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Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
So, I'm a highschool senior this year, and I've been weighing my options for the future, and getting more and more depressed. I can really only
5 options for myself.

1: I can go to community college to get my electives done and then finish my degree at a 4-year university, and risk having the uni. not accepting my com. college credits.

If you do it right, this isn't an issue. It's the route my wife took just a few years ago when she went back to school.

What you do is first, pick a local college with a program that you want to get into. Then, talk to a councillor at that school and find out what community college they take transfers from. Most community colleges work with local schools, especially the state schools, to make sure their programs are compatible. Know what you need before you sign up for anything, and make sure to listen to the councillor at your four year school instead of the one at the community school.

When I think about it, these are really the only options facing most people my age and from my background. Jobs paying more than minimum wage require a Bachelors degree,

Or, pursue vocational school. Most trade unions have apprenticeship programs. Electricians, plumbers, mechanics and the like make a decent living. Or even just find someone who is doing private contracting work and talk to them about apprenticing. When I had my kitchen done, the contractor I worked with had an apprentice with him. The apprentice was learning how to do the various tasks involved, and being a gopher, while the older guy scheduled the jobs, and did the complex stuff.

Learning a trade may not get you a doctor's salary, but if you think about it, pipes are still going to clog during a recession.

I don't think you have been screwed over but you’re the biggest generation of losers we have ever seen.

I red that in Al Bundy's voice and laughed....

 Tigerone wrote:
I don't think you have been screwed over but you’re the biggest generation of losers we have ever seen.

Can you explicate?

I'm a college-educated Millennial (28 yrs old) and basically a shining success story by the standards of Ronald Reagan and Traditional American Values everywhere.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
1: I can go to community college to get my electives done and then finish my degree at a 4-year university, and risk having the uni. not accepting my com. college credits.

2: I could go to community college and attempt to get a job while I'm at it. Maybe by working really hard, I can start climbing the ladder and getting promotions; I do know some people who got menial jobs at UPS/McDonald's/Target and have since become regional managers. However, there are just too many variables for this option to be really viable.

3: I can go to a university for the full 4 years and end up with crap tons of debt in a stagnant/shrinking economy.

4: I could join the military, but I'm a pacifist and don't approve of most of the military actions that the US has engaged in in the past 50-odd years.

5: Suicide.

screwed.


_Tim?

My goodness. What ever happened to just getting a job that pays livable wages and being happy? I'm sure there are plenty of people who went to college and still can't get a job. I've been working since I was 15, granted I'm only 21 now but I've still never been out of a job.

Not everyone is going to die with 100k in the bank to leave their kids. Not everyone is a special flower that deserves to be rich. If you work hard and find your own niche, you'll get there, but if you just want it to happen it wont. Face it, you and I will probably die poor just like the rest of the majority of people.

Okay, I'll bite, let's go down the checklist:

1. What are your skills?

2. Why isn't there market demand for them?

3. Have you tried finding a new market? i.e. moving to Texas

 Tigerone wrote:
I don't think you have been screwed over but you’re the biggest generation of losers we have ever seen.

Gee thanks. And what have you ever done for the world?

Gee thanks. And what have you ever done for the world?

That question goes both ways

Ease up, people. Humor doesn't always get across and personal attacks are not allowed.

To be fair, young kids these days deserve to be pissed.

The 60s generation grew up and elected Reagan. Which then lead to neoliberalization and Clinton. Which lead to Gen X'ers and them having their head up their own ass. Which lead to Bush. Like, yeah, sure the new generation might be obnoxious and can't stand still without sending a text message for one fething second but it isn't like the preceding generations did anything but feth everything up.

 Jihadin wrote:

Gee thanks. And what have you ever done for the world?

That question goes both ways

True But I implied that I've not been able to, by being a member of said generation. Good point though, I'm a lazy git.

I'm 42 here. There's a big difference in generation thats been at this and those are now coming into it. IMO there's no motivation or inner drive to SOME of the younger generation entering. Its like their expecting most of their needs to met without the effort. I said SOME before anyone jumps the gun and think I said ALL

Surely, you can also see that there is no inner drive or motivation in SOME members of every generation. I'm not sure how you could say that one generation was more or less hardworking than another. It's kind of a useless, hateful rhetoric.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course, by that same token, it is a bit silly for a given generation to go on and on about how they've been screwed over by their forebears as if mom and dad had it all handed to them.

 Jihadin wrote:
I'm 42 here. There's a big difference in generation thats been at this and those are now coming into it. IMO there's no motivation or inner drive to SOME of the younger generation entering. Its like their expecting most of their needs to met without the effort. I said SOME before anyone jumps the gun and think I said ALL

The flip side is that for the latter half of the 20th century, young adults that did try to gain education, training, or work experience were rewarded with good paying jobs and relatively low debt. Today, unless you pick your field very carefully, you can wind up with a very expensive peice of paper.

Come now, P. You and I are lawyers of the same generation. Did we pick this course of action with considerable care? I can of course only speak for myself, saying no. Has it paid off nonetheless? Absolutely.

Youngsters do have to learn what they want to do in life, but not just to end it all thinking they've seen the best of it already. Suicide is the worst option out of all of those posted.

Don't buy into popular pessimism. If you don't like your situation, don't just complain about it... change it! All of us (I'm 42 also with a great job and a wonderful family) went through our stages of growth and learned from our mistakes and successes. That's life. It's not fair but you get what you put into it. Just don't be one of those people who refuse to learn from their errors and keep doing the same thing over and over then expecting a different result. And then makes it worse by complaining incessantly about it.

Good luck to you in your decision. We need fresh perspectives to keep us old farts from getting too cranky...

 Manchu wrote:
Come now, P. You and I are lawyers of the same generation. Did we pick this course of action with considerable care? I can of course only speak for myself, saying no. Has it paid off nonetheless? Absolutely.

Well, mine almost didn't. I spent a full year unemployed after graduating law school 2009.

But that's the other factor: looking at statistics is great if you're an economist, but not if you're a person. Saying to myself "half of law grads in 2009 don't have full time legal jobs" didn't help me get my job. I'm not sure what did (aside from luck and a good interview), but while I think the OP needs to focus on how not to be a statistic, there's something to be said for degree of difficulty.

Three of us worked the same job, at a roughly comparable level of expertise. I graduated in 2009, and spent a year unemployed. Another guy graduated in 2005 and spent a month pounding pavement before he found his first job, which he left in only a few months. The third graduated in 2002 and had a couple job offers before graduation.

Yeah, it worked out for all of us, but it got progressively harder. A good buddy of mine graduated at the top of his class (admittedly Tier III) with good experiece, law review, etc. He got exactly one offer at a small firm, that within six months wanted to cut his salary. He's on his own now.

 Polonius wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Come now, P. You and I are lawyers of the same generation. Did we pick this course of action with considerable care? I can of course only speak for myself, saying no. Has it paid off nonetheless? Absolutely.

Well, mine almost didn't. I spent a full year unemployed after graduating law school 2009.

Well, that's another thing we have in common actually and it doesn't really mean that the pay off "almost didn't" happen. It just meant that in the fallout of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression even kids with JDs who passed the bar had to wait a year. Not too shabby.

 kronk wrote:

 dogma wrote:
Despite what is often claimed, where you BA/BS came from does matter.

100% this. When interviewing engineering candidates, I don't give a crap where the engineering degree is from, just that they have one.

I said does, not doesn't.

Though my comments are more relevant to social sciences than hard sciences. A political science major from a directional will have a much harder time finding work than a political science major from an Ivy.

 Polonius wrote:
The flip side is that for the latter half of the 20th century, young adults that did try to gain education, training, or work experience were rewarded with good paying jobs and relatively low debt. Today, unless you pick your field very carefully, you can wind up with a very expensive peice of paper.

I honestly wonder how much of that is myth/perception/romanticism versus economic reality (both that the long-ago times were "better" and the today-times are "worse").

I understand what the shift in automation and the decline in manufacturing did to unskilled labor prospects within the US. And I also understand the current glut in "soft" majors looking for jobs.

But I also feel that my generation has a really different prioritization from what used to be "normal". A lot of young people I know have no desire to be geographically mobile, other than internationally (i.e. want to work within 2 hours' drive of their families/where they grew up, or want their company to send them overseas to live in Brazil or Tokyo or some other sexy location).

If that's your over-arching priority, then unless you live in Texas or Nebraska all you can really do is settle for the job that whoever's hiring within 100 mile radius will offer. I myself have moved across the country, twice, for my company in the last 6 years. I'm also doing "bestest" out of my peers. Maybe it's because I'm in agriculture and our industry is generally 20 years behind the times, but whenever the Man said jump and I did, I've made out a lot better for it.

 Manchu wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Come now, P. You and I are lawyers of the same generation. Did we pick this course of action with considerable care? I can of course only speak for myself, saying no. Has it paid off nonetheless? Absolutely.

Well, mine almost didn't. I spent a full year unemployed after graduating law school 2009.

Well, that's another thing we have in common actually and it doesn't really mean that the pay off "almost didn't" happen. It just meant that in the fallout of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression even kids with JDs who passed the bar had to wait a year. Not too shabby.

No, I'm not complaining. I'm also not nearly the norm in many ways.

I'm not agreeing fully with the OP, I'm simply pointing out to many people in this thread that things are more difficult now than they were previously, at least career path wise.

Young adults don't have a tremenous underemployment rate because we all love part time work.

 sourclams wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm in agriculture and our industry is generally 20 years behind the times, but whenever the Man said jump and I did, I've made out a lot better for it.

Did they fund your relocation?

I'm getting to the party late here, but I just want to chime in saying that I never finished my BS (semi pun intended) degree, and I make more than my friends, one of whom even has a Masters in CS. It's not always the piece of paper that matters; it's also who you know, and how good you are.

I got canned by the owner of a mom & pop computer business about 2 months before it went out of business because he didn't want to pay me anymore. After about a month of scrambling, I got my foot in with the company I'm with because one of the guys I worked with at the job I got fired at months previous left it to come here. He put the good word in for me, I smoked the interview, and I've been watching my pay grade increase since. In 5 years, I've more than doubled my income.

I have to agree Sourclams. I'm in the same boat but I've seen how few of my friends I grew up with have any intention of moving around. And the two of us who have are the ones that are doing well.

And for me Dogma my company paid to move me out to this location when they hired me. I just had to guarentee 2 years employment with them.

Fair enough. I've not seen many employers that would pay for relocation, but that may just be an industry thing. I also don't know many people that wouldn't want to relocate, but that's probably just my odd set of experiences.

 dogma wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 dogma wrote:
Despite what is often claimed, where you BA/BS came from does matter.

100% this. When interviewing engineering candidates, I don't give a crap where the engineering degree is from, just that they have one.

I said does, not doesn't.

Though my comments are more relevant to social sciences than hard sciences. A political science major from a directional will have a much harder time finding work than a political science major from an Ivy.

Ha! Complete reading fail on my part, but then, I did graduate from the same University that Terry Bradshaw attended....

I'll grant you political sciences and Law. I wasn't thinking of those when I posted, and you're probably right about those. As for Engineering and similar positions, I haven't found that it matters where you went to school, so long as it was accredited.

Polonius wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I'm 42 here. There's a big difference in generation thats been at this and those are now coming into it. IMO there's no motivation or inner drive to SOME of the younger generation entering. Its like their expecting most of their needs to met without the effort. I said SOME before anyone jumps the gun and think I said ALL

The flip side is that for the latter half of the 20th century, young adults that did try to gain education, training, or work experience were rewarded with good paying jobs and relatively low debt. Today, unless you pick your field very carefully, you can wind up with a very expensive peice of paper.

In years past, if you didn't pick your field carefully, you could wind up with an expensive piece of paper too. Getting a degree in art history has never been a good choice, for example. College should never be something you enter into without a good deal of thought, and unfortunately, too many young people today are doing just that. College has become too much of an automatic for kids of middle class suburbanites, in spite of the fact that most of them shouldn't be going to college. To hear many talk, where they want to go is more important than where they can afford to go or what they plan to do after the fact.

Having just been through the process with my wife, who didn't have the opportunity when she graduated high school, I can say that there are plenty of majors that have all their graduates snapped up, and plenty of schools that are affordable without exorbitant loans. Hint: Look at applied Science degrees (Engineering, Nursing/Healthcare) at state schools. My wife did her gen eds at a community college, had them all transfer to UIC, graduated on time, and was hired, along with every one of her classmates, within three months of graduation.

I'd also consider making studying your primary activity when you're in school. Being able to put a GPA over 3.5, or "Graduated with High Honors" on a resume is a good way to be the one that gets noticed in a tight job market. I wasn't wargaming when I was in college, and my wife dropped out of her social circle for three years while she was in school.

It's an investment in your future - don't just throw the money away in hopes of a piece of paper, work it. Know what you're getting into, know what you're getting out of it, and put in the effort while you're there to make sure that it has value.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
1: I can go to community college to get my electives done and then finish my degree at a 4-year university, and risk having the uni. not accepting my com. college credits.

This happened to me, in 1990. I went to an art trade school, transferred to a real art university and had to start out at the bottom, after 1 year I got sick of it and decided I'd make more money delivering pizza. When I realized how stupid that was, I decided to teach myself web design and here I am now with a real career, but no degree. Maybe it's just this field, but for me a degree is just a piece of paper with your name scribbled on it. Unless you're gonna be a doctor or a lawyer or a rocket scientist, college is overrated. but then don't forget, there is a time and a place for everything, and that's college.. so everyone should try it at least once. If community college is all you can afford, then go. After that's done you can decide if it's worth it to further your education. You'll learn a lot more about real life as soon as you get out of high school.

Redbeard you can also make your hobbies work towards your trade. Half the reason I got back into wargaming is to train up my manual dexterity and fine detail work as I prepare myself for gunsmithing trade school next year. Yes the exact effort doesn't translate over but the eye for detail and getting my fat fingers used to working on 28mm models will make fine detail work on much larger items like firearms cake.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Redbeard you can also make your hobbies work towards your trade. Half the reason I got back into wargaming is to train up my manual dexterity and fine detail work as I prepare myself for gunsmithing trade school next year. Yes the exact effort doesn't translate over but the eye for detail and getting my fat fingers used to working on 28mm models will make fine detail work on much larger items like firearms cake.

Now you have my interest. there's a business stable through time.

Are you actually smithing or just assembling components? There are very few really good smiths able to work over or even create new works now days. Most are just glorified plug and play types.