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I'm sorry people feel this way about Catachans. In MY OPINION, I just like the whole Rambo feel. And if "A tastless movie with bad acting" is one of my favorites then so be it. I like the way they are tasteless copies, because it just reminds me more of Rambo and all the other Nam movies. As for the mini's, I think the muscles could be SLIGHTLY downsized. Watch predator and look at Arnold, that would be a good size, so not much smaller. As for detail, what do you want to do, add veins!? In my opinion, Catachans are just awesome. And I know they're stuck in the 80's, I love the 80's! Though I know all people don't. But seriously, if people wan't a professional uniform looking army, why don't they go with whats truly tastless- Cadians. By the way I'm like 99% sure I would have made a Nam or Rambo guard army even if Catachans weren't invented. Thats all my venting for now, but its nice to see that people on this threa are backing up their opinions. Everyone has their own. Thanks!

The basic stuff jumping around as far as statlines seems ok, but some of the justifications are off...So why not this:

Deathworlder (Troops) 8-9 points apiece
WS: 4 (Hardened Fighters)
BS: 3 (Being good at hand-to-hand is more important than shooting anyways, and 3 is good enough)
S: 3
T: 3 (3/3, they are humans, come on.)
I: 4 (Being one to fight off jungle monsters, they would have the swift handiwork of an Eldar Guardian or Space Marine)
W:1 (Duh)
A: 1 (maybe 2, but really 2 per including CCW is good enough)
Ld: 8 (Good enough morale, besides these guys look death in the face everyday)
Sv: 6+ (They got vests, so yeah)

Wargear: Lascarbines(18" Assault), CCW
(Can exchange lascarbines for pistol for free)

Special Rules:
Stealth, Deathworld veterans, Stubborn
Deathworld veterans: Treat dangerous terrain as difficult (They live in jungles)
(Stubborn represents their hard as nails when it comes to fighting for their life, Stealth is no brainer, and the anti-danger is pretty straight forward)

Thank you to....I lost your name in the thread, for the idea on the ignoring dangerous terrain.

This is really rough of an attempt, so sorry if some of my logic is not sound.

I think that's the best one yet. Feels a bit more balanced. They'd still need to cost a bit more than regular guardsmen though unless you put in some restrictions like they can't have certain weapons or something

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I think that's the best one yet. Feels a bit more balanced. They'd still need to cost a bit more than regular guardsmen though unless you put in some restrictions like they can't have certain weapons or something

Seems like they would largely be limited to flamers, heavy flamers, and meltaguns; befitting their hit and run style of play.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I think that's the best one yet. Feels a bit more balanced. They'd still need to cost a bit more than regular guardsmen though unless you put in some restrictions like they can't have certain weapons or something

Seems like they would largely be limited to flamers, heavy flamers, and meltaguns; befitting their hit and run style of play.

That and they'd need demo charges, sniper rifles, and access to melta bombs/krak grenades. In the catachan mini dex, they also had what amounted to a plasma claymore mine. It blew up in a kind of template shape and looked like it'd be awesome in game.

No idea how you'd make it balanced though. As the only way to make it useful is to have it somewhere where the opponent doesn't know about it, but unless you trust your opponent, it could be abused. I need to buy the Catachan Mini dex now that I think about it and just start converting everything to current 40k/IG stats/costs. I really liked the idea they had going with it, and I think it'd be easiest to just build off of that.

As for heavy weapons, I could see them using missile launchers and heavy bolters, but that's about it in most engagements. Shame, because I hate those 2 weapons

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

As for heavy weapons, I could see them using missile launchers and heavy bolters, but that's about it in most engagements. Shame, because I hate those 2 weapons

Awe man, I love missile launchers.

Wish they were useful, because it's just such an iconically cool weapon to me.

I like Catachans, but then again, I like the Imperial Guard in general.

I think the Catachan models should lose the sculpted muscles and just be modeled with thick arms without sleeves, which would still look heavily muscled at a 28 mm scale.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

As for heavy weapons, I could see them using missile launchers and heavy bolters, but that's about it in most engagements. Shame, because I hate those 2 weapons

Awe man, I love missile launchers.

Wish they were useful, because it's just such an iconically cool weapon to me.

Dont get me wrong, I think those 2 are without a doubt the two coolest looking. I just hate that their in game stats aren't too great.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I just hate that their in game stats aren't too great.

*sniffle*

I play Elysians; that's a touchy subject.

(Our only heavy weapons. Aside from the laughable mortar.)

 TheCaptain wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I just hate that their in game stats aren't too great.

*sniffle*

I play Elysians; that's a touchy subject.

(Our only heavy weapons. Aside from the laughable mortar.)

I'm sorry for your loss. Next game I play I'll dedicate the first vehicle I blow up with my 15 lascannons to you

Although you can't complain, you've got deepstriking multimelta sentinels. I don't care how useless those things might be, that is awesome.

Speaking of which... I bet the catachan's would juryrig some multimelta sentinels. And "deepstrike" could just be the sentinel popped out of cover and ambushed the enemy! My evil plan is coming to fruition!

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

I'm sorry for your loss. Next game I play I'll dedicate the first vehicle I blow up with my 15 lascannons to you

I'm honored, sir.

Although you can't complain, you've got deepstriking multimelta sentinels. I don't care how useless those things might be, that is awesome.

Yeah...

Yeah...it's pretty damn nice.

Let me chip in on one my next and upcoming army

I like Catachans. Yes they are cheesy, have huge arms but I like the concept anyway. It's a matter of taste. Some armies do it for you, some don't. Nature of the game.

That being said,

If Catachans were to be given special rules:
Stealth, Stubborn and Move through cover (instead of the previously suggested rule of Deathworld veteran. I think it is best to work with available USRs rather than inserting too many special rules. No offense Da Kommizzar)

As for people suggesting they should only have flamers and maybe meltaguns, this is where I disagree.

Catachans have a PREFERENCE for Flamers and Heavy Bolters. But they are still soldiers. They will use the right too for the right job. No catachan in his right mind (not all of them I know) would go up against a tank with a heavy bolter or a flamer. They will get the right tool and make it happen.

I understand that catachans would dislike fragile "techie" weapons which could break down in adverse condition such as Plasma guns for exemple.

I wrote myself some "rules" about how my army would work and I wrote off Leman Russ Tanks. Too slow and not suited for moving in the thick jungle.

Long Range artillery is fine as they can be parked outside the jungle, remain in camp, don't need to keep pace with the infantry. It makes sense.

People often grab a little bit of fluff and cast the whole thing in cement as the ONLY fluff and close themselves to alternate views.

Catachans are based on vietnam's USMCs. Well back then they had gunship support, artillery support. The batteries would not follow them 15' behind but it does not mean it was unavailable to them.

I don't understand it either I love Catachans they remind me of a "nam" army.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I just hate that their in game stats aren't too great.

*sniffle*

I play Elysians; that's a touchy subject.

(Our only heavy weapons. Aside from the laughable mortar.)

Cry about it, Krieg have 0 flyers or anti flyer.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I just hate that their in game stats aren't too great.

*sniffle*

I play Elysians; that's a touchy subject.

(Our only heavy weapons. Aside from the laughable mortar.)

Cry about it, Krieg have 0 flyers or anti flyer.

Aside from the Quad guns everyone has access to.

Also, the Tau would like a word with you.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Catachans have a PREFERENCE for Flamers and Heavy Bolters.

Meltaguns, Meltabombs, Demo Charges.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I just hate that their in game stats aren't too great.

*sniffle*

I play Elysians; that's a touchy subject.

(Our only heavy weapons. Aside from the laughable mortar.)

Cry about it, Krieg have 0 flyers or anti flyer.

Aside from the Quad guns everyone has access to.

Also, the Tau would like a word with you.

Tau have twin linked broadside.

Ask theCaptain how his flyer list fared agaisnt those guys.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I just hate that their in game stats aren't too great.

*sniffle*

I play Elysians; that's a touchy subject.

(Our only heavy weapons. Aside from the laughable mortar.)

Cry about it, Krieg have 0 flyers or anti flyer.

Aside from the Quad guns everyone has access to.

Also, the Tau would like a word with you.

Tau have twin linked broadside.

Ask theCaptain how his flyer list fared agaisnt those guys.

A 32% chance of hitting per shot. Aah. Unless they're spammed or sat on a skyfire nexus, I really don't seem much of a threat. If we're talking Croissant spam, then it still isn't scary.
And no, I think we'll leave single cases out of a general discussion.

That's still better than what Krieg have, to be honest.

The best thing I see would be to use the HWP, but that can get rather expensive.

They are, for the most part, absolutely hideous, absurdly out of proportion figures with a kinda cheesy trope.

 Bobthehero wrote:
That's still better than what Krieg have, to be honest.

The best thing I see would be to use the HWP, but that can get rather expensive.

Ally with Codex guard and take a Hydra? Or several?

I could say the same for Tau, really.

From what I've seen in the books catachans are hard to represent on the table unlike most IG armies.

- They rely on infantry that is harder and faster than standard IG, but not strong enough to be S4/T4.

- They rely mostly on skirmish level tactics on deathworlds with survival and various trap based warfare as they pin down the enemy overtime.

- They mostly use Lascarbines and fight on the move, always being mobile, they also fight with death world poisons, flamers, heavy bolters, with varied explosive weaponry based on what sort of unit it is, though they do usually have something that can deal with tanks (Krak or Melta)

They just feel more like something you'd see in a skirmish level game, not a full army based one.

It just feels incredibly awkward using standard IG rules with a Catachan force.

If they brought back doctrines or something similar, I can see Catachans being more popular.

I all but hate Catachans mainly because, from how I see it, they stand so far apart from the rest of the IG. What I like about the IG is that, for the most part, they're normal humans, thrown against the worst the galaxy has to offer them. They're not super strong or tough, they have equipment that holds up well to their own weapons but is worthless in the face of bolters, shuriken catapults, gauss, ect. They're not supremely skilled, save for the stormtroopers and the grizzled vets. They're the common man, but nevertheless, they see to their duty.

Then there's the Catachans, who have 5+ saves from their muscles, who come from the most DANGEROUS and INFAMOUS death world in the galaxy with lifeforms that would make Darwin spin in his grave, but survive there because they're just that good, where they have sergeants who can wrestle Tyranid Raveners to death because they're just that strong, and get away with killing their commissars because they just don't like them, and feth yeah they're just that badass.

Imo they're the special snowflake of IG regiments and simply aren't to my taste, especially when they're consistently all treated like mini-Rambos. Not gonna fault anyone who does like them, it's just personal taste lol. There is some of their fluff like the Flaming Devils I like but meh.

What FinalAnswer said-
"Then there's the Catachans, who have 5+ saves from their muscles, who come from the most DANGEROUS and INFAMOUS death world in the galaxy with lifeforms that would make Darwin spin in his grave, but survive there because they're just that good, where they have sergeants who can wrestle Tyranid Raveners to death because they're just that strong, and get away with killing their commissars because they just don't like them, and feth yeah they're just that badass."

Exactly! By the way I like Da Kommizar's rule set.

 Bobthehero wrote:

Tau have twin linked broadside.

Ask theCaptain how his flyer list fared agaisnt those guys.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

Tau have twin linked broadside.

Ask theCaptain how his flyer list fared agaisnt those guys.

Wasn't pretty :(

Sure, they might only have a 32% chance to hit, but they're almost guaranteed a glance on AV12, and if they pen it's +2 to their damage rolls. Which is bad for a flyer.

They get 2+ saves with loads of shield drones.

Broadside spam is just generally one of the tougher lists for flyers to cope with. (aside from other flyerspam)

there look makes them unique.
Id like to see a separate codex's in the future for armys like it and others i could name like different tau septs dark eldar factions eldar orks yada yada

Maybe GW should make some more PDF mini-dexes for all the sub-factions.