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d-usa wrote: I was under the impression that the administration has been saying that the attack was not because of the movie pretty early on.
The only connection they said it had to the movie protest was that they used it as a diversion, with more and more evidence shoving that there was no protest.
Nah, they kept up the, "It was a protest gone bad!" line for at least five days after they had strong evidence it was terrorist activity, and that there was no protest.
d-usa wrote: I was under the impression that the administration has been saying that the attack was not because of the movie pretty early on.
You mentioned that before, but I couldn't find any evidence of that. I think with what happened in Egypt, the DoS kinda wrap them together.
The only connection they said it had to the movie protest was that they used it as a diversion, with more and more evidence shoving that there was no protest.
No protest, no diversion. Simply a sophisticated attack.
Mark Steyn writes:
The State Department has now conceded that there was no movie protest at all. and that it was, in fact, one of the most sophisticated military attacks ever launched at a diplomatic facilityBoth these very obvious points were surely known to Washington by 6 a.m. Eastern on Wednesday September 12, by which time the surviving consulate staff had been evacuated to Tripoli. Yet Ambassador Rice, President Obama, et al., were still blaming the video days later. Obama and Secretary Clinton always refer to Ambassador Stevens as “Chris” — Chris this, Chris that — as if he were a treasured friend or intimate. Yet they and the sad hollow men around them dishonor their “friend” in death.
Quite aside from the wrongness of lying, generally and specifically, in this case, and quite aside from the motivation to lie — I'm going to presume, without more, it was campaign politics — why did Obama think he could get away with this lie long enough, and why was he not daunted by the risk entailed in going on and on, doubling down on the lie, and even lying in a U.N. speech? How did he have the nerve to co-opt our U.N. ambassador, Susan Rice, and subvert her credibility and honor? How did he get this millstone around the neck of Hillary Clinton, who has such a strong interest in her independent career and who knows a thing or two about the devastation of getting caught lying? (And this lie can't be waved away as as lie "about sex." It's a lie at the very heart of our trust in the President.)
Now, I have a few more questions, focusing on the choice to construct the lie out of that "Innocence of Muslims" video. Here's a montage of statements that were made about the video:
OBAMA: I don't care how offensive this video was, it was terribly offensive and we should shun it.
HILLARY: This video is disgusting and reprehensible. It appears to have a deeply cynical purpose, to denigrate a great religion and to provoke rage.
CARNEY: Let's be clear. These protests were in reaction to a video that had spread to the region.
OBAMA: You had a video that was released by somebody who lives here, sort of a shadowy character, an extremely offensive video.
CARNEY: The unrest we've seen has been in reaction to a video.
OBAMA: A crude and disgusting video sparked outrage throughout the Muslim world.
RICE: It was a spontaneous, not a premeditated response, a direct result of a heinous and offensive video.
OBAMA: I know there are some who ask, "Why don't we just ban such a video?" The answer is enshrined in our laws. Our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech.
Was this just the nearest lame excuse, like the dog ate my homework? The President must have known that the truth about the attack on the embassy would eventually emerge. He couldn't have assumed that those called to testify in congressional hearings would commit perjury. Even if everyone would be willing to commit perjury, how could they think they could credibly pull off lies about protests — vivid public events — that never took place? Maybe Obama's only concern was that the truth not emerge before the election, but given the risk that it would, why wasn't he afraid of how bizarre and outrageous the video story was?
The video story, moreover, put Obama in a position where he had to present caring for the feelings of violent foreigners as something that challenges our commitment to free speech, as if it were a difficult matter to brood over. He made it sound as though he would ban the video — or take the proposal to ban it seriously — if only the Constitution didn't stand in his way. Was he interested in making a show of respect for constitutional law? It didn't come off as too respectful, especially when they arrested the filmmaker (who was, conveniently, on parole and thus arrestable). This was the worst sort of scapegoating. Obama called this man — this erstwhile nonentity — "a shadowy character."
And this inane and unnecessary display of concern for the feelings of Muslims depended on thinking about Muslims as a bunch of idiots and criminals. It wasn't respectful at all to promote this caricature of Muslims as people who look at a stupid video and lose their minds, take to the streets, and work themselves up into a murderous rage. The video story could only work as a cover for the truth if it could be leveraged on an offensive stereotype of Muslims. It is the story about the response to the video — far more the video itself — that has "a deeply cynical purpose, to denigrate a great religion"! Why didn't Obama care that he was insulting Muslims in this weird charade about caring for Muslims?
Why was any of this worth doing, even cynically? Even if you assume Obama put his own reelection first, how could he possibly have selected this lie and thought it was a good idea? Yes, the planned terrorist attack in Libya hurts the image he would like to have as the vanquisher of al Qaeda, but the truth about that has already come out, with 3 weeks left to go before the election. By handling the matter the way he did, we have — on top of the damage to the vanquisher of al Qaeda image — a glaring lie and plain evidence of extremely poor judgment.
Is there a possibility that they wanted to keep what they knew pretty low key since there was still an active investigation and they didn't want the bad guys to know how much we did know?
Basically the whole "national security, we have to keep secret" tagline that conservatives usually like to use?
Edit:
Oh look, crazy random blog post.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/11 17:24:39
d-usa wrote: 5 days is not exactly a very long time though.
Is there a possibility that they wanted to keep what they knew pretty low key since there was still an active investigation and they didn't want the bad guys to know how much we did know?
Basically the whole "national security, we have to keep secret" tagline that conservatives usually like to use?
It seems unlikely, given that the investigation was...belated, at best. NBC was wandering around picking up classified documents, after all, with nary so much as a mall ninja in sight.
d-usa wrote: 5 days is not exactly a very long time though.
Is there a possibility that they wanted to keep what they knew pretty low key since there was still an active investigation and they didn't want the bad guys to know how much we did know?
Basically the whole "national security, we have to keep secret" tagline that conservatives usually like to use?
It seems unlikely, given that the investigation was...belated, at best. NBC was wandering around picking up classified documents, after all, with nary so much as a mall ninja in sight.
Have we had any actual boots on the ground there yet? I know last I heard about it they were still waiting "until things were safer".
This probably is the biggest foreign events screw-up of this administration.
Don't you think this whole thing was bizarre? It just strikes me that the Administration had political motives (albeit, strange ones) with this whole ordeal...
Don't you think this whole thing was bizarre? It just strikes me that the Administration had political motives (albeit, strange ones) with this whole ordeal...
Waiting until you know the facts doesn't have to equal political motives.
Saying "we were attacked by terrorists" is not something you want to take lightly.
d-usa wrote: 5 days is not exactly a very long time though.
Is there a possibility that they wanted to keep what they knew pretty low key since there was still an active investigation and they didn't want the bad guys to know how much we did know?
Basically the whole "national security, we have to keep secret" tagline that conservatives usually like to use?
It seems unlikely, given that the investigation was...belated, at best. NBC was wandering around picking up classified documents, after all, with nary so much as a mall ninja in sight.
Thats why no one saw them, they were using mall ninjas. No one ever sees the master mall ninja.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Wonder what classified info was lost there and the impact it would have.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
d-usa wrote: Surely if the government says no classified info was lost then that is the truth.
Or they need a special decoder ring to read the info.
How would they know? They never bothered to go look. We do know
*Names of people working with the US clandestinely were believed lost.
*A CNN reporter wandering around found the Ambassador's diary. The scene was never secured.
Its like watching the Carter adminstration in action.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
d-usa wrote: Well, if we know what the info was then it was not classified.
Not now!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Biden made the patently false and outrageous claim that no one in the Obama administration knew that requests for extra security had been made by our Libyan ambassador, Christopher Stevens, and other members of our consulate in Benghazi.
To emphasize his lie, Biden actually said it twice on the VP debate.
The claim is absolutely false. So false in fact, that his pals at MSNBC called him out on it:
If you think about the aftermath of the attack, 30, 000 people attacking a terrorist base, others running into the building to save the ambassador, and the crowd celebrating because they thought he could yet be saved, it seems silly to say there was a mass protest against the movie.
Relapse wrote: If you think about the aftermath of the attack, 30, 000 people attacking a terrorist bas[b]e, others running into the building to save the ambassador, and the crowd celebrating because they thought he could yet be saved[/b], it seems silly to say there was a mass protest against the movie.
Relapse wrote: If you think about the aftermath of the attack, 30, 000 people attacking a terrorist bas[b]e, others running into the building to save the ambassador, and the crowd celebrating because they thought he could yet be saved[/b], it seems silly to say there was a mass protest against the movie.
Yeah... we need more of this.
They chased any known or suspected terrorist straight to hell out of Dodge in the week following.
Frazzled wrote: I saw MSNBC and then I had to stop. You're such a comedian this morning!
There's a difference between journalism and reporting. Journalism involves the presentation of opinion, or additional relevant information, in order to contextualize a particular event. Reporting merely involves describing the event.
Fox and MSNBC both stand on roughly equal footing when it comes to bias in journalism, with CNN sitting somewhere in between. The major broadcast networks essentially only report.
Hillary has nothing to do with the decision making on additional security though. Thats handle by whoever is the contract specialist that deals with that. I think whoever is the "Mission Support Specialist" and superviser are at fault. Obama goes this route then we really need a new President.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
I don't think american lives got hunged on Rumsfield neck though
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Seeing as this regards Hillary Clinton and is coming from Ed Klein, it should be taken with a massive grain of salt. When the National Review says that your biographical attacks on Hillary Clinton are unfair, you know you've done something very wrong.
Jihadin wrote: I don't think american lives got hunged on Rumsfield neck though
Well, he was basically blamed for insisting on an approach to the Iraq invasion which was said to have cost too many American lives. It seems comparable to me.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/13 02:41:51
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Rumsfield did not have Operational control of the invasion as is Hillary not being the deciding factor for additional security for Benghazi. Only person in our time frame who committed a screw up of a similiar caliber with all the email train and documents literally pointing the finger was Aspin for the armored support in Somalia
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha