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 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

bigginhouse wrote:
Vect is the oldest and most experienced one there, he is older Slaanesh. He has never been marked by a wound. He is such a tactical genius he conquered the dark city by ordering his own troops deaths. His orbs absorb wounds as well and would wound everyone on a 4+. He is clearly the winner, plus he's faster then them all anyway so he can hit first always in this case and has crazy stats. He would have already figured out what to do and have an ambush set up and the dias waiting for him to torture the losers for many many lovely years.

Swarmlord insta gibs him with a single successful hit. Abbadon simply has a much more monstrous stat line with S4 & T5 and a 2+. With his daemon weapon he can go for mass attacks and off Bael in 1 turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:

An'ggrath would slaughter a squad of 5 abaddons in 2 turns. He's now S: D with 10 attacks standard, more attacks on each 6 to hit, and more attacks on the charge.

What rules / book is in these days TSK?
I couldnt find him.

I think he's in the new apoc book. I remember someone mentioned to me he's in the new apoc book. I don't have it though.

The operative word there being 'successful'...

He has a 2+ inv to contend with. See above posts

He doesn't NEED a monstrous statline. He'll be wounding you on 3's anyway, and soaking your hits with superior technology

Sure, he dies fast if someone wounds him, but that's the trick... getting that wound in.

Vect has a 2+ invul? He's T3 and his armor is garbage.
Whatever Abaddon will actually take a successful wound, every 6 wounds with that 2+ armor. He can also insta kill Vect with the daemon weapon, or just overload him with piles of wounds at S: 5.
Swarmlord will kill Vect regardless due to every wound inflicting instant death. Vect isn't the oldest simply due to being Dark Eldar which are among the newest factions. They didn't exist until 10k ago, and I assume Vect isn't as old as the Dark Eldar race. I think Abaddon is actually older due to being 10000+ years old. The Swarmlord is completely unique and is reincarnated with the same consciousness, personality and well "soul". He's by far the oldest of any of the contenders. In all likelihood he's over a million years old.

He is indeed T 3. He's an Eldar. T3 comes standard Vect predates the fall IIRC, which happened well before the horus Heresy, so he's older than Abbadon. A lot of the older archons predate the fall, as does Urien. They are effectively immortal. The Craftworld Eldar didn't exist that long ago either, because they and the Dark Eldar were jsut the Eldar before that. They predate the faction.

His armour is 4+ 6++ - not bad for DE, plus a 2++ Shadowfield. Sure it's not 2+ 3++, but it gets the job done. Since when is a 2++ save garbage?

Abbadon will pretty much beat Vect hands down in a fight. I'm not denying that, as he has lots of attacks which will wound on 2's. He is much better at punching through a 2++ save due to the mass of attacks he can pile on.

Swarmlord, not so much. He has fewer attacks, so less chance of cracking the shadowfield and killing Vect that turn (see above posts). He only needs one wound to get through to tag Vect, but just because he can kill him in one blow doesn't mean he will that round. Meanwhile Vect is hitting first, generally, wounding on 3's and ignoring swarmy's armour. Swarmy will likely still win, but he'll know he was in a fight.

mathhammer will only give you the average anyway. I've seen a shadowfield archon die to the first hit in a game, or last the entire game under heavy fire without losing the field. Average gives him 5 saves before he dies, which might well see him into a second round of CC with swarmy.

I'm not going to rehash the same explanation every time someone says 'but Vect will get instakilled with a single punch', as it gets old. Read my earlier posts, or ignore them and go your own way

 Ascalam wrote:
Average rolling would dicate roughly one wound lost to blast pistol, about 6 hits allowing for PE, and lets say 4 wounds (possibly 5 with PE, but we'll leave it at 4) - Swarmy will probably block 2 of these, so will be left with two wounds. Swarmy then gets to swing on Vect.

7 WS 8 attacks with PE will not get 6 hits against the Swarmlord, so it would be more like 4 hits, 3 wounds, 1.5 unsaved. So it would take Vect about 3 rounds average to kill the Swarmlord in close combat, 5 with Endurance up.

The Swarmlord meanwhile will make 4 attacks, 3 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved, Swarmlord kills Vect in 1 round on average.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
fluffwise If Calgar won then Abaddon should have little to no trouble killing the glorified hive tyrant... It comes down to Abaddon and the Swarmlord.

Calgar has fought the Swarmlord 3 times, twice he was completely owned and only survived because his honour guard carried him while feeding themselves to the Swarmlord to buy the others time to escape. The only time Calgar has bested the Swarmlord is on Ichar IV, where led a drop pod assault that "ended with the Chapter Master slaying the Swarmlord in single combat". Considering how pathetic his track record is against the Swarmlord I can only assume that by "ended" they mean "Calgar fed most of his forces to Swarmlord to weaken it then sucker-punched the already mortally wounded Tyranid, claiming all the glory for himself".

As far as Abaddon vs. Swarmlord goes on the tabletop, I'll run the numbers.

EDIT: Swarmlord gets the charge, gives itself Preferred Enemy and forgets it's a psyker = 3.89 hits, 3 wounds, averages 2.25 unsaved wounds
Abaddon gets Counter-attack, strikes at same initiative with the Talon of Horus = 3 hits, 2.92 wounds, 1.46 unsaved. (Swarmlord: 3.54 | Abaddon: 1.75)
Next round, Swarmlord gives itself Preferred Enemy, still forgets psychic powers exist = 3.11 hits, 2.42 wounds, 1.81 unsaved.
Abaddon strikes back = 2.5 hits, 2.43 wounds, 1.22 unsaved. (Swarmlord: 2.32 | Abaddon: dead)

The Swarmlord will defeat Abaddon without psychic powers, with psychic powers Abaddon doesn't stand a chance.

And for the record, the Swarmlord is the oldest. It is as old as the Nid race itself. And that could be untold eons. Their race could make the Old Ones like toddlers for all we know.