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inb4 lock...

Right now the Tau are in a rough spot, they can still compete at a FLGS for a few reasons: The first is that not many people are familiar with all the things they can do, and second not everyone is a world class player.

If orks win through target saturation (Overwhelming the opponent with lose-lose decisions) then the tau win through target priority (targeting the right unit and taking it out)

After being showed proper target priority, other armies seem less scary...

Deep strike can get countered by castling in the corner with 2 devilfishes and 3 broadsides. If done with both sides, your opponent has little choice but to split their army...

Crisis suits can either come off the board or deep strike a far distance away and start to seriously split up the opposing army... Remember vehicles and monstrous creatures need to be physically 50% non-visible to get a cover save, I can shoot through my own units all day long as long as I can physically see half of the vehicles/monstrous creatures...

Overall, I would bring them to a FLGS to win a tournament but at a GT I would imagine that people would be strong enough players to win...

QuietOrkmi wrote:inb4 lock...

Right now the Tau are in a rough spot, they can still compete at a FLGS for a few reasons: The first is that not many people are familiar with all the things they can do, and second not everyone is a world class player.

If orks win through target saturation (Overwhelming the opponent with lose-lose decisions) then the tau win through target priority (targeting the right unit and taking it out)

After being showed proper target priority, other armies seem less scary...

Deep strike can get countered by castling in the corner with 2 devilfishes and 3 broadsides. If done with both sides, your opponent has little choice but to split their army...

Crisis suits can either come off the board or deep strike a far distance away and start to seriously split up the opposing army... Remember vehicles and monstrous creatures need to be physically 50% non-visible to get a cover save, I can shoot through my own units all day long as long as I can physically see half of the vehicles/monstrous creatures...

Overall, I would bring them to a FLGS to win a tournament but at a GT I would imagine that people would be strong enough players to win...

This is essentially correct. My first 40k Army was Tau, and the hard lessons I learned about target priority with them payed off nicely when I started my second army. I do fairly well at my FLGS with Tau, I've won several of the tournaments there with them, but it's a small store that usually only fields 8-10 man tournaments.

The Break Down, however, comes when you have too many High Priority targets, especially if they are not a vehicle.

For instance, lets say you're facing a SM list with a Land Raider, 2 Rhinos, a Vindicator, AC/Las Pred and a few combat squaded tac squads on foot. Priority is easy:
1. Land Raider
2. Vindicator (due to ID on Crisis squads)
3. Rhinos
4. Pred
5. Any troops on foot, in order of how close they are to you.

Now the priority may change due to extenuating factors (like a Rhino got to close to you before it was destroyed, making the troops left a higher priority than the Pred).

But now say you're facing a BA list that has 3 Assault Marine Squads /w Jump Packs and Sang Priests, Librarian Dread /w wings of Sanguinious, Mephiston, and 2 fast Baal Preds.

Priority:
1. The entire army

I dunno, the beauty of the Tau is that we pretty much ignore any combat upgrade you give your guys... What we need to worry about is the things that would shrug off our shots...

Think about... Death company will wipe a squad just as a simple squad of assault marines...

QuietOrkmi wrote:I dunno, the beauty of the Tau is that we pretty much ignore any combat upgrade you give your guys... What we need to worry about is the things that would shrug off our shots...

Think about... Death company will wipe a squad just as a simple squad of assault marines...

I'm not sure that's a 'beauty' or a benefit really. It doesn't really address the point I was making either (there wasn't even a death company in the list :p).

When Tau can divvy up target priority based on what can get to them and assault fastest, they can do ok. When the entire opposing army is equally fast and poses the same threat, *especially* when that speed can't be eliminated by destroying vehicles, the army falls apart. BA are especially difficult, 3+ saves followed by FNP means you may as well just throw the S5 AP5 weapons your army is flooded with into the garbage.

For a little insult to injury, The new Splinter Rifles give the Pulse Rifle some very strong competition for the best basic troop weapon in the game.

On a personal note as a Tau player I haven't had the kind of trouble you're describing kroot loops against BA mostly because I have very little str 5 weaponry lol.

It's mostly str 6+ with a smattering of str 4 (yay kroot) and only gun drones (from fish and piranha) and 12 fire warriors that carry str 5 and the fire warriors hopefully never get out of their ride to begin with.

When you rely too much on torrenting I think you start to have troubles with those kinds of armies (high resiliency, fast, medium model count). Not to say that Tau don't need an update of course but that's the general consensus anyway.

The pulse rifle is a pretty sweet weapon all on it's own but when it's relegated to BS 3 models (regardless of marker light support) it simply isn't THAT good, especially on a 10 point model who's squad can't get any heavy weapons or other support.

Edit: As an additional anecdotal note for some levity, I've had my shas'el punch a captain on a bike to death several times

I have had this discussion with many of my friends who all play 40k.

I love my Tau. I have won many games with my tau, including competitive games.

Saying they suck is just trying to troll, and doing a bad job at it especially if you do not state facts to back it up.

Considering the new codex introduction however, they are a bit out dated and need a face lift much like the other armies did. But to pretend that they are gimp like the Necrons at the moment just goes to say that somebody has bias against them.

I have never been tabled with my Tau, and have tabled numerous opponents, but I have also lost games too. Really it all comes down to dice rolls.


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Also I fight BA regularly. They are a good army, but not impossible for the Tau to beat.

poontangler wrote:I have had this discussion with many of my friends who all play 40k.

I love my Tau. I have won many games with my tau, including competitive games.

Saying they suck is just trying to troll, and doing a bad job at it especially if you do not state facts to back it up.

Considering the new codex introduction however, they are a bit out dated and need a face lift much like the other armies did. But to pretend that they are gimp like the Necrons at the moment just goes to say that somebody has bias against them.

I have never been tabled with my Tau, and have tabled numerous opponents, but I have also lost games too. Really it all comes down to dice rolls.


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Also I fight BA regularly. They are a good army, but not impossible for the Tau to beat.

Ah good times.

Its funny because I swear that my fried makes his army just to counter my tau. I have never beaten him yet eather. (freaky daemon prince with wings)

Just to shove it out there. who thinks its funny that stealth suits dont have the stealth usr?

Have you tried using devilfishes or piranas to physically keep him away from your gunline? I once played against a Tyranid army and found that by having a semi-circle of moving devilfishes, it was tough for him to come near me... Once he did crack to devil fish, there was 6 more fire warriors waiting to stop him from moving 6, running a d6 and assaulting anything behind them.

MrDrumMachine wrote:On a personal note as a Tau player I haven't had the kind of trouble you're describing kroot loops against BA mostly because I have very little str 5 weaponry lol.

It's mostly str 6+ with a smattering of str 4 (yay kroot) and only gun drones (from fish and piranha) and 12 fire warriors that carry str 5 and the fire warriors hopefully never get out of their ride to begin with.

When you rely too much on torrenting I think you start to have troubles with those kinds of armies (high resiliency, fast, medium model count). Not to say that Tau don't need an update of course but that's the general consensus anyway.

Yeah, I don't rely on torrenting. For a Tau army, I also have relatively little Str 5 weaponry, but there is still quite a bit: SMS on devilfish and Broadsides, Burst Cannons on Hammerheads, gun drones on piranha, and so forth. However the Tau only have three weapons that will deny a 3+ save and FNP, those being the Railgun, Plasma Rifle, and Fusion blaster, the CIB will deny it on 50% of wounds. Rail Rifles, Ion Cannons, and the Vespid gun will remove the 3+ save but not FNP.

Just for example, 12 bs 3 missile pods (24 S7 shots) will kill, on average, 1.98 BA. You have two rounds on average to kill 34 + infantry models, an AV 13 walker, Mephiston, and whatever else is on the table, all of which are moving 13" to 18" every turn.

The pulse rifle is a pretty sweet weapon all on it's own but when it's relegated to BS 3 models (regardless of marker light support) it simply isn't THAT good, especially on a 10 point model who's squad can't get any heavy weapons or other support.

If you look at the history of my posts on the subject, I completely agree with you.

poontangler wrote:I have had this discussion with many of my friends who all play 40k.

I love my Tau. I have won many games with my tau, including competitive games.

Yep, me too

Saying they suck is just trying to troll, and doing a bad job at it especially if you do not state facts to back it up.

Saying they are not a strong codex is an opinion backed by both table top experience and math. A win that I had to diligently pull out in the fifth turn is a win that, in nearly every situation, I could have been wrapping up after turn 3 with Orks.

Considering the new codex introduction however, they are a bit out dated and need a face lift much like the other armies did. But to pretend that they are gimp like the Necrons at the moment just goes to say that somebody has bias against them.

Tau have many challenges on the table top that have to do with them being unable to compete in one phase of the game. Yes, they have Kroot, but what are kroot? They are essentially T3 Orks without the things that make Orks good, like Mob Rule and Power Klaws. The only reason I really give Tau the nod over Necrons is that Necrons don't have transports.

I have never been tabled with my Tau, and have tabled numerous opponents, but I have also lost games too. Really it all comes down to dice rolls.

It also comes down to players. I've lost very few games with the Tau, never been tabled, have tabled with them. My Orks have never lost a game since I started playing them. That doesn't mean anything really, aside from 'big fish, small pond' syndrome, because I know for a fact that I am not a great 40k player.

Also I fight BA regularly. They are a good army, but not impossible for the Tau to beat.

I didn't say BA were impossible to beat, I've beaten mech BA with Tau. I said a specific type of BA, that being the all, or almost all, jump with FNP list. It's a hard counter to Tau, but even that doesn't mean it's impossible to beat, the dice are still a factor.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

QuietOrkmi wrote:Have you tried using devilfishes or piranas to physically keep him away from your gunline? I once played against a Tyranid army and found that by having a semi-circle of moving devilfishes, it was tough for him to come near me... Once he did crack to devil fish, there was 6 more fire warriors waiting to stop him from moving 6, running a d6 and assaulting anything behind them.

Jump troops are hard to block since they can just jump over the obstructions. It's why I specified jump troops (and/or Skimmers), the typical blocking manuvers don't work as well, if at all, against them. Even if you do manage to position your DF in such a way to cut the jump short, use melta or melta pistols inside of 12" so your Dpods don't work, bust them open, assault 6" with furious charge into the troops that come out, wipe them out, then consolidate d6" towards the rest of the army, and possibly end up even closer than the jump and run would have taken me.

If anyone wants to look at the Ideas for tau codex thread go ahead.

on a legal note. Me and my friend who both play tau played agenst a team of crons and BA. we won by tabling. killing 40 warrors is not easy and his lord reaserected 5 times!
I must admit that he played the BA dreadfuly. he DS his landrader into a tiny gap between my broadsides and some area terrain. it failed and got sent to the other side of the board. It was the last model to die. If wondering, the monolith got killed on the first hit from a hammerhead.