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akira5665 wrote: If World of Warcraft went from $15 p/m to $30, I wonder how many people would quit playing it?????

very few since when you start playin WoW, blizzard takes your soul

Maxstreel wrote:...force me to go the ebay route. Sorry GW. You've priced me out of buying new models at full price.

IMO there are few decent reasons to pay full retail. As long as you buy legit (not stolen) products GW doesnt care where you buy it, they got their money from the wholesale to the retailer. If you buy direct from them for full retail is just a bonus.

Heres the only times I pay full retail:

1) Its the only option...cant get it anywhere for less.

2) Its something I must have as soon as its available, and the only way to do it is preorder from GW (or PP, etc)

3) Im supporting a LGS. I know its hard for a small games store, so I dont mind picking up a few things at full price now and then.

4) Its something I want RIGHT NOW, and I dont mind spending a couple extra $$ to have it immediately, instead of waiting a week for it to get mailed.


That being said, I do most of my games purchasing online. Mostly ebay. Ill hit thewarstore.com now and then for non-GW stuff.


As far as made in China...dont get too worked up about it. Its all a cycle. Wealthy companies move their business to poorer foreign lands who work cheaper so they can save a bunch of money. This then puts more money in the hands of the poor folks there. As they get more money, they want more. Esp after they learn what the same job pays in other places. Eventually the cost of labor rises to the point where labor + long distance shipping meets what it would cost to make it in the companies home country, and some (rarely all) of the jobs come back, because now they can save money (and time) by not shipping so far. Then the cycle begins again.

Look at tech support jobs that went to India...many are coming back for exactly the reasons mentioned above. That and because of pissed off customers who cant understand a damned word the Indians are saying.


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akira5665 wrote:

Scum and Villainy. Oh, and the Models are AWESOME!

Plastic Crack........

Games Workshop...no where in the galaxy will you find a more retched hive of scum and villainy...


Oh, and plastic crack for sure. At least the plastic crack is easier to work with, and much lighter, than the metal crack they used to sell.

Yeah, my post that was 99% tongue in cheek was taken waaaaaay too seriously by some(Sebs I'm looking at you big fella!)

Yes, profiteering was actully used correctly, in the context that -
1. Nobody else sells the AOBR box set.
2. The templates, dice and rulebook come in the Box.
3. If you want the rules, in a book that doesn't fall apart in 3 weeks - you need to steer clear of the Hardcover version......

Supply and demand, and basing prices on aforementioned factors.

Like after a flood that contaminates the tap water, Mr Profiteer charges $8 for a $2 bottle of water.

Release 5th Ed, make a crappily glued/bound rulebook in Hardcover...

Sell a box with 'all you need'(inc RB) - and as you see the NEED of us Plastic Crack addicts escalate - you double the price.

And I stand by my 'Keyhole Sniffer' call, BTW...


GW Exec, looking at pricing options in AUS..

akira5665 wrote:Yes, profiteering was actully used correctly, in the context that -
1. Nobody else sells the AOBR box set.
2. The templates, dice and rulebook come in the Box.
3. If you want the rules, in a book that doesn't fall apart in 3 weeks - you need to steer clear of the Hardcover version......

Supply and demand, and basing prices on aforementioned factors.

Like after a flood that contaminates the tap water, Mr Profiteer charges $8 for a $2 bottle of water.

No, it wasn't used correctly, it was and remains completely wrong. I'll repeat my point to you earlier, profiteering requires some element of taking advantage of an emergency, such as a flood or a war. Applying the word to a company selling plastic toys makes no sense at all. Please accept this, learn something, and leave the thread a little better informed.

sebster wrote:No, it wasn't used correctly, it was and remains completely wrong. I'll repeat my point to you earlier, profiteering requires some element of taking advantage of an emergency, such as a flood or a war. Applying the word to a company selling plastic toys makes no sense at all. Please accept this, learn something, and leave the thread a little better informed.

Without that last sentence, you were making a valid point. That last bit adds nothing to your point, and potentially detracts from it as people see the tone and ignore the rest of the message.


Let's keep it civil, folks.

The poster that pointed out high overhead is the issue at hand is correct.

Its also nuts that we have GW stores and they make the product. That messes with the economy of the game more then anything else.

spireland wrote:The poster that pointed out high overhead is the issue at hand is correct.

Its also nuts that we have GW stores and they make the product. That messes with the economy of the game more then anything else.

But as has been explained in this thread, a lot, overhead in and of itself isn't a bad thing, if it's part of a successful business model. That GW model has seen them grow the company into not only the biggest miniature company in the hobby, but almost certainly bigger than the rest of the miniature companies combined, and likely by a long a way. Simply saying 'they have high overheads' doesn't do anything, if you don't bother to assess what benefits GW is gaining from those stores. It means there is a place for gamers to play, it means gives a legitimacy to the hobby to parents that an independant store in a smelly underground location can't provide.

There are reasons GW has grown from a start up company run on passion for the hobby to a very large company, while competitors have disappeared, or remained small companies run on passion. They are a better run business than the others.


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insaniak wrote:Without that last sentence, you were making a valid point. That last bit adds nothing to your point, and potentially detracts from it as people see the tone and ignore the rest of the message.


Let's keep it civil, folks.

When someone uses a word incorrectly, you correct them in plain English with an example, and then they just declare their use was fine... what are you supposed to do? At some point you have to call people out on that kind of behaviour.

The Gross profit argument is very shaky, Apple makes about 36.5% Gross profit ($37.5 billion in revenues) and netted about $5.72 billion in '09, and had a 15% profit margin. That's a hell of a lot of money, but they also: Advertise, run their own stores, own the factories that make their products and repair returned or defective items, ship said items from China to the rest of the world. Not saying they're perfect, but they are a pretty well run company.

GW's a lot like Apple in that regard, they eat the costs of all of manufacturing, shipping to distribution centers, runs they're own retailing and has next to nothing for an advertising budget. Reading this investor's readout, they've made quite a few strides the last few years trying to not borrow money in fact they are debt free now.

http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FullYearPressStatement.pdf

And this is why tournaments are great!

Driving an hour to drop $50 on a box of plastic junk that you have to assemble yourself sucks.

Driving an hour to drop $5-10 on a tournament entry fee that gets you a $50 box of plastic junk that you have to assemble yourself sucks less, and at least you got to play games for it.

Stormrider wrote:The Gross profit argument is very shaky, Apple makes about 36.5% Gross profit ($37.5 billion in revenues) and netted about $5.72 billion in '09, and had a 15% profit margin. That's a hell of a lot of money, but they also: Advertise, run their own stores, own the factories that make their products and repair returned or defective items, ship said items from China to the rest of the world. Not saying they're perfect, but they are a pretty well run company.

GW's a lot like Apple in that regard, they eat the costs of all of manufacturing, shipping to distribution centers, runs they're own retailing and has next to nothing for an advertising budget. Reading this investor's readout, they've made quite a few strides the last few years trying to not borrow money in fact they are debt free now.

http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FullYearPressStatement.pdf

No, a technology company grossing almost $40 billion is almost nothing like GW, a miniatures company grossing a hundred million pounds. In this case the gross margin tells you nothing other than that their business structures are very different, which everyone should have known already. Benchmarking needs to be within the same industry, and with companies of roughly the same size. This is problematic with GW, because no other miniatures company has ever managed to grow to anything like GW's size. But then, that really should tell people that maybe their business model is actually quite good.

Has anybody compared them to WOTC? They seem to be pretty similar in most respects. WOTC even had their own stores.

MikeMcSomething wrote:Has anybody compared them to WOTC? They seem to be pretty similar in most respects. WOTC even had their own stores.

Then wisely abandoned that idea imho.

sebster wrote:When someone uses a word incorrectly, you correct them in plain English with an example, and then they just declare their use was fine... what are you supposed to do?

Learning to accept that not everyone on the entire internet has to agree with you would be a good start. If someone you've never met, on the other side of the planet, uses a word in a way that you consider incorrect, so what? The world isn't going to come crashing down around your ears just because some random internet user doesn't meet your personal standards of literacy.

Deal with it, and move on. You don't need to 'call people out' on it. It accomplishes nothing useful, and leads in unpleasant directions that we would rather discussions here not go.

insaniak wrote:Learning to accept that not everyone on the entire internet has to agree with you would be a good start. If someone you've never met, on the other side of the planet, uses a word in a way that you consider incorrect, so what?

No, he didn’t just use a random word incorrectly, that word was the basis for his entire argument. The term ‘profiteering’ was the entire basis for his claim against GW, and that didn’t make any sense because GW is selling plastic soldiers, not exploiting human need during an emergency.

I corrected him on this, and he made the choice that he’d rather keep his argument, instead of reconsider and build a more considered argument. If we want a forum where people can actually debate things, we need to expect a little better than that.

The world isn't going to come crashing down around your ears just because some random internet user doesn't meet your personal standards of literacy.

Except the point isn’t about literacy. I’ve don’t correct people on this forum for spelling mistakes, or for using poor grammar. The point, simply, is about the quality of the argument, and in this case the argument relied on a concept that the poster misunderstood, making his argument poor.

Deal with it, and move on. You don't need to 'call people out' on it. It accomplishes nothing useful, and leads in unpleasant directions that we would rather discussions here not go.

Without people putting some level of honesty into their arguments, and the community expecting that of other posters, the standard of discussion is going to be very poor.

People don’t have to be right, they don’t have to be well read on a subject. But it’s important that when they make a mistake, they are honest enough to admit, and rephrase their argument. If it’s okay for people to just say’ oh no, my argument really does make sense’ when it clearly doesn’t, no-one is ever going to get better?

sebster wrote:I corrected him on this, and he made the choice that he’d rather keep his argument, instead of reconsider and build a more considered argument.

And that's fine. Your point remains just as valid after his response as it was before it. If he chooses not to agree with it, that's his choice. You will never get everyone to agree that you are correct, no matter how right you think you are, or how unreasonable you think they are being.

All of which is getting aside from the point. I didn't post what I did because you corrected him. I posted because you did so in a way that was rude and unnecessary.

Hi all,

Just thought I should jump in and say thanks for the correction. I paid it no heed initially as I felt that when I have made the analogy of "Plastic Crack' it would carry acrross with the idea of a 'necessity'.

Just like when I say "Thanks mate" - It does not meen we are Bald eagles , bonded for life, but in the Aussie Vernacular, a good friend. I understand what my words mean, I understand how to 'imply' meaning.

I'll take that as a learning experience away from this thread, thanks Sebs

But honestly.... Who really cares??

profiteer (plural profiteers)

One who makes an unreasonable profit not justified by their corresponding assumption of risk.

EG- The attorney increased his fee by ten times as much when the judge declared that no one could represent themselves.

(Wikionary)

Or - GW increased the cost of thier models when they realised Johnno was addicted to 40K, and doubled prices over the last few years Dammit

Dashofpepper wrote:And this is why tournaments are great!

Driving an hour to drop $50 on a box of plastic junk that you have to assemble yourself sucks.

Driving an hour to drop $5-10 on a tournament entry fee that gets you a $50 box of plastic junk that you have to assemble yourself sucks less, and at least you got to play games for it.

If only we had more tourneys with decent prize support in the portland area. : <

Dashofpepper wrote:And this is why tournaments are great!

Driving an hour to drop $50 on a box of plastic junk that you have to assemble yourself sucks.

Driving an hour to drop $5-10 on a tournament entry fee that gets you a $50 box of plastic junk that you have to assemble yourself sucks less, and at least you got to play games for it.

And imagine if the gas for driving an hour (and back?) was free too!