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I would count Succession War era Battletech as 'post apocalypse' and in doing so becomes my No1 choice.

Does the C&C Tiberian series fits the Post-apoc class?

LordofHats wrote:Logan's run is a dystopic not post-apocalyptic.

Random Factoid of the Day Yall

Dystopia: A society that exists in a totalitarian or socially regressive state under the guise of utopia.

Post-Apocalypse: A society that exists in a world that openly sucks as a result of large scale disaster.

Collins Dictionary wrote:
dystopia
n an imaginary place where everything is as bad as it can be
(C19 (coined by J. S. Mill): from dys- + Utopia)
♦ dystopian adj, n

No totalitarian regimes or social regressiveness mentioned.

I think it would be fairer to say that Post-Apocalypticness is a subset of dystopian setting, so that while all Post-Apocalyptic settings are dystopian, not every dystopian setting is post-apocalyptic (so the point about Logan's Run still stands, and oppressive, totalitarian city-states are not incompatible with a PA world...)

Dystopia, noun.

A society characterized by human misery, as squalor, oppression, disease, and overcrowding.

dictionary.com

Unfortunately dictionaries are utterly worthless for discussing something as complex as literary theme. How to define a 'dystopia' is probably gonna very but the one's we've pulled from dictionaries are so vague and abstract almost any story could fit them (except one that is utopic )

LordofHats wrote:

Dystopia, noun.

A society characterized by human misery, as squalor, oppression, disease, and overcrowding.

dictionary.com

Unfortunately dictionaries are utterly worthless for discussing something as complex as literary theme. How to define a 'dystopia' is probably gonna very but the one's we've pulled from dictionaries are so vague and abstract almost any story could fit them (except one that is utopic )

I disagree.
A good definition is short and to the point, and the one posted above for a dystopia certainly fits the bill. It might not fit into how you view the subjects, but it fits them both. And it certainly doesn't fit almost any story.
Ghost stories aren't about squalor, disease, overcrowding or oppression except incidentally. In a Whodunnit the world isn't as bad as it gets before getting worse. Rise and fall of empires type epics do incorporate a lot of the themes (and then some), but the focus lies elsewhere. Love stories, coming-of-age? Let's not go there.

Also, the definition you've posted doesn't rule out post-apoc:
human misery? Check.
Squalor? Check.
Oppression (from roving warbands, local tyrants, the suddenly hostile environment)? Check.
Disease? Check - often as the cause, even.
Overcrowding? Relative to the suddenly severely reduced resources - Check .


Also, how come no one's yet mentioned I am Legend?
Keith Laumer's short story "The night of the Trolls" is also quite awesome.

Bran Dawri wrote:I disagree.
A good definition is short and to the point, and the one posted above for a dystopia certainly fits the bill. It might not fit into how you view the subjects, but it fits them both. And it certainly doesn't fit almost any story.
Ghost stories aren't about squalor, disease, overcrowding or oppression except incidentally. In a Whodunnit the world isn't as bad as it gets before getting worse. Rise and fall of empires type epics do incorporate a lot of the themes (and then some), but the focus lies elsewhere. Love stories, coming-of-age? Let's not go there.

Also, the definition you've posted doesn't rule out post-apoc:
human misery? Check.
Squalor? Check.
Oppression (from roving warbands, local tyrants, the suddenly hostile environment)? Check.
Disease? Check - often as the cause, even.
Overcrowding? Relative to the suddenly severely reduced resources - Check .

A story about urban poor in <insert major city>

Misery? Check
Squalor? Check
Oppression? China or USA?
Disease? Most definitely
Overcrowding? Yep

That the problem with bulleted lists. They'd not very useful unless someone only wants the most rudimentary understanding of something. Post-apocalyptic stories tend to be about survival with scarce resources in a ruined world. Dystopic stories tend not to be about survival at all. I'd go so far as to say that 'survival' is the most basic element of post-apocalypse. EDIT: Then again this would also depend on if we're going to separate theme from setting or if we consider them integral to one another.

This is something that is open for interpretation, but trying to boil theme down to a sentence or a checklist (as we've seen us both attempt in this thread) is proving inadequate.

Um, my definition didn't include a bulleted list - yours did, and I was trying to make the exact same point you're making now, namely that they're no good (so the bulleted list you've been supporting in the form of a sentence is just as fallacious).

And it's no surprise that a story about ghettoes is pretty darn dystopic - those are pretty darn dystopic places to have to live.

This is what happens when I think something out as I talk about it @_@

no love for KKnD series??

interestingly. KKnD released in the 1997. same year as FALLOUT. saying that one copy each other's storyline is nonsense.

LordofHats wrote:This is what happens when I think something out as I talk about it @_@

Hey, making it up as you go along is a very useful skill .
Keep practicing; you're not doing too badly.

Locclo wrote:Does War of the Worlds count? I mean, I admit it's been a long while since I read the book, but didn't the whole thing get cut off mid-apocalypse?

At least the movie doesnt.