For today's massive over reaction we go to... *spins wheel* Virginia Beach, VA!

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**Grey Templar**

Yeah, sure. Send him to a school for kids who actually have problems...

**-Shrike-**

Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, sure. Send him to a school for kids who actually have problems...

And then, when he gets into trouble there because it's full of people with problems, his original school can say "See? We told you he was messed up!".
Genius!

**Alfndrate**

I found the information that I was looking for about Renaissance Academy. Much like the Lakewood City Academy of my home town, RA is a school for those that have been kicked out of other schools, whether temporarily or permanently.
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/11/new-leader-fresh-start-virginia-beach-school
The line important to me:

However, Renaissance Academy's poor reputation isn't without reason. Students attend because they have been kicked out of their home schools or have fallen behind academically. A few weeks into the school year, a fight resulted in about a dozen arrests only hours after the principal resigned.

Let's send that little delinquent there indeed!

**-Shrike-**

Alfndrate wrote:
I found the information that I was looking for about Renaissance Academy. Much like the Lakewood City Academy of my home town, RA is a school for those that have been kicked out of other schools, whether temporarily or permanently.
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/11/new-leader-fresh-start-virginia-beach-school
The line important to me:

However, Renaissance Academy's poor reputation isn't without reason. Students attend because they have been kicked out of their home schools or have fallen behind academically. A few weeks into the school year, a fight resulted in about a dozen arrests only hours after the principal resigned.

Let's send that little delinquent there indeed!

What made me laugh:

A few weeks into the school year...the principal resigned.

Lines like that really fill you with confidence!

**Frazzled**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
That may have been allowing french people into texas frazzled. Arent they all banned from texas?

Pre 1800, French were welcome. They're one of our flags. They were cool then and had cool uniforms. This was before queso was invented.

Post 1800 Queso is invented. No French for you!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
"On their way to the bus stop"

Does that mean they are under the school watch from when they wake up till they get home?

After all, when they wake up the are on their way. Just going to get dressed and maybe eat while "on their way"

Evidently so. Brush those teeth Little Timmy OR WE WILL EXPEL YOU FOREVER!!!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverMK2 wrote:
Most of the schools I have been to have a rule which essentially says that if you are wearing your uniform you can be punished by the school for anything which is reported to them by "the public" even outside of school hours and outside of any school supplied transport.

As to this particular case... if only the children involved had real guns. That would have kept them safe from the school stepping on their rights!

Most schools in the US don't have uniforms.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alfndrate wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Did no one read that they are still going to be allowed to go to an educational facility?

No, I did read that they were going to be allowed at an alternative educational facility. Aidan was offered to attend Renaissance Academy, which looks like a fantastic school, certainly better than the gakhole that taught me.

Let's look at the school he could have been attending if his family hadn't chosen homeschooling.
Renaissance is home to the SECEP Re ED Program, a program that is designed for students from 5 to 21 with emotional disabilities that teaches them life skills in addition to the basic school curriculum (this sounds like your standard intervention specialist program). and the Tidewater Regional Alternative Educational Program that seeks to help students that have not met success in the traditional classroom. TRAEP contains a curriculum of English, Social Studies, math, and allows students to get their GED!

Also it seems that Renaissance has had some issues with personnel in the past:
http://wtkr.com/2013/03/08/beach-school-security-assistant-accused-of-inappropriate-contact-with-student/
http://www.wavy.com/news/local/va-beach/mom-says-secep-teacher-punched-child

It sounds like a Chino Gladiator Academy (Chino alternative school for the non LA types). Yep, he'll learn cool stuff like the proper way to hold a knife, and how to differentiate between good meth adn bad meth.

**Spacemanvic**

When you have people willing to be led by the nose, you get reactions and overreaching government like this.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Update: The boys have been expelled.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/25/awful-school-expels-kids-who-played-with-airsoft-gun-on-private-property/

Whew. Really nipped that one in the bud, if they'd gotten any further along they might have had FUN!

**hotsauceman1**

That article has it wrong. This isnt an update that is mis information.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also "Sources disagree over how close the boys were to the bus stop at the time of the incident." from that article.
No one knows how close they where

**Alfndrate**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Update: The boys have been expelled.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/25/awful-school-expels-kids-who-played-with-airsoft-gun-on-private-property/

Whew. Really nipped that one in the bud, if they'd gotten any further along they might have had FUN!

Yeah, it's a 1 year suspension with the option of going to Renaissance Academy, an alternative education school for kids who don't fit into a traditional school setting. Khalid and his family decided to take the alternative schooling route. Aidan's family decided to homeschool their kid.

**KalashnikovMarine**

All the kids interviewed have confirmed Khalid and his friend's side of the story. They never left the yard. That's all the actual evidence we're gonna get on this one.

**Alfndrate**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
All the kids interviewed have confirmed Khalid and his friend's side of the story. They never left the yard. That's all the actual evidence we're gonna get on this one.

That I don't disagree with, this entire time we've had more witnesses saying the kids were in their yard.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Alfndrate wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Update: The boys have been expelled.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/25/awful-school-expels-kids-who-played-with-airsoft-gun-on-private-property/

Whew. Really nipped that one in the bud, if they'd gotten any further along they might have had FUN!

Yeah, it's a 1 year suspension with the option of going to Renaissance Academy, an alternative education school for kids who don't fit into a traditional school setting. Khalid and his family decided to take the alternative schooling route. Aidan's family decided to homeschool their kid.

Just reading that article guys. And it's an "alternative school" for troubled kids. Probably not the best enviroment for a young man who wants to go to college no?

**hotsauceman1**

School Is what you make it. Besides he is in what? 7th grade? IT isnt going to be that bad for college.

**KalashnikovMarine**

You mean a disciplinary note for a FIREARMS related incident (which is how the school labled his "offense") isn't going to cause him problems in the future? Never mind being punished for something he absolutely shouldn't be being punished for, going to an "alternative school" isn't what you make of it. Those schools are just holding pens for kids the school system doesn't want to deal with, getting a decent education out of one is significantly less likely then getting your first gang tattoo at one.

**Grey Templar**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
School Is what you make it. Besides he is in what? 7th grade? IT isnt going to be that bad for college.

This being on his transcript will shut down the possibility of going to a good college, even if he maintains good grades. Which could be difficult at a school environment with actual problem kids.

If its between 2 kids who have identical grades, but one of them got sent to reform school they'll go with the kid who doesn't have a record.

**Alfndrate**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Update: The boys have been expelled.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/25/awful-school-expels-kids-who-played-with-airsoft-gun-on-private-property/

Whew. Really nipped that one in the bud, if they'd gotten any further along they might have had FUN!

Yeah, it's a 1 year suspension with the option of going to Renaissance Academy, an alternative education school for kids who don't fit into a traditional school setting. Khalid and his family decided to take the alternative schooling route. Aidan's family decided to homeschool their kid.

Just reading that article guys. And it's an "alternative school" for troubled kids. Probably not the best enviroment for a young man who wants to go to college no?

Yup, I know I made that point a page back? Idk, all I know is that it's a huge overreaction on the part of the school and these kids are suffering for it.

**hotsauceman1**

I personally Do not think it is an over reaction. If you read the articles that are not politically charged there is a lack of evidence that the kids where not near the bus stop when they where shooting the guns. All you have is other kids and one adult. And kids lie all the time to get them and their friends out of trouble

**Grey Templar**

You can't prove a negative. There's a lack of evidence that they were shooting near the bus stop. Which is what the school has to prove.

The kids and their parents don't have to prove they were not at the bus stop. And testimony that they weren't is adequate defense. Especially with other witnesses confirming that.

**hotsauceman1**

Whatever. I just hate how dakka automatically thinks schools are in the wrong when it comes to punishment. And I hate toy guns with a passion. The fetishization guns and treating of guns as toys I see in america is absolutely disgusting.
Schools do not do thing without purpose, it did not get that far into a disciplinary board without some form of evidence to the contrary.

**Spacemanvic**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I personally Do not think it is an over reaction. If you read the articles that are not politically charged there is a lack of evidence that the kids where not near the bus stop when they where shooting the guns. All you have is other kids and one adult. And kids lie all the time to get them and their friends out of trouble

It's a complete over reaction by a blindingly progressive school system and a worry wart neighbor. Its a TOY he was using on HIS property. Lawyers love people who lack real common sense (TOY, on HIS property). Its' this stupidity that leads to legalese on coffee cups "contents may be hot".

**Grey Templar**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Whatever. I just hate how dakka automatically thinks schools are in the wrong when it comes to punishment. And I hate toy guns with a passion. The fetishization guns and treating of guns as toys I see in america is absolutely disgusting.
Schools do not do thing without purpose, it did not get that far into a disciplinary board without some form of evidence to the contrary.

That is not a problem with toy guns, its a problem of parenting.

A toy gun is not a real gun, its no more dangerous to play with a toy gun that it is to play with a toy car. Both real cars and real guns are dangerous if used incorrectly. But nobody is flying off the handle and blaming teen driving on them playing with toy cars when they were younger.

And this is still a toy gun they were playing with. Airsoft "guns" are just toys. Nothing more.

**Spacemanvic**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Whatever. I just hate how dakka automatically thinks schools are in the wrong when it comes to punishment. And I hate toy guns with a passion. The fetishization guns and treating of guns as toys I see in america is absolutely disgusting.
Schools do not do thing without purpose, it did not get that far into a disciplinary board without some form of evidence to the contrary.

And I hate sherbert colored unicorns. The feminization of rainbow colored unicorns as avatars and toys I see in america (sic) is absolutely disgusting.

You should replace your avatar with this:

Schools do not do thing without purpose, it did not get that far into a disciplinary board without some form of evidence to the contrary.

Dumber things have been done by districts with less info. Like this billion dollar initiative:

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-lausd-ipads-20130925,0,906924.story

latimes.com
L.A. students breach school iPads' security
As students at Roosevelt High and other schools hack L.A. Unified-issued iPads for non-schoolwork, the district ponders solutions.

By Howard Blume

9:48 PM PDT, September 24, 2013
Advertisement

It took exactly one week for nearly 300 students at Roosevelt High School to hack through security so they could surf the Web on their new school-issued iPads, raising new concerns about a plan to distribute the devices to all students in the district.

Similar problems emerged at two other high schools as well, although the hacking was not as widespread.

Officials at the Los Angeles Unified School District have immediately halted home use of the Apple tablets until further notice.

The incident, which came to light Tuesday, prompted questions about overall preparations for the $1-billion tablet initiative.

The roll-out is scheduled to put an iPad in the hands of every student in the nation's second-largest school system within a year. Roosevelt was among the first to distribute them, starting a week ago.

Tablets were still being handed out Friday when administrators discovered the hacking already in progress, allowing students to reach such restricted sites as YouTube and Facebook, among others.

"Outside of the district's network ... a user is free to download content and applications and browse the Internet without restriction," two senior administrators said in a memo to the board of education and L.A. schools Supt. John Deasy. "As student safety is of paramount concern, breach of the … system must not occur."

Other schools reporting the problem were Westchester High and the Valley Academy of Arts and Sciences in Granada Hills.

Students began to tinker with the security lock on the tablets because "they took them home and they can't do anything with them," said Roosevelt senior Alfredo Garcia.

Roosevelt students matter-of-factly explained their ingenuity Tuesday outside school. The trick, they said, was to delete their personal profile information. With the profile deleted, a student was free to surf.

Soon they were sending tweets, socializing on Facebook and streaming music through Pandora, they said.

L.A. Unified School District Police Chief Steven Zipperman suggested, in a confidential memo to senior staff obtained by The Times, that the district might want to delay distribution of the devices.

"I'm guessing this is just a sample of what will likely occur on other campuses once this hits Twitter, YouTube or other social media sites explaining to our students how to breach or compromise the security of these devices," Zipperman wrote. "I want to prevent a 'runaway train' scenario when we may have the ability to put a hold on the roll-out."

By Tuesday afternoon, L.A. Unified officials were weighing potential solutions. One would limit the tablets, when taken home, to curricular materials from the Pearson corporation, which are already installed. All other applications and Internet access would be turned off, according to a district "action plan."

A second approach would be to buy and install a new security application.

Apple's just-released new operating system might help, but not the current iteration, according to the district. A fix from Apple is not likely to be available before late December.

The devices should work normally at school, although even that has been problematic. Teacher Robert Penuela said his use of the tablets has been limited because he can't get them to work for all students at once.

Roosevelt freshman Alan Munoz said that, so far, he was using his iPad only during free time.

The excitement of receiving the device quickly wore off for senior Kimberly Ramirez when she realized it was for schoolwork only.

"You can't do nothing with them," she said. "You just carry them around."

**djones520**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Whatever. I just hate how dakka automatically thinks schools are in the wrong when it comes to punishment. And I hate toy guns with a passion. The fetishization guns and treating of guns as toys I see in america is absolutely disgusting.
Schools do not do thing without purpose, it did not get that far into a disciplinary board without some form of evidence to the contrary.

Schools don't do things without purpose? Well... I guess the hours in 4th grade spent watching Barney was so the teachers could get drinking breaks in...

**hotsauceman1**

im on my phne so excuse my grammar. Guns are tools of killing. by giving kids toy guns you are putting into their mind that gunsare toys. This is what leads to kids getting real guns in their hands(from various places) and having kids shoot their hands friends thinking of the gun as toys. i am not against guns. i am against guns their usage as toys for young kids

**djones520**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
im on my phne so excuse my grammar. Guns are tools of killing. by giving kids toy guns you are putting into their mind that gunsare toys. This is what leads to kids getting real guns in their hands(from various places) and having kids shoot their hands friends thinking of the gun as toys. i am not against guns. i am against guns their usage as toys for young kids

No... that is not it. That is the parents failing to teach their children the difference. Ask my 5 year old about real and toy guns, he'll tell you.

**Alfndrate**

hotsauceman1 wrote:I personally Do not think it is an over reaction. If you read the articles that are not politically charged there is a lack of evidence that the kids where not near the bus stop when they where shooting the guns. All you have is other kids and one adult. And kids lie all the time to get them and their friends out of trouble

Kids lie all the time, but kids will fething rat on their friends to keep themselves out of trouble. If Kid A's mom said, don't play with Khalid and Aidan and their airsoft guns, and Kid A plays with Khalid and Aidan and gets shot by the gun, he will rat on Khalid and Aidan faster than you can say delinquent little gak.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Whatever. I just hate how dakka automatically thinks schools are in the wrong when it comes to punishment. And I hate toy guns with a passion. The fetishization guns and treating of guns as toys I see in america is absolutely disgusting.
Schools do not do thing without purpose, it did not get that far into a disciplinary board without some form of evidence to the contrary.

In 90% of the cases, zero tolerance policies don't actually solve a problem. They create a world in which people on both sides of an issue are punished. hotsauce, you've been called names in school before right? What if you were physically assaulted in school and defended yourself? You'd be in just as much trouble as the person beating you. In those cases the only way to stay out of trouble is to put your hands in your pockets and take the beating, but then you just became the doormat for the guy doing the beating. zero tolerance policies are to prevent instances where the school can be called into liablity and be sued. The school has actually fethed up majorly in this instance. If a student is bullied between home and school and the school doesn't hold the bully responsible the parents of the bullied student can use this case as an opening to show that the school has jurisdiction over the time from when the student leaves his or her house at the beginning of the day and the moment they reach home at the end of the day.

And schools say they don't do things without purpose, but sometimes these things don't serve a puprose and instead inadvertently serve to undermine a student's ability to learn. A simple premise of these purposes is a school's uniform policy. When schools that don't have uniforms have a dress code they have to do a few things to make sure that students follow these policies. What happens when a kid breaks dress code? They get removed from school over a t-shirt, a hoodie, etc... I had a friend in high school that was a huge Marilyn Manson fan and wore a shirt that said, "Babble babble bitch bitch/Rebel rebel party party/Sex sex sex and don't/forget the "violence"" He was sent home to get a new shirt because of the language of the shirt. I had another friend that was sent home for wearing a My Chemical Romance hoodie that featured handguns on them. It was pointed out that the school's mascot had handguns and thus they couldn't enforce that without sending people home for wearing school colors. My junior year our mascot lost his handguns and just became a big gay purple cowboy instead of a big gay purple cowboy with handguns.

Zero tolerance policies take any sort of adjudication out of the schools hands and simply make broad, sweeping judgements in order to 'preserve the academic environment' and to cover their asses.

Tell me this hotsauce, do you honestly believe Khalid is better off going to a school known for troubled students for a year?

Edit: 13 year olds are not young kids

**Spacemanvic**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
im on my phne so excuse my grammar. Guns are tools of killing. by giving kids toy guns you are putting into their mind that gunsare toys. This is what leads to kids getting real guns in their hands(from various places) and having kids shoot their hands friends thinking of the gun as toys. i am not against guns. i am against guns their usage as toys for young kids

That is pure ignorance. Utilizing programs like the Eddie Eagle program, children are taught to respect firearms. This disarms the fear-mongering mysticism people like you attach to firearms. By removing the mystery of firearms, children are less apt to let their curiosity get the better of them. They are taught that firearms are dangerous and not to be toyed with. Even when playing with Nerf guns, my children are taught to not point them at others (unless that person is playing with them), not to discharge them irresponsibly etc. When we go shooting as a family, it begins with a 40 minute lecture by me on proper gun handling before they are even allowed to touch a round. And this is enforced every time. I actually have more issue with my nieces and nephews whose parents sound like you. Those kids rush and try to touch the firearms and I have to slow them down. It's simple, remove the forbidden fruit aspect of it, and people are less prone to crave it.

**daedalus**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
im on my phne so excuse my grammar. Guns are tools of killing. by giving kids toy guns you are putting into their mind that gunsare toys. This is what leads to kids getting real guns in their hands(from various places) and having kids shoot their hands friends thinking of the gun as toys. i am not against guns. i am against guns their usage as toys for young kids

I strongly disagree.

You can't disregard the statements of the kids simply because "they are kids". Especially the ones who were getting shot themselves. I disagree that a school system, it's machinations dictated by human beings, can somehow be above and beyond doing either, the wrong thing, or something extraneous. Could you please express what leads you to believe otherwise?

**hotsauceman1**

Spacemanvic wrote:
Snip

How is that stupid? Kids need to learn to use digital devices like Ipads. We are living in a world where these are becoming more common and needed. Kid needs to learn how to do it. Yes there need to be bugs ironed out but that idea isnt stupid.
And Daedalus, No need for personal insults, we are all adults here respect other peoples opinions

**daedalus**

hotsauceman1 wrote:

And Daedalus, No need for personal insults, we are all adults here respect other peoples opinions

Fair. Edited for opinion's respectfulness-sake