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I never saw someone use them as such, but I don't think GW intended them that way. Unless I am truly missing something.

As for the Fallen, to keep them in line with other models of "comparable" age (fluff-wise) wouldn't it just be the equivalent of a CSM with the VotLW rule added... hence not that powerful?

They are loyalists for sure, not Fallen or traitors, seeing as the book in question is all loyalist, every page.

Apologies for the threadomancy! Just wanted to clarify on the first two illustrations here:

 sphynx wrote:
First picture reminds me of Cypher. Good stuff.

Yup, that's because it is. The first two illustrations in this thread are slightly updated versions of concept art for a reinvisioned Cypher and a Scout character called Mordekai. Both were done in 2005 for the 4th Edition Dark Angels Codex, but didn't wind up being used. I'm not at home now, but I have a photo of the concept art saved to my computer there (on which Cypher is clearly labelled as such) - if I'm allowed to post it, I will.

The only real differences between this painting of Cypher and the sketch that it was based on is that he originally had armour trim that could be mistaken for Chaos iconography, he had the C'tan phase knife and a reliquary in place of the blackpowder pistols, and his backpack wasn't so absurdly elaborate. Oh, and no rose-bush iconography on his right shoulder. In all honestly, I prefer Cypher's original bare-bones look, but he'd do well with an update at this point - a fusion of his current look with Mark IV armour or something, to reinforce his ties to the Dark Angels Legion.

I get the feeling that these were put in the book to make Cypher's allegiance much more ambiguous (even if Jervis Johnson did once say outright that he's not a CSM).

 BrookM wrote:
They are loyalists for sure, not Fallen or traitors, seeing as the book in question is all loyalist, every page.

Once a traitor always a traitor in my book!

I like the fact that the actual book will have no explaiing text what so ever.
The uncertain loyalties of these guys are a really nice touch to represent DAs status among the Astartes.
Ofcourse, Im a spacewolf player, so I would not trust them no matter the amount of aquilas and imperial bling.

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.