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In fact, the new ruleset will not make Eldar more powerful. Its the opposite, as already said above, it may eventually provide a nerf. Now you need units that hold an objective for a whole round. Tactical Marines can fulfill this role perfectly, while Eldar units are rather weak with T3. Wraithguard are too expensive for what they can achieve at the battle field and Pathfinders are a gamble with all those cover-save ignoring weapons out there.

Whining or complaining is not what Eldar players should do when this ruleset will come true. We Eldar players will need to live with it. I always enjoyed playing Eldar when I started them in 3rd ed. Rant over.

wuestenfux wrote:Whining or complaining is not what Eldar players should do when this ruleset will come true. We Eldar players will need to live with it..

Its entirely possible that this is still a hoax, or an early edition of the ruleset and has been changed dramatically.

So if Eldrad is one of the best psychers in 40k why is he only mastery level 2, who is going to be ml 3 or 4.... as Eldar are a completely psychic race this does not make any sense to me....

So sorry to ask again, but what do people think about vectored engines are they worth the points for what they may do in the game.....

Not sure if vectored engines should be used. Fully mech armies will eventually not cut it in the 6th edition, since you need dismounted troops that are able to hold an objective for a full round. Although, fast skimmer will be required to relocate infantry quickly.

Thanks....

Yeah I read through the 'Leaked Rules' and the Codex udates, can't say that I am happy for any of my armies right now, but esp with the Eldar.... and it will probably be late 2012 that the Eldar codex comes out if at all... Which really screws us for a little while.... hmmmm

I will continue to play Eldar because I fell in love with them in Rogue trader and 2nd ed. , I do miss being able to play an all Harlequin army, but those days are gone, GW or the public do not care enough about the Eldar for it to happen. I was happy to see a Corsair Army list in IA book, they look interesting...

Well, not all is bad for Eldar in the leaked ruleset. Wraithguard are fun to play and they are hard to take down for any army. Pathfinders good a boost able to inflict directed hits. Squadrons of Warwalkers are tougher to beat. Falcons and related tanks (Fire Prims, Nightspinners) are more durable. Banshees with their power weapons got a boost too.

If these rules are close to the 6th edition release, there are a few changes that I see happening.

I don't know how effective serpents will be. As I own 9 of them, it would be a big hit for me as I spent a lot of time and money building the models. Currently they provide my units three main advantages.
* They are fast (12-24")
* They are survivable
* They let me score objectives with troops inside.
If these rules are accurate, the serpents lose 2 of out 3 of these things. While they may not become slower, with everything else becoming faster their relative speed is slower.
Unlike rhinos, which are 35 points, serpents are a big investment. This makes them just being nice add-ons for any army.

Under these proposed rules, I see foot'dar armies becoming much more common. As most of the army is fleet, they get a 16" charge -- enough to be in assault on turn two.
20 or so pathfinders being used to hold back objectives and snipe at exposed troops. They are really good at this under these rules and should be used as such.
10-20 warlocks leading the assault. Having a built-in 75% to save makes them very good at bogging down units and cracking tanks. Multiple STR 7 hits on rear armor will open it up.
10-30 harlequins/fire dragons/banshees filling in the rest. Harlequins are hard to shoot, dragons are deadly in shooting, and banshees can tear up a doomed unit. All 3 of these are very viable.

In summary, I hope that there is a change to the eldar codex if these rules are close to 6th edition. I like my army in tanks, as it fits what 40k has become. Losing that and going with a foot'dar approach would not be nearly as much fun IMHO.

* Edited as I had a Rick Perry moment there with my counting.

I second this. Mech Eldar is fun to play. But may lose an edge in the future. However, I'm not sure if the foot'dar armies are viable, since the approaching ''horde'' will stand at least one round in the line of fire. Harlies are hard to target and Warlocks are rather survivable if they can rely on rerollable invulnerable saves. Banshees and Fire Dragons on the other end, are easer to target and wipe out.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Popenfresh wrote:
Am I missing something here that makes locks more worthwhile than in 5th ed?

No, they are demonstrably worse.

Please demonstrate.

Other than witchblades going from S9 to S7, what else is made worse? If that's the only thing, I think I'll take it in exchange for a squad of warlocks being able to fortune themselves.

I agree that footdar may be more played, but I do not think more survivable, we won't be able to stand up to horde armies that well, the pathfinders are good, but there is a lot that ignores cover. Maybe will have to pull my Reapers off the shelves... I do miss playing them... I like wraithguard, backed up by a squad of harlies and they are tough, but so expensive. I see the fusion pistol is getting nerfed a little S7 instead of 8 now, Though with 2d6 suppose you could still pop landraiders...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember that there is a chance that they could peril or that another psycher could nullify it..

Now please correct me if I am wrong, but can 1 psycher attempt to nullify any other psychers powers in a 24" radius, if so that seems pretty ridiculus, but is like the space marine shroud, I think there should be a limmit to how many times you could use this for each psycher. Let me know if I am interpretting this wrong..

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, the new ruleset will not make Eldar more powerful. Its the opposite, as already said above, it may eventually provide a nerf. Now you need units that hold an objective for a whole round. Tactical Marines can fulfill this role perfectly, while Eldar units are rather weak with T3. Wraithguard are too expensive for what they can achieve at the battle field and Pathfinders are a gamble with all those cover-save ignoring weapons out there.

Whining or complaining is not what Eldar players should do when this ruleset will come true. We Eldar players will need to live with it. I always enjoyed playing Eldar when I started them in 3rd ed. Rant over.

I suggest looking into the Corsair list from IA11. It is everything Eldar used to be.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:Remember that there is a chance that they could peril or that another psycher could nullify it..

Perils is a fairly small chance, 1 in 16. Being nullified, however, is a much greater risk.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:Now please correct me if I am wrong, but can 1 psycher attempt to nullify any other psychers powers in a 24" radius, if so that seems pretty ridiculus, but is like the space marine shroud, I think there should be a limmit to how many times you could use this for each psycher. Let me know if I am interpretting this wrong..

p109 of the 'leaked' rulebook.
"If you have several psykers
in range, or one of the psykers has a special rule
or wargear to nullify enemy powers, you can only
start one attempt to stop the power"

In general I think Exarchs got a bit of a boost. As they count as characters, their solid stats and special weapons give them some of the more useful Directed Attack options. For the 4+ save aspects, the 3+ of Exarch armor effectively protects them from Directed Attacks.

Also, I may be messing something up, but I think Wraithlords got more effective in close combat. They come with a Monstrous CCW, and if a heavy weapon is taken, it counts as an additional CCW thanks to relentless, giving 4 swings on the charge, 3 in subsequent rounds. A bit of a consolation for being easier to hit.

labmouse42 wrote:

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:Remember that there is a chance that they could peril or that another psycher could nullify it..

Perils is a fairly small chance, 1 in 16. Being nullified, however, is a much greater risk.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:Now please correct me if I am wrong, but can 1 psycher attempt to nullify any other psychers powers in a 24" radius, if so that seems pretty ridiculus, but is like the space marine shroud, I think there should be a limmit to how many times you could use this for each psycher. Let me know if I am interpretting this wrong..

p109 of the 'leaked' rulebook.
"If you have several psykers
in range, or one of the psykers has a special rule
or wargear to nullify enemy powers, you can only
start one attempt to stop the power"

So with this said, a psychic hood can shut down any psychers power attempts in range on a 4up, that will put down the warlocks fortune power quite readily.

Well, I'd suggest that the Eldar players should wait and see. The new edition might provide some nerfs in the first place. But we'll see a new Eldar codex at the horizon which may compensate these nerfs a bit - at least we can hope.

Eiluj wrote: So with this said, a psychic hood can shut down any psychers power attempts in range on a 4up, that will put down the warlocks fortune power quite readily.

Sorry for nit-picking, but only the SW psychic hood negates on a 4+. C:SM hoods negate much more commonly, as its a LD test plus D6, and warlocks have a LD of 8.

Taking that one unit and saying 'If someone brings a hood its GG for the eldar' is an inaccurate statement, however.
Hoods today can put a significant hampering on Eldrad, yet people still bring him. Provided that the Eldar general has some tactical sense between his ears, he will realize the proper target priority and remove the hood quickly.
Let me give another example. Scarab farms are neutralized by indirect fire from nightspinners or manticores. Does that mean that a necron player won't bring them because they can be counterd? Of course not.

In other words, just because people can take hoods, does not mean that warlocks are not viable. It means that one needs to be aware of the counters to them and neutralize the counters as quickly as possible.

So far, i really like the new rules. I think they're overall fresh and interesting. It seems like there's been put a whole lot of thought into them. It really seems that a great deal of the more "broken" or limiting elements has been accounted for. There is, however, a handful of the new rules i cannot say I'm looking forward to - such as the new "12" fallback = destroyed"-rule or the turn sequences and rules, which allows for you to jump in and out of transports in the very same turn.

I started playing Eldars in 5th. So i cannot argue how they've been modified through out the editions. But fact remains, that they're a much enjoyable army to play, that requires a great attention towards strategic and tactical elements of the game. Like many others, I've based my Mechanized list around Wave Serpents. In the 6th edition, these doesn't come off as a durable choice. The new capture rules really has them (as have been discussed several times throughout this threat).

I do agree, from reading through the posts, that it does seem we're looking at good portion of nerfs towards the Eldar. Personally, I'd prefer to see the Eldars further reflect their racial traits through the actual game play, rather than fluff alone. As per these traits, i hardly get the feeling, that these have been fully met. I wouldn't want the Eldars as a top tier army in any regards, as i do like the challenge and dependency of superior tactic sense to prevail. I would, however, enjoy rules that supported the Eldars as one of the superior armies in the regards of Psychic Powers, rather than but a mediocre army in terms of both active, passive abilities, both offensively and defensively.
- In other words; What the Eldars do, they should do to the point of near-perfection (IMO!).

The way the Eldars are supposed to be, is a race inferior in defensive capabilities, lacking sturdiness and toughness, but compensating through superior defensive/offensive abilities and "hard counter" oriented units through their ranks. As a stand-alone army, they might have fit into those categories just fine. But as we broadly expand our perspective, the drawbacks are starting to shine through.