Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

But I1m more concerned about the MoO's "friendly fire effectiveness". There are only a few things that are worse than a loose MoO shot landing right in the middle of your objective-holding troops .

Which I find odd for somebody in favor of a Manticore.
2D6" scatter, with a 5" template flop for the 2nd and 3rd blast isn't all that much less friendly than a 3D6 inch scatter.
You simply don't want to use barrages for close fire-support, unless those shots are coming from a griffon.

Run a psyker with divination and TL the manticore with the prescience power. Improves its effectiveness substantially.

Ok, this thread is losing some of its purpose. Ailaros wants help beating chimera spam using foot guard. Last I checked, allies, whether they're doom scythes, rune priests, or anything else, thats not foot guard. Not trying to anger people, but thats like me going into a ork thread and going "why not kill armor with meltagun vets in a vendetta?"

Same, sadly, goes for most forgeworld stuff. Not everyone is lucky enough to have stores that widely accept FW, so even though a forgeworld choice may be perfect, not everyone can use it.

 AtoMaki wrote:


And the Manticores are best used with Vendettas:
1st turn: Manticores suppress stuff with pens (auto-penetrates AV10)
2nd turn: Vendettas come in and wreck 3 vehicles, Maticores keep suppressing the rest
3rd turn: Vendettas enter Hover Mode, vets/SWS bail out, mop up begins
4th turn: at this point you probably wrecked 8+ enemy vehicles, the enemy is in disarray, so you can move out to capture objectives or whatever you want

Wow, you are very optimistic, aren't you?

1) Manticore will probably hit the chimera wall, I agree with that. But it is possible (and there is a good chance for it) it will not do anything besides striping one or two vehicles from 1 Hull point and maybe shake it, which I do not see as a good result against chimera wall.
2) Reserves are 3+. You can not count with 3 Vendettas coming in turn 2. Even if they would come, there is only a small chance you actually destroy 3 vehicles. Very small. There are many things that can go wrong. Maybe you will not hit (yes, it happens from time to time, even to TL weapons), maybe you will not penetrate (against AV12 you have only 50%), maybe enemy has cover, jink, invul, smokes (chimera wall will probably be smoked), maybe you roll badly on dammage table. I usually play with 2 vendettas and in my games they almost always manage to kill one vehicle when they show up. Sometimes they kill two, sometimes they do nothing, but most probable outcome is to destroy one vehicle (it depends on the vehicle you are shoting at of course).
3) Your enemy can have a quad gun. Yes, it only has a small chance to explode vendetta, but when this happens, it is a big, really big blow to your army (especially when you have infantry on board). You opponent can also shot your flyer down even with no skyfire weapons. TL or massed fire can destroy a flyer, it is in no way impossible. Or he can destroy it with his own flyers. You can not take for granted your vendettas will live to see another turn.

You overestimate your Vendettas and underestimate your opponents army. If he playes chimera wall, it is possible he has his own vendettas. In that case, your flyers can go down with the rest of the soldiers on board with ease.

So, again, you are too optimistic I think


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Ok, this thread is losing some of its purpose. Ailaros wants help beating chimera spam using foot guard. Last I checked, allies, whether they're doom scythes, rune priests, or anything else, thats not foot guard. Not trying to anger people, but thats like me going into a ork thread and going "why not kill armor with meltagun vets in a vendetta?"

Same, sadly, goes for most forgeworld stuff. Not everyone is lucky enough to have stores that widely accept FW, so even though a forgeworld choice may be perfect, not everyone can use it.

Agree, Ailaros obviously does not play with allies or forgeworld stuff (checked his batreps), it is not helpfull to advice him to use it when he does not want to. What can help against chimera wall, are blasts, DS, outflank. MoO is a good choice IMHO, he is very cheap and can hit a parking place even with his unaccurate bombardment. Good choices are imho also Marbo, suicide melta Stormies (for taking out stuff like Manticore or Leman), Rahem with melta/plazma PISs and SWSs.

I agree mech-vet list is very tough opponent for a foot guard.

I play Foot Guard and IG Mechspam is about the best matchup I can get. People don't even take the Heavy Flamer on every Chimera anymore, it's just perfect.

The trick is to maximize what you do by playing Foot Guard - you have cheap units, lots of them. Don't take any units that could become priority targets for your opponents.

No HWS
No Heavy Support units
No Elites (except maybe some Ratlings if you really want them)

So basically, all you bring are Blobs and Command Squads, plus the occasional Scout Sentinels for flavor. It will get you to 200 bodies real fast, even at 1800 points. Half of them should have some Lascannons or Autocannons in the PIS or CCS, the other half are tooled up with 'nades and a Meltagun in each PIS, with Commissars to keep up morale on the tooled-up blobs.

The Lascannons should be able to take out the occasional horde killer that Mech Guard sometimes bring (Hellhound!), but even if they don't, just think what in a mech list could even dream of stopping 100 advancing Guardsmen that are backed up by 100 shooting/objective-holding Guardsmen. Once you get close, its Krak and Melta-gun/bombs party time!

Aleinikov wrote:
but even if they don't, just think what in a mech list could even dream of stopping 100 advancing Guardsmen that are backed up by 100 shooting/objective-holding Guardsmen

You make that sound difficult in an 1800 point list. Manticores are pretty common and they can sweep through advancing mobs of guard. Similarly Griffons have a great effect on them. Eventually you'll fail a Ld test even with the Ld 9 commissars in there. Flamer PCS is also very common and that can wipe out entire units at a time if it's given the chance. I think you're over estimating the power of 100 crappy men with no armor save and at best a 5+ cover save if they're lucky. Just so happens that barrage weapons will likely negate this and flamers will flat out ignore it.

Aleinikov wrote:
I play Foot Guard and IG Mechspam is about the best matchup I can get. People don't even take the Heavy Flamer on every Chimera anymore, it's just perfect.

The trick is to maximize what you do by playing Foot Guard - you have cheap units, lots of them. Don't take any units that could become priority targets for your opponents.

No HWS
No Heavy Support units
No Elites (except maybe some Ratlings if you really want them)

So basically, all you bring are Blobs and Command Squads, plus the occasional Scout Sentinels for flavor. It will get you to 200 bodies real fast, even at 1800 points. Half of them should have some Lascannons or Autocannons in the PIS or CCS, the other half are tooled up with 'nades and a Meltagun in each PIS, with Commissars to keep up morale on the tooled-up blobs.

The Lascannons should be able to take out the occasional horde killer that Mech Guard sometimes bring (Hellhound!), but even if they don't, just think what in a mech list could even dream of stopping 100 advancing Guardsmen that are backed up by 100 shooting/objective-holding Guardsmen. Once you get close, its Krak and Melta-gun/bombs party time!

Problems are the lack of mobility - the Chimerae can focus down the officers then tank shock the LD8 blobs for infinity days.

My Armored Battlegroup list routinely tank-shocks enemies off of the board, because of 10 or so tests on the main enemy unit if I coordinate right.

 Griddlelol wrote:

Aleinikov wrote:
but even if they don't, just think what in a mech list could even dream of stopping 100 advancing Guardsmen that are backed up by 100 shooting/objective-holding Guardsmen

You make that sound difficult in an 1800 point list. Manticores are pretty common and they can sweep through advancing mobs of guard. Similarly Griffons have a great effect on them. Eventually you'll fail a Ld test even with the Ld 9 commissars in there. Flamer PCS is also very common and that can wipe out entire units at a time if it's given the chance. I think you're over estimating the power of 100 crappy men with no armor save and at best a 5+ cover save if they're lucky. Just so happens that barrage weapons will likely negate this and flamers will flat out ignore it.

Manticores are much overcosted for what they can do against foot IG. Sure, they can kill a bunch, but not enough if the troops are properly spaced. Griffons do hurt and can spoil the game for you. So far, I haven't seen more than 2 in a list ever, and if you can kill them early enough with the heavy weapons, it can still work out. Griffons sure make for a difficult game but its still far from an auto loss. Now if you run into 2 Griffons + Manticore + another pie-plate tank it means trouble. I don't consider it likely to happen, though.

I also do not see Leadership test as an issue. It takes an awful lot to kill enough guardsmen in a 30-50 men blob to cause a check, and that check is againsts Ld9 rerollable. It's a) not likely to happen and b) a failed test is =/= lost game. There are 2 CCS to help with orders, and even failing that, all a failed check does is slow down the advance.

Flamer PCS??? Really??? That's 5 guardsmen in a Chimera. You should have just enough firepower in your list to deal with that before you close in for Flamers to become dangerous.

Aleinikov wrote:
The Lascannons should be able to take out the occasional horde killer that Mech Guard sometimes bring (Hellhound!), but even if they don't, just think what in a mech list could even dream of stopping 100 advancing Guardsmen that are backed up by 100 shooting/objective-holding Guardsmen. Once you get close, its Krak and Melta-gun/bombs party time!

100 advancing guardsmen is a nice snack for mech guard chimera spam...(imagine about 6 chimeras with veteran squads or CCS inside + manticore firing into T3 models...a masacre!..and once you "get close" its chimera heavy flaming time + rapid firing from vets inside)
100 backfield guardsmen with LCs can do some dammage, but not much really. Of course I count with savvy opponent who will kill your leaders first to deny orders.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Aleinikov wrote:
I...

Problems are the lack of mobility - the Chimerae can focus down the officers then tank shock the LD8 blobs for infinity days.

My Armored Battlegroup list routinely tank-shocks enemies off of the board, because of 10 or so tests on the main enemy unit if I coordinate right.

Yes, mobility can be a problem, fully agree. Dark-/ Eldar or the like can be trouble to get a hold of. Mech IG though isn't exactly mobile either. Sooner rather than later those tanks will have nowhere to go, and thats only if they sacrifice firepower for mobility.

Can you explain how you focus fire down 3-5 sergeants plus commissar with Chimerea? Keep in mind the commissar will do the best he can to hide behind terrain, while trailing behind the unit.

I arm my advancing blobs with Meltaguns and Meltabombs not least because I want to stop tank shocks. It'd be extremely difficult for you to find a tank shock route without running into a Meltagun or Bomb. There are few easier ways for foot guard to kill tanks than death-or-glory. The cost vs benefit works much in favor of the foot Guard.

Certainly, you will only ever get one round of tank-shocking, no infinity days there. Even if one blob runs away (how many tank shocks would that take? Minimum 3 I guess), there should be another blob right behind. Thats 3 Chimerea + content dead for the price of one blob pushed back a few inches. Is that worth it?

Aleinikov wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Aleinikov wrote:
I...

Problems are the lack of mobility - the Chimerae can focus down the officers then tank shock the LD8 blobs for infinity days.

My Armored Battlegroup list routinely tank-shocks enemies off of the board, because of 10 or so tests on the main enemy unit if I coordinate right.

Yes, mobility can be a problem, fully agree. Dark-/ Eldar or the like can be trouble to get a hold of. Mech IG though isn't exactly mobile either. Sooner rather than later those tanks will have nowhere to go, and thats only if they sacrifice firepower for mobility.

Can you explain how you focus fire down 3-5 sergeants plus commissar with Chimerea? Keep in mind the commissar will do the best he can to hide behind terrain, while trailing behind the unit.

I arm my advancing blobs with Meltaguns and Meltabombs not least because I want to stop tank shocks. It'd be extremely difficult for you to find a tank shock route without running into a Meltagun or Bomb. There are few easier ways for foot guard to kill tanks than death-or-glory. The cost vs benefit works much in favor of the foot Guard.

Certainly, you will only ever get one round of tank-shocking, no infinity days there. Even if one blob runs away (how many tank shocks would that take? Minimum 3 I guess), there should be another blob right behind. Thats 3 Chimerea + content dead for the price of one blob pushed back a few inches. Is that worth it?

You don't focus down the officers in the squads. You focus down commands squads and the like, to remove the GBiTF order.

As for meltaguns and meltabombs - it's not that hard to avoid them. Either they're in the front of the blob, in which case they're the first to bite it when bullets fly, or they're in the back and I only have to tank shock like 3 inches into the blob and contact the lead man with a lasgun.

EDIT:
Actually, I don't remember if one must move 12" during a tank shock (or at least top speed). If so, then it's harder with Chimeras. A Russ can only ever go 6".

 Lothar wrote:

Wow, you are very optimistic, aren't you?
*stuff*
So, again, you are too optimistic I think

Wow, is this a sarcasm post? My Sarcasm Detector is off nowadays, so just askin' to be sure .

If not, then sorry, I can't get your point. I mean, we might just stop playing IG altogether, because you opponent can wreck your plan with his stuff. You MoO will die from 10 infiltrating Ratling shots (alongside with you CCS), your HWS armada will vapourize behind their Aegis Defence Line because of the enemy Manticores, and you blobs will be r*ped by everything else. So why should we even bother? Just take the trustworthy Nob Bikers and everything will be just fine. And this thread is completely pointless (doh!).

Aleinikov wrote:

Manticores are much overcosted for what they can do against foot IG. Sure, they can kill a bunch, but not enough if the troops are properly spaced. Griffons do hurt and can spoil the game for you. So far, I haven't seen more than 2 in a list ever, and if you can kill them early enough with the heavy weapons, it can still work out. Griffons sure make for a difficult game but its still far from an auto loss. Now if you run into 2 Griffons + Manticore + another pie-plate tank it means trouble. I don't consider it likely to happen, though.

They're not over-costed considering most people take them in an all-comers list. They'd be there whether it's against guard, necrons or MEQ. The ability to snipe out the scary parts of blobs is something you're over looking. Barrage can take out that commissar or melta gun pretty easily, especially the Griffon. Another assumption you make is that you can see the barrage weapons to shoot at them.

Flamer PCS??? Really??? That's 5 guardsmen in a Chimera. You should have just enough firepower in your list to deal with that before you close in for Flamers to become dangerous.

Who said anything about them being in a chimera? So now you've changed from "you can't deal with 100 men" to "you should be able to deal with 100 men before flamers". It's also a key to note that multiple versions of these in your back field will cause havoc for your scoring units.

My point is, advancing guardsmen aren't scary to a leaf-blower list.

 Lothar wrote:

Aleinikov wrote:
The Lascannons should be able to take out the occasional horde killer that Mech Guard sometimes bring (Hellhound!), but even if they don't, just think what in a mech list could even dream of stopping 100 advancing Guardsmen that are backed up by 100 shooting/objective-holding Guardsmen. Once you get close, its Krak and Melta-gun/bombs party time!

100 advancing guardsmen is a nice snack for mech guard chimera spam...(imagine about 6 chimeras with veteran squads or CCS inside + manticore firing into T3 models...a masacre!..and once you "get close" its chimera heavy flaming time + rapid firing from vets inside)
100 backfield guardsmen with LCs can do some dammage, but not much really. Of course I count with savvy opponent who will kill your leaders first to deny orders.

Do your Chimeras all have Heavy Flamers? Most Chimeras I have seen in 6th edition have hull HB for the extra (snap) shots. If all of yours still have them, I give you that you have a chance (though not the massacre you expect). Flamer range means I'm close, and I don't need 100 guardsmen to clear a parking lot. All it takes to reliably kill an IG tank is 9 simple Guardsmen.

I also think your are overestimating the output of your Mech Vets. This is theoryhammer much, but assuming all your Chimeras have HF (unlikely), all of them survive long enough (highly unlikely) and get in perfect position (even less likely) for a simultanous superflame/rapidfire party, you could kill one blob in a single turn. Well, there are two more blobs right behind, and you can say goodbye to 1000 points of your army.

6th edition also helped with the "kill the leaders". Keeping the Company Commander alive was an issue in 5th, but now, he'll just sit out of LOS and give orders, while his squad can be in LOS to shoot a bit until they are killed. Again, Griffons can become a problem. Everything else - not so much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Aleinikov wrote:

Manticores are much overcosted for what they can do against foot IG. Sure, they can kill a bunch, but not enough if the troops are properly spaced. Griffons do hurt and can spoil the game for you. So far, I haven't seen more than 2 in a list ever, and if you can kill them early enough with the heavy weapons, it can still work out. Griffons sure make for a difficult game but its still far from an auto loss. Now if you run into 2 Griffons + Manticore + another pie-plate tank it means trouble. I don't consider it likely to happen, though.

They're not over-costed considering most people take them in an all-comers list. They'd be there whether it's against guard, necrons or MEQ. The ability to snipe out the scary parts of blobs is something you're over looking. Barrage can take out that commissar or melta gun pretty easily, especially the Griffon. Another assumption you make is that you can see the barrage weapons to shoot at them.

Flamer PCS??? Really??? That's 5 guardsmen in a Chimera. You should have just enough firepower in your list to deal with that before you close in for Flamers to become dangerous.

Who said anything about them being in a chimera? So now you've changed from "you can't deal with 100 men" to "you should be able to deal with 100 men before flamers". It's also a key to note that multiple versions of these in your back field will cause havoc for your scoring units.

My point is, advancing guardsmen aren't scary to a leaf-blower list.

Have you played leafblower against a real horde ever? I doubt it from what you are theorizing.

So your Flamer PCS is on foot? I'm sure I'll find a few superflouos Lasgun shots to take care of them. In a Chimera they might even get to use their flamers on my infantry if I don't actively target them first. On foot they almost certainly die before doing any harm.

Your multiple Flamer PCS get into my backfield? I guess you have me confused. How is that supposed to work?

And on the Manticore; I was very clear that its cost is a specific problem against foot IG, not in general. You pay for S10 when S5 would do just as well.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Aleinikov wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Aleinikov wrote:
I...

Problems are the lack of mobility - the Chimerae can focus down the officers then tank shock the LD8 blobs for infinity days.

My Armored Battlegroup list routinely tank-shocks enemies off of the board, because of 10 or so tests on the main enemy unit if I coordinate right.

Yes, mobility can be a problem, fully agree. Dark-/ Eldar or the like can be trouble to get a hold of. Mech IG though isn't exactly mobile either. Sooner rather than later those tanks will have nowhere to go, and thats only if they sacrifice firepower for mobility.

Can you explain how you focus fire down 3-5 sergeants plus commissar with Chimerea? Keep in mind the commissar will do the best he can to hide behind terrain, while trailing behind the unit.

I arm my advancing blobs with Meltaguns and Meltabombs not least because I want to stop tank shocks. It'd be extremely difficult for you to find a tank shock route without running into a Meltagun or Bomb. There are few easier ways for foot guard to kill tanks than death-or-glory. The cost vs benefit works much in favor of the foot Guard.

Certainly, you will only ever get one round of tank-shocking, no infinity days there. Even if one blob runs away (how many tank shocks would that take? Minimum 3 I guess), there should be another blob right behind. Thats 3 Chimerea + content dead for the price of one blob pushed back a few inches. Is that worth it?

You don't focus down the officers in the squads. You focus down commands squads and the like, to remove the GBiTF order.

As for meltaguns and meltabombs - it's not that hard to avoid them. Either they're in the front of the blob, in which case they're the first to bite it when bullets fly, or they're in the back and I only have to tank shock like 3 inches into the blob and contact the lead man with a lasgun.

EDIT:
Actually, I don't remember if one must move 12" during a tank shock (or at least top speed). If so, then it's harder with Chimeras. A Russ can only ever go 6".

Without having the rulebook in hand, I think you must go over 6" to tank shock, but don't have to go full 12". You may be able to avoid melta sometimes, but I think I can make that difficult most of the time, even without putting too great a risk on getting my melta dudes gunned down.

I see your point on targeting the CCS, but that would mean the blobs roll on LD9 rerollable for the tank shock. I heavily doubt you can shock enough to cause a failed check. And again, a tank that just shocked into a blob is almost certainly dead the next turn.

In general, tank shocking lost some effectiveness in 6th. Failed morale check hurt less, and vehicles that run into the enemy will always die in CC the next turn.

You guys are assuming that the chimeras will even make it that close to be able to tank shock the infantry. Going against probably 15 plus lascannons/autocannons may make that difficult. Even if they do, Death or Glory with a meltagun will make short work of them.

An issue with a list like that though is force concentration, and its vulnerability to blast templates. Sure you could space the men out, but with that many bodies, it might be difficult doing it in your DZ.

It is fun to play with 1-200 guys on the table though, and seeing your opponents face as you deploy your men is priceless :p

seanm222 wrote:
You guys are assuming that the chimeras will even make it that close to be able to tank shock the infantry. Going against probably 15 plus lascannons/autocannons may make that difficult. Even if they do, Death or Glory with a meltagun will make short work of them.

An issue with a list like that though is force concentration, and its vulnerability to blast templates. Sure you could space the men out, but with that many bodies, it might be difficult doing it in your DZ.

It is fun to play with 1-200 guys on the table though, and seeing your opponents face as you deploy your men is priceless :p

Uh; you ever play against a leafblower?

It's like Alienkov has never heard of a Vendetta...

I'll throw in another pitch for the Griffon to battle Chimera spam at 1000pts...


1) It's accurate. 5/9 or 56 % to hit the mark even if it does not see (or be seen by) its target.

2) A hit has 75% chance of at least glancing AV10 side armor. Chance of penetrating is 56%

This is actually better than a LRBT vs the AV12 front armor as the LRBT is less accurate.


While the Chimera-killing powers of a Griffon are not altogether convincing compared to a PiS with a lascannon...

3) ...once the tiny men are out of the can a Griffon is a much better tool than a lascannon to take them out.


Ailaros: Could you post a sample list of what you expect from this guy. Could be helpful as at least I tend to overestimate the number of hulls / tanks / guns / rockets you actually get for 1000pts.

Aleinikov wrote:
Do your Chimeras all have Heavy Flamers? Most Chimeras I have seen in 6th edition have hull HB for the extra (snap) shots.

Of course they still have heavy flamers. Taking the hull HB is an overreaction to 6th edition suddenly allowing something new and everyone rushing to try it out. Once you take a minute to think about it you realize that a snapfire HB is laughably ineffective and you're better off keeping the HF.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Same, sadly, goes for most forgeworld stuff. Not everyone is lucky enough to have stores that widely accept FW, so even though a forgeworld choice may be perfect, not everyone can use it.

Solution: don't play against people who house rule that your army isn't legal. Refusing to discuss FW options makes about as much sense as having a discussion of how to play infantry guard if you hate buying weapon upgrades and refuse to take heavy/special weapons.

 Peregrine wrote:

Aleinikov wrote:
Do your Chimeras all have Heavy Flamers? Most Chimeras I have seen in 6th edition have hull HB for the extra (snap) shots.

Of course they still have heavy flamers. Taking the hull HB is an overreaction to 6th edition suddenly allowing something new and everyone rushing to try it out. Once you take a minute to think about it you realize that a snapfire HB is laughably ineffective and you're better off keeping the HF.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Same, sadly, goes for most forgeworld stuff. Not everyone is lucky enough to have stores that widely accept FW, so even though a forgeworld choice may be perfect, not everyone can use it.

Solution: don't play against people who house rule that your army isn't legal. Refusing to discuss FW options makes about as much sense as having a discussion of how to play infantry guard if you hate buying weapon upgrades and refuse to take heavy/special weapons.

Well I'm sorry but some people literally just don't have the option. I've been trying to get my groups to allow FW for months and they'll have none of it.

If I said I'm not playing unless I get to use FW, I would literally never be able to get a game at all. Ailaros is in a similar situation if I remember correctly. Trust me, if I could be using FW I would, but some areas just aren't open to that. We can beg and plead all we want, but some people just won't allow it

 Griddlelol wrote:
It's like Alienkov has never heard of a Vendetta...

Great. You bring Vendettas against foot guard. Congratulations, you just wasted 130 points on a flyer that will kill less than 20 points of the horde per turn that it is on the board, all while being hard to move around on a board swamped in bodies.

You underestimate the footprint of a huge horde. I don't think you will get to disembark your Flamer unit where you want it. Sure, you can find some real estate to land your Vendetta and burn some Guardsmen, but it certainly won't be were it will really hurt the horde. Then your PCS dies.

Aleinikov wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
It's like Alienkov has never heard of a Vendetta...

Great. You bring Vendettas against foot guard. Congratulations, you just wasted 130 points on a flyer that will kill less than 20 points of the horde per turn that it is on the board, all while being hard to move around on a board swamped in bodies.

You underestimate the footprint of a huge horde. I don't think you will get to disembark your Flamer unit where you want it. Sure, you can find some real estate to land your Vendetta and burn some Guardsmen, but it certainly won't be were it will really hurt the horde. Then your PCS dies.

I gues the difference between how you look at tactics and how most people look is that most plan around making an all comers list. Not by tailoring their list to a specific opponent. Yes I'd bring vendettas vs food guard since I'd bring vendettas vs just about every other opponent I'd come across. They may not be efficient vs a horde or guardsmen but they are against every other opponent I'm likely to come across in a tournament and so aren't going to be left out a list nor the tactics used by that list. You argument that a horde strolling across a table is a force to be reconed with is pretty poor. Those guardsmen just aren't scary anymore.