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Please stop trolling Almarine, you could have said " I do not like Warhammer books, I don't think they have very good writers", a highly contentious opinion, but not a insulting one like the ones you have been blasting at everyone.

Instead you think your on this crusade to enlighten us to read better novels. It might come as a shock to you but I think I can recognise good writing on my own, without someone condscendingly telling me that because I haven't read Hemingway that I don't understand basic writing principles and structure.

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With regards to topic,

I would advise starting with the Horus Heresy books. They are pretty well written and entertaining, at least the first 4 books. Plus for the beginners with 40k universe, its a good starting point.

That said, Dan Abnett is one of the better writers. His books are very popular and generally ver well-received. Personally tho, if you want to start with his books, I would recommend Eisenhorn Omnibus as the LAST one you should read. Not because its bad but personally I feel that it is his best work thus far and the others just sort of pales in comparison. They are still good but imho just not as epic. I was unlucky to actually read Eisenhorn first before Gaunt's Ghost and it sort of detracted my enjoyment of the GG series.

Other than that, if you like Imperial Guard novels, I will certainly recommend the Hammer of the Emperor omnibus.
In particular, Mercy Run and Gunheads by Steve Parker. As much as I'm a fan of Dan Abnett and would gobble up his books without mercy, I actually felt that Steve Parker is a much much better writer than DA, particularly in battle scenes. I'm really looking forward if Steve Parker is going to write anymore 40k novels.

There are a lot more but most are covered by the others already so I'll just mentioned the one that don't seem to be noticed much.

Almarine wrote:
Other than saying they have no taste, I can't really argue with someone whose definition of "good" contains no requirement on actual quality. However, I don't think it's possible to actually enjoy warhammer novels if you understand how untalented and lame the authors are. I don't know if you do understand or if you just don't care, but in either case, how are you in a position to declare something good or not when all you have to base it on is personal opinion? Surely it makes more sense to answer in terms of the objectively true, when OP asks if there are any decent warhammer novels?

Actually, I'd ask the OP what they're looking for in a book. If he's looking for something like an alternate, rarely studied, alternative to the norm I'd suggest Path of the Warrior (and a short story or two from Fear the Alien). If he's after a range of short stories that have a more human approach I'd say PlanetKill (a mixed bag to say the least).

Personally, I hate Space Marine novels. I don't touch them, and I don't give them a second glance, I can't connect or engage with the characters at all. So if that is what the OP is after, I wouldn't be able to answer helpfully at all. And a lot of IG books are...well the author obviously has some strange ideas about military life (One of my few critisicms of a few GG books, where Abnett either forgets this or brushes it away).

Almarine, I'd like to know what 40k books you have read. If anything it will at least go some way to ascertaining why you dislike these books so much.

Faithful, I don't have a Throne of Literary Judgment. I wish I did, but, you know. I'm just a guy who understands a bit about writing - enough to know that a novel can be badly written even if you like it. I believe that probably anyone in this thread could write better than most of the BL crew with some coaching. It's like they're 16-year old amateurs who have no editors. Anyone here ever try to write themselves?

Yes, I've entered (and won) a number of short story writing competitions. Most of these were school based, but I still manage to make time for it between Uni. I understand what constitutes good writing, and I also know that there aren't that many BL novels that will win too many prizes. But there are a good few that are more than decent.

By the way, I would think that it's almost impossible for someone to read 2000 books and still think warhammer novels are alright, but I don't want to call anyone stupid or a liar, so let's just bury that hatchet. Maybe some people just have a knack for looking at the bright side.

It's not like I keep track or anything, but I would imagine I've read 500 books as a conservative guess. And yes, some Warhammer novels are indeed a cut above the chaff of any science-fiction book that you'll find.

Of course that doesn't make me any sort of absolute authority on what is or isn't an enjoyable book (which is entirely a matter of personal opinon).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SonicGear wrote:Other than that, if you like Imperial Guard novels, I will certainly recommend the Hammer of the Emperor omnibus.

Oooh, second this.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Almarine, I'd like to know what 40k books you have read. If anything it will at least go some way to ascertaining why you dislike these books so much.

Personally, I hate Space Marine novels. I don't touch them, and I don't give them a second glance, I can't connect or engage with the characters at all. So if that is what the OP is after, I wouldn't be able to answer helpfully at all. And a lot of IG books are...well the author obviously has some strange ideas about military life (One of my few critisicms of a few GG books, where Abnett either forgets this or brushes it away).

Well, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but if I don't answer this then it might appear as if I didn't read any warhammer books. So, list of warhammer novels I have read:

Heresy I
Heresy II
Heresy III
Heresy IV
This one novel about a lady inquisitor, don't remember the name but it was possibly the worst
Dark Apostle
Cain I
Cain II
Cain III
Gaunt I
Gaunt II
Lord of the Night

There might be some others but that's the gist of it I think. Anyway I agree about space marine novels. They're just not suitable as spotlight characters, with the way GW insists on their superhumanity. Maybe if there were any novels from RT back when space marines made sense.

Hammer of the Emperor seems to get a lot of praise so I guess I'll go with that, unless Space Marine from '93 is any good?

That's what you're basing you're oh so arrogant opinion off of? That list? That's fantastic.

In my defense, people usually recommend gaunt or the heresy series when I ask them for something good. Further, you make it sound like getting through that stuff without starting a libricide wasn't in itself an arduous experience.

You've missed out a good chink of novels that people repeatedly say are good. The Night Lords series for one, a number of Horus Heresy novels, the Ultramarines series. Space Marines aren't always portrayed as one-dimensional as you think. In fact, some novels make them to be very good centers of attention.

Almarine wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Almarine, I'd like to know what 40k books you have read. If anything it will at least go some way to ascertaining why you dislike these books so much.

Personally, I hate Space Marine novels. I don't touch them, and I don't give them a second glance, I can't connect or engage with the characters at all. So if that is what the OP is after, I wouldn't be able to answer helpfully at all. And a lot of IG books are...well the author obviously has some strange ideas about military life (One of my few critisicms of a few GG books, where Abnett either forgets this or brushes it away).

Well, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but if I don't answer this then it might appear as if I didn't read any warhammer books. So, list of warhammer novels I have read:

Heresy I
Heresy II
Heresy III
Heresy IV
This one novel about a lady inquisitor, don't remember the name but it was possibly the worst
Dark Apostle
Cain I
Cain II
Cain III
Gaunt I
Gaunt II
Lord of the Night

There might be some others but that's the gist of it I think. Anyway I agree about space marine novels. They're just not suitable as spotlight characters, with the way GW insists on their superhumanity. Maybe if there were any novels from RT back when space marines made sense.

Hammer of the Emperor seems to get a lot of praise so I guess I'll go with that, unless Space Marine from '93 is any good?

So essentially your opinion was essentially based off nothing, an opinion with which you then proceeded to use to claim every book in the BL was crap. Well done

I know it's hard to get hold off, but I'm surprised nobody mentioned Drachenfels - the only GW book I've held onto over the years. Gaunt was dull, plodding and pedantic. O'Neill's Uriel Ventris series was awful, and to anybody who rates Dan Abnett, then try reading hammers of ulric. I guarantee you'll never read another BL book again.

Drachenfels is a great book with a great herorine who thankfully remains in the Warhammer world - last popped up in Nights Dark Masters - the 2nd ed WFRP supplement - cool.

on the book recomendation front - what sort of novel (apart from Hemmingway) do you like?

iproxtaco wrote:You've missed out a good chink of novels that people repeatedly say are good. The Night Lords series for one, a number of Horus Heresy novels, the Ultramarines series. Space Marines aren't always portrayed as one-dimensional as you think. In fact, some novels make them to be very good centers of attention.

Fulgrim and A Thousand Sons in particular really humanised the Space Marines for me, actually.

snake wrote:

Lord Solar Awesome wrote:The HH series has some really good books in it, and Dan Abnett is a really good author to check out as well.

+1

I've read other 40k and WHFB Black Library novels before. I just finished reading Horus Rising and was blown away. Abnett is definitely as good as they come in BL and it was awesome to be so vividly experiencing the actors and events related to the most pivotal part of the 40k universe. And this was only the first book in the series; can't wait to pick up the next one

+2

I liked the first 6 or 7 Horus Heresy novels, especially Flight of The Eisenstein, really good imo.