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Goddammit, I had almost finished a long post regarding my solutions for the hired guns dilemma, when my pc crashed, now it's all gone....
In short words:
Hired guns are full of style and the normal rules are disencouraging, give them the chance to gather XP or they are no fun at all. Don't make them part of a gang, it's a HIRED gun, you'd only contact when the gak hits the fan.
Another thing I've invented for our campaign was changing the way hired guns are being payed:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Better be safe than sorry...

Back to where I was.
Instead of giving the hired gun a fixed amount of creds, I made them count as more models when it comes to calculating the income of the gang. A fully delevoped ogryn body guard with high toughness, ripper gun, energy hammer and carapace armor should count for about 10 models. A normal bounty hunter would be much lower. This way you don't know exactly how much he's going to cost you, the costs are moderate (if you get the model count right) and if you're lucky he won't even push you into the next income bracket. At the same time you're technically still paying for the guy, so the storytelling is unharmed. Ok if your luck is bad you might end up paying a lot, but thats the fun part. I'd say it makes people open up to hired guns.

I think I'll use some of that - I like the idea of hired guns gaining XP but I am not sure if this would make them a bit powerful after a while. I suppose you would start a Bounty Hunter off at the same starting XP as a gang leader and he would level up at the same brackets? How about Scum? The problem is that they all have advances to start with, so if they level up at the same rate as a ganger then they will always be a superior choice. Do you let people give hired guns new equipment?

In case anyone is interested, here is the rules I've got so far for hiring Hired Guns. The hiring post is a Badzone Locale (along with other ones from Anthony Case's site, and the Trading Post).

One Ganger or the Gang Leader can visit the Hiring Post
to look for available mercenaries and Hired Guns. If you
visit the Hiring Post, roll a D6 and consult the table below
to see who is looking for work. If your leader is visiting the
Hiring Post then add +2 to the dice roll.
1: No Interest - There is no-one available for work and you
may not hire any Hired Guns in the next battle.
2: The Best of a Bad Bunch - You may hire one or more
Scummers or Ratskin Scouts for the next battle
3-4: Good Reputation - You may hire any type of Hired
Gun that your gang is normally allowed or re-hire any
Hired Gun that you have previously hired. The Hired Gun
will reduce their hire fee by 5 creds if your gang won the
last battle they played
5-6: Familiar Faces - You may hire any type of Hired Gun
that your gang is normally allowed, and you may re-hire
any Hired Gun that you have previously hired for half
(rounding down) of their hire fee

I think it's a relatively elegant solution, you want to keep paying the same guy so that you don't have to send someone (or even your leader) out to go and find him again. I want to discourage people from constantly rolling up new Hired Guns to try and get an optimal one, but XP gain and cheaper fees for repeat customers ought to do that.

Is everyone rolling up new gangs lists at the same time? If so I think it's fairest to have the hired guns available at diff Gang Ratings..sort of like a reputation system, that way players can't get OP hired guns until their gang rating is at a certain level. Otherwise you'll experience the old "redemptionists with an assload of flamers" conundrum.

One problem with Hired Guns though is that they are only really powerful at the start of a campaign when say, a Bounty Hunter is like a second Leader. But later on they become pretty useless except for their extra rules like Ratskin Scouting, or to soak up bullets. I don't think any Hired Guns are OP, even at the start of a campaign. In previous campaigns no-one has wanted to take them as they are too weak for the expense so I'm trying to find ways to make them more viable. I think if they gain XP and you can rehire at a discount that ought to do it.

Well then to save the between-game cost of paying them their wage, have them just join as a regular ganger after so many turns or whenever they become end-game weak- That way they can gain XP just as well as the other gangers from that point on. Give them a buy-out option.

Wow thats a really awesome war band. i dont know the rules of munda very well so i can't chime in on making them more viable but i like the idea of a buy system after x number of battles or reduced cost both sound good to me.

..against green Juves, the hired guns should win every time statistically by-the-stats, but we all know that outfitting juves can get expensive. We'll call it the Republican Strategum, focus your hired guns on the task of killing/capturing juves for the slaver thereby bankrupting your opponent by the 3rd game


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...After all..the best way to beat an opponent is often to take his money away from him

Speaking of hired guns, here's another. This is my scummer, still a WIP and it needs some more work yet but I love this little guy. Nothing says scummer like an unkempt beard, earring, pot belly and a too small leather jacket with the sleeves rolled up.

ok thats fething awsome im not going to lie.... so how'd you make him?

He was originally going to be one of my Goliaths, and like them he is made from some Gorkamorka parts. Those old Orks that look more like humans than Orks now. He's mainly made from the warbuggy gunner (which I am amazed to discover is still the current model).

Holy crap amazing use of an old skool mini I have one in my bits box and found it the other day and thought it would make a cool biker ganger (beer belly main reason ) but you made it spot on

I will have to rethink the use of it know though no way I can compete wit that the raise collar and all great job

Exalted!,

Love this stuff, good conversions might steal an Idea or two.

Cheer's,

Bra'tac

Mr. Beerbelly is great, nice scummer style.

Like all rules in necromunda it really depends on your players. If there is this guy in your group who always takes the maximum amount of juves, doesn't give them weapons to be able to afford even more and in general just behaves like an donkey-cave on a tournament, then you have to fundamentally change some game mechanisms, as they are very open to exploitation. I just made sure I don't have such guys in my gaming group and I constantly promote/reward roleplaying ambitions over efficiency concerns. If it works out, you can focus on making the game deeper and more fun, instead of making it foolproof for gamers who don't get the concept anyway.

Damn how good is this lots of pics.

The battle pics are nice and moody, give a good sense of the underhive. Terrain only needs to look good head to table top anyway, it is there as a backdrop to the models.

The Pitslaves are ace. Best looking slaves I've seen

The scummer is brilliant, hands down brilliant.

Thanks guys, I do love that scummer, he's quite comical but I've had a soft spot for beer bellied miniatures ever since the old Cadian lieutenant. I used another potbellied Ork in my Goliath gang as a ganger that fell into a chemical pit, got disfigured and let himself go. He was useless and perpetually injured but I like everyone to have stories.

The scenery looks good for the most part, some bits are a little rough but some bits were rushed or have been damaged since. Eventually I'd like to redo a lot of it but that's not a priority at the moment.

After a very successful caravan raid I had enough creds to splash out a bit. I considered a second techno, or some sort of special weapon, but in the end I decided I'd rather have two more pitslaves and I've been working on converting two up these last few days.

lone dirty dog wrote:Holy crap amazing use of an old skool mini I have one in my bits box and found it the other day and thought it would make a cool biker ganger (beer belly main reason ) but you made it spot on

I will have to rethink the use of it know though no way I can compete wit that the raise collar and all great job

Lucky! Im a bit angry that this isnt a newer body so that I could easily get some, now i want to make something awsome with it!

Rogue Wolves wrote:

lone dirty dog wrote:Holy crap amazing use of an old skool mini I have one in my bits box and found it the other day and thought it would make a cool biker ganger (beer belly main reason ) but you made it spot on

I will have to rethink the use of it know though no way I can compete wit that the raise collar and all great job

Lucky! Im a bit angry that this isnt a newer body so that I could easily get some, now i want to make something awsome with it!

I will check incase I have a spare one mate, if I do I will send it your way (not saying I have but I might ) if I do do I send it to the weird guy in cave PO BOX ?

Gotta love that scummer , great find and great conversion.

Late response here, haven't been on-line much, the pit gang looks utterly amazing mate! 10/10...I...m-m-must...contain...jealousy! Haha

R

Really Epic stuff!

Bruticus wrote:Speaking of hired guns, here's another. This is my scummer, still a WIP and it needs some more work yet but I love this little guy. Nothing says scummer like an unkempt beard, earring, pot belly and a too small leather jacket with the sleeves rolled up.

LOL... at the too-small jacket. This guy looks great! Reminds me of Kane & Lynch: Dog Days... Guy looks over-the-hill but clearly is still a gunfighter.

-Remi

lone dirty dog wrote:

Rogue Wolves wrote:

lone dirty dog wrote:Holy crap amazing use of an old skool mini I have one in my bits box and found it the other day and thought it would make a cool biker ganger (beer belly main reason ) but you made it spot on

I will have to rethink the use of it know though no way I can compete wit that the raise collar and all great job

Lucky! Im a bit angry that this isnt a newer body so that I could easily get some, now i want to make something awsome with it!

I will check incase I have a spare one mate, if I do I will send it your way (not saying I have but I might ) if I do do I send it to the weird guy in cave PO BOX ?

lol, nah my cave got backed up again as there is no plumbing.. right now im staying with my freind, mr.fluffy, hes a cat actor (/secret catpirate) and he usually plays the evil cats in movies (and man you know i would accept that model with shear happiness )

I'd be surprised if there aren't quite a few of those Ork gunner bodies going spare, I expect most Ork players that want to use a warbuggy would convert a more up-to-date looking gunner.

So we had another game tonight, and once again my opponent picked a shootout (well, it was a mission called Broken Deal which basically starts like a shootout then becomes a gang fight with one loot counter - cool scenario). Shootouts are pretty painful when half your gang has no guns, the other half pack stub guns and your opponent has a meltagun, rippergun and heavy flamer. Once again the Imperial Guard leader got a kill with his meltagun (2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, D6 high impact wounds = lots of messy deaths). I'm beginning to hate this guy (who I have dubbed Mr. Meltavator). Amazingly, when the smoke cleared I had 2 out of 5 people people merely pinned, one of them being Agron (the bioshock/mining servitor) who is rapidly becoming a bit of a star. First he charged and destroyed Mr Meltavator before getting soaking up a whole round of fire, the ripper gun at point blank range just bouncing off him. Then the Ogryn charged, but failed to wound. Then Agron fought back, scoring one hit with his drill, rolling a 6 to wound = D6 wounds... six wounds and the Ogryn was gone! And in fact the rock drill in the face proved fatal: Agron chalks up his first kill, and to top it off he then runs off with the loot. I'm very proud of him.



Here's a sneak peak at LUG-0 though I can't get a good shot of him, I think the pose looks better in person. I realised a lot of my gang were quite stationary, hence the running shoulder barge:



LUG-0 (often simply called Lugo) was once a combat servitor but was decommissioned and sent back to Necromunda where he was destined for the mines or the arena. When Sparktacus' rebellion escaped into the Underhive one of the first things Sparkatcus did was send Agron to find more fighters for the cause. Agron immediately freed a spaceship full of servitors including Lugo, causing some friction among the other slaves who were uneasy with the amount of servitors now present in the rebellion - servitors that would communicate in their own code language and were seemingly loyal to Agron rather than Sparktacus. However, so far Agron's loyalty has been unquestionable and the extra brute strength that servitors can bring to bear is undeniably useful. Lugo is not trained as an arena fighter, but as a combat servitor he is easily reprogrammed and now fights with a traditional combination of chainsaw and buzzsaw.

wow im liking this Lugo! for the longest time i've been trying to get my group to play Necromunda, once they agreed i decided to try to push for =][=munda... now one is suggesting infinity.... i just want some kind of munda to play!

btw when in shoot outs with no guns, arrogantly say, yea well at least my models arnt stock .. that is unless they convert as much as you.

I've found that most games just involve crossing my fingers and hoping that my opponent misses/doesn't wound for the first few turns, it's really nerve wracking. I had 4 models down or out before anyone from my team had a chance to really do anything... but then someone gets into charge range and the game changes drastically.

I've never tried Infinity but although the models are cool I think you get more choice with Necromunda and you get more flavour and fluff too because 40k is immense. The game is really solid but you do need a lot of scenery. I think scenery is a major factor - if you have the time and resources to make a lot of it, then go for Necromunda for sure. If not, maybe something else. And if you can't make or store any scenery whatsoever then play Bloodbowl.

lol blood bowl is fun, but not for me.. necromunda is ideal because i love the converting envolved, and i love making scenery too.. and i understand how you feel about playing, out gw used to have Mordheim going on, well lets just say that my warband wasnt the worst, i was Reikalnd and i had maximum roster (i found an entire dead warband and sold off all their stuff) all i did was buy off (or buy as slaves as they told me) some of the warbands, and kept a constent income to them, while i sat back with my handguns raining down apon the enemy heros as i laughed to myself... the store managers dwarves i couldnt buy out, and could bairly kill enough for him to retreat.. those things are TOUGH!

Both the terrain and the gangs looks awsome!!!

Want a better pic of Lug-o. What parts did you use for the body?

That scummer is absolutely brilliant - probably my favourite miniature you've posted so far. The angle of the neck, the way he's holding the pistols, the collar and the jacket and the hair blowing the in the wind - everything about him screams attitude with a hint of Wild West gunfighter. He's so inspiring! Like the fluff for the new servitor too, and he looks like he could really put out some hurt with that pose.

As for crossing your fingers for Necromunda - I think praying to the dice gods is a big part of it! One of my favourite aspects of necro is that it's brutally random. There is no feeling safe, no matter how badass your gang becomes - the toughest ganger can be knocked from a building by a lucky shot with a stub gun, or nommed by a shadowy creature in a Scavenger game. It's painful, it's frustrating, but it's how the game is played! You play the odds, and sometimes you lose

Being a character development freak I actually prefer my fight for survival in the darkness of the underhive to be nice, warm and fluffy-cozy. Life's still a bitch, but taking some frustration out, seemed reasonable to our group.