Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Redbeard wrote:

In years past, if you didn't pick your field carefully, you could wind up with an expensive piece of paper too.

No, its different now. Fields are no longer general things, and the ones that are generalized have low employment rates unless you go to a really good school. This is actually a big problem at the undergraduate level where you'll see majors subdivided repeatedly, and course structures designed to force that; primarily so schools can make more money and professors don't have to teach things they aren't interested in.

 dogma wrote:

 sourclams wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm in agriculture and our industry is generally 20 years behind the times, but whenever the Man said jump and I did, I've made out a lot better for it.

Did they fund your relocation?

Yes. They'll even provide 2 mos temporary housing for more established individuals, i.e. families. On average someone in HR told me it costs upwards of $20k to relocate a family when you consider all expenses, and that's the reason companies generally require a 1+ year commitment.

Paid/reimbursed relocation has by far been the norm in my experience, the exception being entry-level positions in big metro areas like Chicago/NY where there seems to be 0 competition for entry position applicants.

If you won't consider the military, get a trade.
Seriously.
Car/truck mechanic, plumber, carpenter, electrician, welder, anything like that.
Also, be prepared to move to where the work is.

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Redbeard you can also make your hobbies work towards your trade. Half the reason I got back into wargaming is to train up my manual dexterity and fine detail work as I prepare myself for gunsmithing trade school next year. Yes the exact effort doesn't translate over but the eye for detail and getting my fat fingers used to working on 28mm models will make fine detail work on much larger items like firearms cake.

Now you have my interest. there's a business stable through time.

Are you actually smithing or just assembling components? There are very few really good smiths able to work over or even create new works now days. Most are just glorified plug and play types.

I'm going through formal education which teaches design and theory, as well as apprenticing in a custom shop under a master smith. For the majority it is a lot simpler to "plug and play" and still produce excellent custom results that will satisfy users I fully intend to be able to design and build my own work. Not to say that the former isn't useful, for example doing a barrel job for a customer. I can take seven hours to turn the barrel or I can order in the turned barrel instead of a barrel blank. The customer gets his or her rifle back that much faster and I'm that much more efficient and quick onto the next project. Efficiency is the death of a lot of trade skills it seems.

 Tigerone wrote:
I don't think you have been screwed over but you’re the biggest generation of losers we have ever seen.

I'd love to see you explain that one, but I suspect that you're never going to post in this thread again since it would take effort to explain such a nuanced and egalitarian position. Most of your posts are one liners that are pretty explicitly against forum rules, I'm surprised you're still here at all.

Hah, you posted all of five times since the Occupy protests were going on a year ago and you trudged through those discussions like a bearded hipster punched your teeth out and your rage could only be vented online.

 Horst wrote:
Everyone always says gak like "Oh no, the economy is bad, I'll never get a job, boo hoo hoo."

BS. The job market isn't bad in every field. A computer science degree from a good college basically guarantees you a job, as long as you don't try to pigeon hole yourself into a field like video games. I only have a partial degree at the moment, but I still make enough at my current job to pay off my loans, support myself, and save a couple hundred a month on top of that. When I finally finish my degree, my salary will jump at least another 10k.

100k in debt might seem like a lot of money for a degree. And you know what, it is. However, consider that it will cost you around $12,000 a year for like 10-15 years to pay it off. You can live pretty comfortably on like $30,000 a year, depending on where you live (especially if you have a roommate). Pretty much ANY job requiring a college degree pays AT LEAST $42,000 a year, many of them much higher.

You shouldn't worry about paying back your loans, unless you make a seriously stupid college degree choice like pretty much any degree in liberal arts.

To the first part in bold, a degree in computer science in my experience doesn't really guarantee anything(at least in my field and region). Complaints I've heard repeatedly is that generally there's a distinct separation between what you learn in academia and what you need to know to do well in real-life. Speaking as someone who works as a software developer and has interviewed people, the degree really isn't as relevant as one might assume. What largely matters is experience and to some extent personality(your ability to work with a team, apparent willingness to learn, etc.).

To the second point, there are plenty of entry-level jobs that 'require' a degree and don't pay a whole lot. A degree alone certainly doesn't guarantee a $42k salary.

Now all that said, software development(at least web development) seems to be a great field to get into nowadays, if you have interest in that kind of work. Learning material, such as it is, is widely and [largely] freely available and you can literally start doing it(to learn and/or for personal enjoyment) right now.

I would also like to back up having chutzpah, being able to write a decent cover letter and having work experience as being valuable even over a degree. For example I was in the top running over the summer for a position flying satellites. (yes in outer space) the only reason I ended up NOT in a position working in the space industry flying a couple billion dollars worth of equipment is another SatComm in the local area ended up having to de-staff, so they were able to staff their openings with pre-trained and pre-qualified flight officers.

Personally I don't blame them for that at all, I'd do the same thing if I could get experienced crew, but the point remains that I was a shoo in till that happened. I don't have a degree, or anything else. Opportunity never knocks on your door, you have to knock on Opportunity's door and maybe try a few windows.

Just straight upThug mug Oppurtunity when you get the chance. I literally loaded my resume from all the schools I volunteered to go related to my field and some that wasn't really in my lane to learn. You have to outright kick your buddy in the nuts to get ahead.

Maybe if y'all didn't wear such tight pants, the future would seem brighter.

... Mate, I'm 29, married, one child, and I still don't know what to do with my life

I've been in the military, worked retail, worked in a warehouse, welding, got a trade (CnC operator and programmer, aswell as the manual machines) I got a degree in pedagogics and didactics (did 3.5 out of 4.5 years at uni to becone a teacher, but due to school reforms, my first subject I became a teacher in was dropped, and the orher 5 got seriously boinked too), last 3 years I've worked at rehab centers and homeless shelters, working with addicts, homeless and the psycho's.

My suggestion would be to get a trade. Women love a dude with a steady incone, doesn't matter if he's a plumber... My wifes brother became a locksmith, wich seems like a sift job for the cash he's earning. As others have said, welders get paid very well, but it's hard work. A trade is a good starting point, and nobody says you have to, say, work construction for the rest of your life. Things usually don't work out the way you expect it.

I'm hoping to work the nightshift at a shelter come january, but who knows, I might be back working retail/warehouse/security/driving out packages or whatever. Heck, I might go back to working with "troublesome youths" or help out as a substitute teacher. I've even been invited to hold lectures about homelesness and drug abuse by friends whom I met at uni, for their classes.

Main thing is: get money to pay uour bills, and not be totally miserable and burnes out when you get home.

At my fortune 50 company, you can't even get in the door as a Call Center Rep/Backroom Data Entry person without a College Degree. These jobs are hourly and pay 20K to 24K starting. Do you really need a college degree to do any of this stuff? Not at all. Does that matter? Not at all.

Of course, that asumes that we are even hiring for those types of positions. Typically, we hire overseas vendors to do the job. As one of my Executive VP's told me as we shipped a bunch of jobs to Uruguay or something, "We just can't find people with the proper skills around here." Of course, considering all the major Universities in the area, that was a load of gak, what he really meant to say is "We can't find people who will work for a dollar a day around here."

I would not want to be a college graduate these days. The only advise I have for the OP, is start learning how to be an amazing sales person. That is the most valuable skill you can have right now.

There are actually a fair number of opportunites out there. The trick is, they aren't in office jobs anymore. The jobs that are paying well now seem to focus much more on physical work, instead of pushing paper.

Mining engineers, for example. Mining companies are desparate for more of them, and the lack is holding up several big projects. There was an article on Yahoo about how new graduates of the South Dakota School of Mines were outearning graduates fresh out of Harvard!

Trade schools are also having good success placing graduates in decent paying jobs. Things like automotive mechanics, welders, and metalworkers are very in demand (and if you go the automotive route, you'll save a TON of cash maintaining your own car).

Roughnecks - that is, people working on oil drilling rigs - get paid pretty well, and if you stick it out the pay can easily reach six digits - with the first number not being a 1...

College isn't the only route to success. It may not even be the best route anymore. So look at all the alternatives, and find the one that suits you best.

 Vulcan wrote:
College isn't the only route to success. It may not even be the best route anymore. So look at all the alternatives, and find the one that suits you best.

This is very true.

Of course, all of the opportunies you cite require either training or relocation.

It's a pretty recent concept in the the US that a person should expect to find economic and social success in the area of his birth. "Go west, young man" and all of that.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Redbeard you can also make your hobbies work towards your trade. Half the reason I got back into wargaming is to train up my manual dexterity and fine detail work as I prepare myself for gunsmithing trade school next year. Yes the exact effort doesn't translate over but the eye for detail and getting my fat fingers used to working on 28mm models will make fine detail work on much larger items like firearms cake.

Now you have my interest. there's a business stable through time.

Are you actually smithing or just assembling components? There are very few really good smiths able to work over or even create new works now days. Most are just glorified plug and play types.

I'm going through formal education which teaches design and theory, as well as apprenticing in a custom shop under a master smith. For the majority it is a lot simpler to "plug and play" and still produce excellent custom results that will satisfy users I fully intend to be able to design and build my own work. Not to say that the former isn't useful, for example doing a barrel job for a customer. I can take seven hours to turn the barrel or I can order in the turned barrel instead of a barrel blank. The customer gets his or her rifle back that much faster and I'm that much more efficient and quick onto the next project. Efficiency is the death of a lot of trade skills it seems.

well if you can build to order or take existing parts (or parts you order) and tweak them, then your glory will be great. your name will be a whispered legend among the believers verily thou shalt be held high!

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Redbeard you can also make your hobbies work towards your trade. Half the reason I got back into wargaming is to train up my manual dexterity and fine detail work as I prepare myself for gunsmithing trade school next year. Yes the exact effort doesn't translate over but the eye for detail and getting my fat fingers used to working on 28mm models will make fine detail work on much larger items like firearms cake.

Now you have my interest. there's a business stable through time.

Are you actually smithing or just assembling components? There are very few really good smiths able to work over or even create new works now days. Most are just glorified plug and play types.

I'm going through formal education which teaches design and theory, as well as apprenticing in a custom shop under a master smith. For the majority it is a lot simpler to "plug and play" and still produce excellent custom results that will satisfy users I fully intend to be able to design and build my own work. Not to say that the former isn't useful, for example doing a barrel job for a customer. I can take seven hours to turn the barrel or I can order in the turned barrel instead of a barrel blank. The customer gets his or her rifle back that much faster and I'm that much more efficient and quick onto the next project. Efficiency is the death of a lot of trade skills it seems.

well if you can build to order or take existing parts (or parts you order) and tweak them, then your glory will be great. your name will be a whispered legend among the believers verily thou shalt be held high!

This is indeed my goal oh Lord of the Weanie dogs. I actually knew I wanted to be able to fabricate when I lost the rear sights on my Chief's Special. I don't know why in the nine hells those aren't locked in more permanently to start with but it was a version of the pistol that was in new production when you were knee high to a grasshopper Frazz, so of course replacement parts didn't exist any where. Out of the three gunsmiths in my home town with a good reputation and who advertise for repairs (we have a couple custom shops for specific markets, including a .22 specialist who makes the target guns for the Olympic Shooting team) ONE GUY could machine me up some replacement sights.

Were'e fine dude.

Edited because my girlfriend told me I need to be nice

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Were'e fine dude.

Tell that to current college grads, for whom the unemployment rate is dramatically above average, and who are losing the ability to enter the industries that were the basis of their education thanks to years of unemployment and shallow demand.

 Brometheus wrote:
Edited because my girlfriend told me I need to be nice

Are you going to let your girlfriend tell you what to do?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Edited because my girlfriend told me I need to be nice

Are you going to let your girlfriend tell you what to do?

Does she have boobs? Boobs begets obeisance.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Edited because my girlfriend told me I need to be nice

Are you going to let your girlfriend tell you what to do?

Are you going to let "She Who Must Be Obeyed" command you?!??!

And yah... boobehs have the advantage...

hey got you ther Frazz...though a GF and a wife are two different authority figures.

 Jihadin wrote:
hey got you ther Frazz...though a GF and a wife are two different authority figures.

1. Hey it was his funeral, I'm just stirring up trouble. The wieners need some new bones to chew on, and recent corpses make the best chewy snacks.
2. See there's the difference. GF = BB. Wife = shotgun. Who has more power. YOU decide.