Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

jy2 wrote:I believe that there is still a place in a SoB army for seraphims. My only concern with them is when fighting fully meched-up armies, as inferno pistols and expensive (assuming they can even take them) and eviscerators and not reliable AT.

Inferno pistols are crazy expensive (30pts for a pair). I think that Seras are best as a full size squad that does anti-infantry through massive wound generation. The other option is a small anti-tank melta squad. I think most people agree that Dominions do the melta thing much better. The only benefit you get from Seras is that you can stack 4 shots into a 5 woman squad. Unfortunately at that point, you're just 30 points shy of a Dominion squad in a MM Immolator.

Against some armies, either one of those builds are going to be out of place. Case in point, your Draigowing. But in an TAC list, I think the flamer Seras are just fantastic. Their average shooting can kill 5 or 6 MEQs and pretty much a whole unit of anything else. Only flamer Dominions can match that and they're a lot easier to neutralize. Against mech, I've never had a problem with them because between Exorcists, scouting Dominions, and rending Heavy Bolters, someone is on foot by the time the Seras are in play.

I think you pegged anti-tank as their biggest weakness. That's true, since it's a highly focused anti-infantry squad. But even with that 10 Krak grenades are pretty handy against most things and if I had given the VSS an Eviscerator, she would get 3 attacks against a dread on the charge which should equate to a penetrating hit. It's not melta reliable, but I imagine anyone would think twice before trying to tie them up with a walker.

As for the 'B' grade, would you have still given them that if the game had ended on turn 5 while they were contesting your objective?

Amerikon wrote:

I think you pegged anti-tank as their biggest weakness. That's true, since it's a highly focused anti-infantry squad. But even with that 10 Krak grenades are pretty handy against most things and if I had given the VSS an Eviscerator, she would get 3 attacks against a dread on the charge which should equate to a penetrating hit. It's not melta reliable, but I imagine anyone would think twice before trying to tie them up with a walker.

As for the 'B' grade, would you have still given them that if the game had ended on turn 5 while they were contesting your objective?

I think this will change come 6th edition with the talk of melta being allowed in hand to hand against vehicles.

Spidey0804 wrote:I think this will change come 6th edition with the talk of melta being allowed in hand to hand against vehicles.

Let's stay away from the 'leaked' changes about 6th edition.

? What its just a thought... who knows whats going to happen in 6th. They might become one of the most broken units in the game come Julyish...

It's always tough to play GK at 1500. I think that it almost always has to be coteaz when you play under 1850. You will be outnumbered in every mission unless you bring some of the cheap threats the army has.

Great Batrep. Thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

Really Great Game Jy2. I hadn't played against Sisters and heard they were really poor with the new codex...seems like they can do OK.

Again, Great report

mray01 wrote:Really Great Game Jy2. I hadn't played against Sisters and heard they were really poor with the new codex...seems like they can do OK.

Again, Great report

I found that is the general feeling of a majority of competitive players until the run into them.

Sisters basically benefit from being highly skilled, and in power armor and they don't have the idiotic load out limitations that tac marines have. I think this plus faith points is why they work. I don't think they are amazing, just that they surprisingly enough accomplish the roll that tac marines should be able to do better.

Are they amazing... IMO no, but because they are an old as hills model range and list, you generally only see older, vet players at the helm as well which makes a BIG difference. The biggest difference really.

Red Corsair wrote: vet players at the helm as well which makes a BIG difference. The biggest difference really.

I agree with you here.

@Thread:

Sorry folks for being MIA in my own thread, but now I'm back.

And thanks to all those who read and posted here. Good to see some new readers as well.

Red Corsair wrote:Sisters basically benefit from being highly skilled, and in power armor and they don't have the idiotic load out limitations that tac marines have. I think this plus faith points is why they work. I don't think they are amazing, just that they surprisingly enough accomplish the roll that tac marines should be able to do better.

Are they amazing... IMO no, but because they are an old as hills model range and list, you generally only see older, vet players at the helm as well which makes a BIG difference. The biggest difference really.

Yeah, it seems like Sisters players (and DE as well before their new codex came out) are more grizzled veterans than young pups. Most sisters players I've encountered really know their army and what they are capable of. That's why they usually put up quite a fight IMO. Anytime you've got an experienced player at the helm, it almost always make for a challenging game.

I liken the battle sisters more to grey hunters (only without the close-combat capability) both in load-out and the way they play, which is up close and personal.

mray01 wrote:Really Great Game Jy2. I hadn't played against Sisters and heard they were really poor with the new codex...seems like they can do OK.

Again, Great report

Don't under-estimate them if you ever play against them. They've got respectable firepower (if somewhat short-ranged) and some nasty assault with their battle conclave (that's deathcult assassins and crusaders) as well as the ever-annoying Celestine. They may look weak, but they can throw a lot of threats at you all at once. That's what I feel makes them competitive with all the other codices.

Spidey0804 wrote:
I found that is the general feeling of a majority of competitive players until the run into them.

I find them ok. The problem with most of the players is that they just aren't familiar enough with them, just as many people scoff at the glass boat raiders and guardmenlike kabalite warriors of 2nd edition DE only to get tabled by them. Know thine opponent, and you should be able to compete against them.

Dok wrote:It's always tough to play GK at 1500. I think that it almost always has to be coteaz when you play under 1850. You will be outnumbered in every mission unless you bring some of the cheap threats the army has.

GK does suffer from "Eliteness" syndrome. Such armies, with the exception of Coteaz-henchmen, tend to do better as you go up in points. Opposite of these are armies like Sisters of Battle, DE and Orks who actually do well at lower-points games because you get more "bang for the buck" (though orks actually scale up quite well at higher points also). It's just something purist GK's have to live with. After all, they've got to pay for those force weapons while sisters, orks and kabalite warriors don't really care much about them.

Amerikon wrote:
As for the 'B' grade, would you have still given them that if the game had ended on turn 5 while they were contesting your objective?

Then I probably would have given them an A- had the game ended then. The fact that I was able to wipe them out knocked them down on my grading scale.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

slice of toast wrote:This is my first time posting in a jy2 battle report, but, as always, great report

I find it very encouraging to all of us who don't want to shell out $100+ for a Uriah-bomb that lists made primarily of the units from the old codex can still win at this level, provided adequate practice and some good luck. I can also see where a list that's a little lighter on troops at 1500 is more competitive than a list with three units of Sisters.

The Uriah-bomb is good, but I don't think it is an auto-include. Some people will opt for just more shooting instead. Amerikon's seraphims are kind of a substitute for the battle conclave. It can do a lot of damage to infantry just as well.

whitespirit wrote:I ROFL to see the troops got the "MVP" Most SoB players usually wont even take 3 until 2000pts. This definetly is a very interesting and might try a few lists with more Troop choices.
My choice for MVP if i were to rate these would be Celestine as I see her force the paladin player to make moves (like blocking up with razorbacks so wouldnt be assaulted, she assaulted so paladins got shifted over, detoured a dread who went to engage and tried to hold her in combat)
Her mobility is top notch, and yeah She killed Draigo!

Actually, I've given units like the battle sisters and even units such as my termagants the MVP before, especially if they can do feats that defy their more traditional role (like my termagants passing 2 morale tests outside of synapse and surviving to claim an objective, thus giving me the win). Often, I take into consideration their role and how well they accomplished it. It's not always whoever kills the most will take the MVP.

In these games, it was close. However, the only knock on Celestine is that she was not performing in game #2 against my purifiers. She only finished off 1 unit of 3 purifiers but otherwise had problems against my warding staves.

jy2 wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
As for the 'B' grade, would you have still given them that if the game had ended on turn 5 while they were contesting your objective?

Then I probably would have given them an A- had the game ended then. The fact that I was able to wipe them out knocked them down on my grading scale.

Dice will be Dice. I wouldn't down grade them just because of that.

No, that is how I felt that they truly performed. If they had survived to contest my objective (thus, giving Sisters the win), then they have performed above and beyond what other units have done. That is the only way to get an 'A(+/-)' in my books. You have to do something "extra" to earn it. Contesting an objective to get the win is that something "extra" (or go on a killing spree, which they didn't).