Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Chrysaor686 wrote:
In order to truly experience everything music has to offer, one must delve into the 'soulless' realm of music theory.
Oh, I agree with this - but I also believe the opposite - in order to truly experience everything music has to offer, one must also venture away from the math and rules and experience the emotional side of music as well. I like Dream Theater, but I also like the Ramones. Each offers something different, but both are music.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Okay, I am officially hacked off. I was listening to Arcade Fires "Wake Up" and I realized that I was mad. I then realized that I was mad becuase I wasn't actually playing music, and have NEVER owned a instrument, and as such, have never played a song, even a cruddy one. Now I'm mad again. This stinks. I REALLY need an instrument
Sooo...What would a good guitar set up (Electric Bass, or just Electric) cost, including Amps? I really am not looking for anything top-notch, just something I can use as an emotional funnel. Shoot, I would be happy with a red cheapo plastic guitar, like Jack Whites first one. Any recommendations?
Bravey
Go get yourself a halfway decent acoustic guitar
I think music stores are one of the few places that still provide good customer service
But beware of anything that seems to cheap as ultra cheap guitars dont really play well and nothings worst then having to "fight: the intrument to get a decent sound outta it when your learning.
You should be able to learn some open chords in a week or two and be strumming away happily
Damn I cant wait to the GW legal team codex comes out now there is a dex that will conquer all.
Stormrider wrote:So Rhapsody of Fire is the gold medal winner at the Special Olympics?
Yeah, that's a moronic comparison. Rhapsody of Fire is still technically talented, but their compositional skills far overwhelm the technical expertise advantage that Dragonforce has, because Dragonforce has very little compositional skill. Rhapsody of Fire stirs the soul with their expertly composed musical pieces involving a wide range of instruments, while Dragonforce impresses the mind with their technical skill with their guitars. And really, all you ever need to listen to for Dragonforce is Through Fire and Flames, and the rest of their music is pretty much just more of that.
In case it wasn't blatantly obvious by now, I prefer the former.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/01/21 05:30:45
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Stormrider wrote:So Rhapsody of Fire is the gold medal winner at the Special Olympics?
Yeah, that's a moronic comparison. Rhapsody of Fire is still technically talented, but their compositional skills far overwhelm the technical expertise advantage that Dragonforce has, because Dragonforce has very little compositional skill. Rhapsody of Fire stirs the soul with their expertly composed musical pieces involving a wide range of instruments, while Dragonforce impresses the mind with their technical skill with their guitars.
They're both still over the top, Dragonforce's songwriting ability is laughable. Calling Rhapsody anything more than a novelty is a pretty large stretch. Hence why I really don't like symphonic metal.
Catachan LIX "Lords Of Destruction" - Put Away
1943-1944 Era 1250 point Großdeutchland Force - Bolt Action
"The best medicine for Wraithlords? Multilasers. The best way to kill an Avatar? Lasguns."
"Time to pour out some liquor for the pinkmisted Harlequins"
Stormrider wrote:Calling Rhapsody anything more than a novelty is a pretty large stretch.
No, I call them the best band of this decade.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Chrysaor686 wrote:Again, fast does not equal technically skilled...it just equals fast.
Fast and accurate, however, is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/21 05:36:51
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Stormrider wrote:Calling Rhapsody anything more than a novelty is a pretty large stretch.
No, I call them the best band of this decade.
Proved by the fact that Christopher lee did albums with them, Christopher fething Lee. The only other band that can claim that is Man o War
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
There are numerous other factors, such as accuracy, understanding of disonance and harmony, ability to keep time (especially when you start throwing multiple time signatures and polyrythms into the mix), how many techniques a musician employs to play his or her instrument, and knowledge of various scales and chords.
There is absolutely nothing technical about Dragonforce's music, it's just extremely elementary scales and hooks, played at a ridiculous speed. Considering that it's a patchwork of studio-edited takes of Herman Li playing for about five seconds at a time (sometimes even sped up with the aid of a computer), it's not a viable example of consistant, accurate speed, even.
If you need some examples of real, technical skill, I'd be more than happy to show you some. Remember, a musician can only be as good as the music he's playing.
Pain is an illusion of the senses, Despair an illusion of the mind.
The Tainted - Pending
I sold most of my miniatures, and am currently working on bringing my own vision of the Four Colors of Chaos to fruition
Stormrider wrote:Calling Rhapsody anything more than a novelty is a pretty large stretch.
No, I call them the best band of this decade.
Proved by the fact that Christopher lee did albums with them, Christopher fething Lee. The only other band that can claim that is Man o War
And? He has to make money too.
He's got plenty of money already, plus he is doing this for fun. Hell he's even made his own album.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
This thread reminds me of some typical banter I read/write on an entirely unrelated music forum. To the unskilled, non-playing ear, a few basic tricks most guitarists learn how to do (poorly) in their first year or so can sound like amazing technical skill.
With digital recording and the ability to cut and paste together guitar parts on a computer, any guitarist can sound like the most ridiculously fast playing wizard of the fretboard if that's his taste. A basic book of music theory 101 can teach you which notes on which scale go well for counterpoint and variations in whichever key, making you seem like you have some kind of 'composition' talent when really it just comes down to a computer programmable math equation.
Yay Herman Li can play fast. That isn't musicianship, it's closer to gymnastics than art.
"Oh yeah?", say the Dragonforce fans, "If you know so much, then why aren't you selling as many albums?" (or like the Metallica defenders, "If they suck so bad now, why do they still sell out every show?"
The answer to that is simple: Amazing skill does not sell albums. playing the game and schmoozing the right scene and having the right look and the right place at the right time and getting pimped by an agent and distributor and payola to radio stations sells albums. There are plenty of old crusty Iron Maiden aged dudes in their basements who can play just like Iron Maiden. They didn't happen to be in Iron Maiden though when the time was right to sell that sound. I doubt if Jack White or Billy Joe whatshisname care much about what a 32nd note is and they are famous guitar players. Likewise, extremely good guitarists are a dime a dozen. They can be found in any guitar shop and there's probably one on almost every dorm floor of most colleges, or in every small town metal band that plays the local bars, but they don't have recording contracts either.
I personally know a guy from a very well known band who I shall not name (but you have all heard of) from the early-mid 90s who confessed to me he doesn't even know what chord he's playing most of the time, he just mashes his fingers around a lot. Most of the music biz is just that. 'making it big' is far more of a job playing the game and the 'biz' side than the actual music side.
I would still rather hear a real musician playing something interesting slowly than what amounts to a computer program playing something 'technical' quickly. Hendrix would roll over in his grave if he heard some of what poses as talent in modern guitar playing, particularly the power metal kids. But for every nay-saying guitar player out there who isn't fooled by the studio tricks and technique shortcuts, there's a hundred non guitar-players who bow down in awe because they don't know how its done. aka fans.
Anyhoo, to the OP, google search for 'electric guitar packages' and you'll get some idea of beginner guitar setups. Usually its a small 'practice' amp, a guitar that is playable, but could use better pickups, and the cable and picks and strap and all that stuff to start off with for between $100-$200 U.S. new. Sometimes, if you dig around your local pawn shop you can find something too (or craigslist) but those don't come with any garauntee so you might have an amp that blows out in a week and sucks for you.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/01/21 06:19:54
I'm both chaotic and orderly. I value my own principles, and am willing to go to extreme lengths to enforce them, often trampling on the very same principles in the process. At best, I'm heroic and principled; at worst, I'm hypocritical and disorderly.
Not that I'm a huge fan of them (preferring the excellent compositions of Rhapsody of Fire instead), but that old rumor about dragonforce speeding up their guitar playing has long since been disproven...
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
So what about people who ignore the music scene and purchase/listen to music based on the fact they like the sound instead of the technical skill that went in to it?
Melissia wrote:Not that I'm a huge fan of them (preferring the excellent compositions of Rhapsody of Fire instead), but that old rumor about dragonforce speeding up their guitar playing has long since been disproven...
If you've seen them live, then you'd eat your words.
Personally, that was the most horrendous show I've ever been to (not that I enjoy their music to begin with). None of the members of Dragonforce have the stamina or composure to play a live show. They can't even finish one of their songs; after the first few minutes they are completely gassed, and continue to fumble around with their instruments in a desperate attempt to please the crowd. Perhaps I caught them on a bad day, but it was bad enough that me and my friends left halfway through their set.
Thankfully, it was payed for by someone who thought I'd enjoy it. He still apologizes to me about it occasionally.
Pain is an illusion of the senses, Despair an illusion of the mind.
The Tainted - Pending
I sold most of my miniatures, and am currently working on bringing my own vision of the Four Colors of Chaos to fruition
Chrysaor686 wrote:If you've seen them live, then you'd eat your words.
Not that I typically bother listening to live music, But... no, I wouldn't.
I saw videos of them in 2006 sucking hard (IE that's when the rumors began to form about them speeding things up), then videos of them getting the notes perfectly fine in 2008. Which means they're inconsistent, but they don't have to speed themselves up.
Dragonforce is a band you listen to the studio versions of because that really is usually the best performance they put on. Other bands and singers are better live, because they are better at improvisation (most Jazz is like this)... so long as you can get over the noise of the crowd and the obnoxiousness of the scene, which I personally can't.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/01/21 13:44:58
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote:So And really, all you ever need to listen to for Dragonforce is Through Fire and Flames, and the rest of their music is pretty much just more of that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/21 14:06:47
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
chaplaingrabthar wrote:I've always wanted to play an instrument (specifically saxaphone) but never had the time or budget (when I have the money to buy a decent starter sax, I notice a new Codex and army that looks attractive, or maybe a new game like Warmahordes or...
Start with toughness 1-1.5 reeds, Rico will do just fine when you're starting. Basic mouth position (ambature, pronounced omborchure) is to curl your lower lip in over your teeth, tighten the corners of your mouth, and blow gently, using your diaphragm, NOT YOUR NECK, to push air through the instrument. So the air should come from your chest/belly, so to speak. Have fun, the Sax is a great instrument.
This is actually the embouchure for the Clarinet . It is however the most common saxophone embouchure, at least here, as alot of saxophone teachers here in Australia actually primarily play other woodwind instruments, and picked up the sax so they could get more work (Reed books.....6 instrument changes in a single song). The technically correct embouchure for the saxophone is shown in the following image as Fig. 5, however the other embouchure does allow for an easier time for the musician to learn the Clarinet, and eventually the Oboe if they wish.
Another tip for an aspiring saxophone player would be to work on not blowing your cheeks out when you play. It makes it harder to get a smooth air-flow, and tends to lend itself to starting and stopping the air-flowing in your neck, and not getting good 'air support'. It also makes you go red in the face, and look ridiculous .
---
Do you have to be a good composer to be a good musician? I'd like to think not. I teach instrumental music for a living, and have played in the show bands for the bigger productions to come down here, but if you asked me to compose a new piece, it would turn out quite poor. I understand and can implement the theory, but my works will never have the soul you can hear in Chopin, Nat King Cole, or, to use the group Melissia has been singing praises of for most of the thread , and are actually quite good, Rhapsody of Fire. They'll never seem alive, there will never be any 'connection' and will always be a technical work.
However, there are other forms in which a musician can express themselves. 'Ad Lib' (Improvisation) is not true composition, but you still have to understand every part of the music you're playing, what chords are coming, what notes are in that chord, and which licks you can fit into that chord in the current key you're in. It also tends to be a form that jazz musicians excell in (Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie being two of the big greats in the 'be-bop' genre). It takes just as much understanding as composition in a way, just you have the backing written in, or made up as the case may be (A jam session with a sax, guitar, bass, drums and keys is a hell of a lot of fun), and work around that.
Music is music. It's emotion, sound and story-telling all rolled into one. It's different for everyone. Some prefer a more technical aspect, while others like to listen to some forms of rap, or other genres, that aren't technically sound, but attempt to forge a connection with the listener through rhymes, and deep, emotional lyrics. Trying to say a genre isn't music, or good music, is just opinion, and can't be considered anything but, unless you actually talk in a technical aspect, but even then, it's only true when 'technically' is placed in front of it. I may not enjoy rap in any form, or any of the new 'teeny' artists, but I accept some do, quite alot....same as others once had to accept (And still do), that I listen to artists they've never heard of (Being a teenager who listens to Dean Martin, Sinatra, Bennett, the Duke, Lady Ella etc. can be quite painful at times. I still remember getting my license, and having people get in my car and ask what the crap coming out of the CD player was.)
Personal opinions are everything in music, you can hate a song that everyone else loves and they won't be able to understand why, but you simply can't connect with it in a way another song that others think less of can.
Music is enriched by each and every addition, whether it's an auto-tune artist such as T-Pain, or someone who's far more technically brilliant (Such as an Opera Singer). It becomes more than it once was, and gives more people something that they can appreciate and listen to..... unless it's Mr. 'I can't hit puberty'.....joking.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2011/01/21 17:05:46
'Follow me, Sons of Russ! This night our enemies shall feel the fangs of the Wolf!' - Logan Grimnar
The Tainted - Pending
. It is however the most common saxophone embouchure, at least here, as alot of saxophone teachers here in Australia actually primarily play other woodwind instruments, and picked up the sax so they could get more work (Reed books.....6 instrument changes in a single song). The technically correct embouchure for the saxophone is shown in the following image as Fig. 5, however the other embouchure does allow for an easier time for the musician to learn the Clarinet, and eventually the Oboe if they wish.
.
, and are actually quite good, Rhapsody of Fire. They'll never seem alive, there will never be any 'connection' and will always be a technical work.
