors aren't the only ones who can call upon the Assassin Temples, Guard higher-ups can too provided they've got the "connections". Now, Death Cult Assassins? Different story and would be a fluffy thing alongside of Arcoflagellants or ragtag bands of heavily armed and highly trained ex-Guard specialists.
Masters of the Fleet don't control the disposition of ground support, the high command of a theater does. "Master of the Fleet" is a fancy way for saying the guy on the ground who would be supervising the disposition of transports landing Guard armour, etc. Taking a Master of the Fleet should allow for things like I don't know...maybe a "Naval Observer" upgrade to Veteran Squads, who can call in an Orbital Bombardment once every three turns.

Having read through this entire thread should show people just what a problem GW has. Some people want a telephone book sized Codex with all the rules for entire races while others say that they don't want to pay for what they're not going to use. Some people want fluff mixed with their crunch while others contend that they should be in 2 distinctly different books (again getting into the "I'm not going to use it. So why should I pay for it" syndrome. In any case it seems that GW is going to get slammed. So I'm going to go with the idea that if no one is happy (or a slight minority is happy) then they must be doing it right.

Personally I'd love to see a generic source book for each race listing common units (and their point cost) with a general history of the race. Then have smaller books with a specialized focus that give the special fluff and rules with the special units. This way you don't have 2 armies of the same race paying for the same item but the item has different costs and rules. As an example in almost every SM codex the rhino is 35 points and has 2 fire points. In the Witch Hunters' codex that same rhino is 50 points and has only 1 fire point. Yet fluff wise they are the exact same vehicle. Or smoke launcher that work the same way for Dark Angels as they do for Blood Angels.

With this system the game can change and GW would only have to make changes to the general codex for a vast majority of the armies in play. It would then be easier for them to make changes to the specialized codex since they are smaller and would need to only address specific issues/units.

Just my two cents.

Bring back the Squats!!!!!
(that's right,I just named They Who Shall Not Be Named!)

I think the two split codexs idea is good, as long as the special units and rules one is smaller and less expensive, no one wants to get screwed over just to enjoy the full force of their army. It be easy for GW to do and obviously since its the goal of all business, they would be making a bit more money.

Kan, I think you raise some decent points, I've tried to be succint below.

Kanluwen wrote:You shouldn't get to mix and match uniquely traited units from different Chapters without some form of penalties to discourage just picking and choosing the best things for brainless wins.

Agreed, I'm not condoning some broken super-army here, but in fact the idea of composing new armies by selecting the full range that the Imperium supposedly has to offer. But you're dead-on with your comment there.

Kanluwen wrote:You can do this currently...Just paint your jetbikes in Saim-Hann colors...and then foot slogging infantry/warwalkers/Farseers in Ulthwe colors. Voila! Fluffy and balanced for play!

Mixed feelings about this. In the 3rd edition (Craftworld) 'dex, there were specific rules for Wild-Riders of Saim-Hann, and Seer Councils of Ulthwe amongst others. These were special, fluffy units dedicated to each craftworld that each had unique rules, traits and points costs, not what we have now, which is identical units in different colours, and just background fluff.

Kanluwen wrote:[re:Chaos book] Maybe to you, but someone who's only going to use a small bit of it will likely feel annoyed as all hell at having to pay more for a book that they're not going to use most of it.

Yeah that one was entirely my opinion. I love the old Chaos Codex though, with the LatD part, and Traitors/Cultists. That was a wicked book.

I think your last comments were you just arguing semantics. I was suggesting units/models that already exist in-game and trying to figure how to shoehorn in the most-wanted Codex of all time. My other points are merely suggestions, trying to use a dynamic which we're already using in 40k to date, and some ideas of expanding that. The name "Master of the Fleet" to me sounds like a man who is in fact in control of a fleet. Like I said, an attempt using an existing model and shoehorning in an existing dynamic. I like the bombardment rule idea.