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2013/10/11 04:42:14
Subject: Re:US adults are dumber than the average human
Alfndrate wrote: With that being said, what makes English a difficult language to learn is the nuances, turn of phrases, and idioms we have. When I say, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" to someone that doesn't know what I'm talking about I get blank stares because they're caught up on the concept of birds in hands (whether I have one or not).
I'm pretty sure there's idioms in every single language.
There are indeed idioms in every language, but English is a language that relies heavily on the turn of phrases, idioms, and heavy contextual clues to get it's point across. Other languages tend to put endings on verbs and nouns which changes them, we don't have this in English (beyond changing tense and whether it's singular or plural) we also have words that are spelled the same that mean different things (like refuse and refuse, or wound and wound).
Lolno. English is pretty darn easy on the whole scale of things and you are hardly the only ones who use stupid sayings.
That's because you speak a Germanic language, which is similar to English in 1) how it's taught and 2) how it's structured syntactically. Give English to a non-Germanic language speaker and it becomes more difficult.
I don't know, I feel rather competent in English, and it certainly wasn't half as hard as Spanish with its crazy insane tenses. And while I'm okay with English, learning German is just such a pain.
There are a lot of false friends in French too. I guess I don't remember any in Spanish, but then again, I don't remember much of my Spanish anyway...
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
2013/10/11 04:55:59
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
No one has said African either and there must be reason that much of that continent does so poorly, it can't be that all the countries there have crappy cultures which is what you're suggesting.
Might have something to do with a couple centuries of colonization, but idk.
I'd also suggest you either learn, or relearn statistics as they relate to sociology. Just because a group is identified by their race doesn't mean race itself is the reason they do worse academically. 'Blacks' can easily be replaced with 'urban poor' 'historically disenfranchised' 'culturally marginalized' or any other number of terms. The down side is that every single one leads to people confusing correlation with causation (which is exactly what Ahtman was getting at in the first place).
"Drive trucks to deliver goods" was one that immediately popped into mind that robots cannot yet do.
That technology exists now. There was a Top Gear episode where they raced a remote controlled US Army truck over rough terrain. It was remote controlled but also had the ability to drive itself. Similar technology also exists in drones and smart weapons.
It's not that much of a stretch to have an automated loader to drop off goods. What they can't do is enter the premises and carry the goods to a more specific location like an office yet. You'd need the office lackey to go fetch the goods from the roadside/cargo bay.
Cars that drive themselves are already being used. Heathrow airport in London has had them for a couple of years now for business passengers between the carpark and terminal.
2013/10/11 04:58:18
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
SickSix wrote: And you know what I find ironic? Liberals have been running the education system for years, and are only getting a tighter grip, and for some reason things aren't getting better....
Yes, because conservative meddling in educationl has never turned out badly before.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
2013/10/11 05:10:13
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
Ah! One thing that was hard nailing down in English was the intonations. You have really weird rules about where accents are put in a sentence and in a word, and the whole sentence will seem really weird if you misplace them, becoming almost laughable.
In French, we rarely ever accent anything but the last syllable of rythmic groups built around where breathing falls naturally, with the exception of the last syllable of a sentence which we never accent to indicate the end (and in a conversation, the occasion for the other to responde). We also have a couple other intonation schemes, to mark a question for example, but they are really instinctual.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/11 05:14:53
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
2013/10/11 11:46:21
Subject: Re:US adults are dumber than the average human
Frazzled wrote: No after saving your country twice, its English American.
After you fled from England, nearly died from disease, nearly wiped out your native population and bastardised our language, it's American English
Whats this you stuff? I'm a Texan. We're full of Germans and Czechs and Mexicans and Chinese and Indians.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/11 12:44:55
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/10/11 15:14:10
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
We know ethnicity isn't tied to intelligence, so the question becomes why different groups do differently on such tests, and separating the question from the answer is problematic, and usually proffered by groups most wouldn't want to be associated with.
Only groups like far right ones discuss them publically is why, yet people keep doing these studies and coming up with data suggesting differences based on race and governments keep supporting laws and programmes that help people of specific racial backgrounds.
If race doesn't matter or even exist, then why even do studies that show group X is doing poorly compared to group Y when the only real criteria for defining those groups is physical appearance?
To the extent that IQ tests are a valid measure of anything, the studies, when corrected for cultural factors, show no genetic component in intelligence in different so-called "races".
SickSix wrote: And you know what I find ironic? Liberals have been running the education system for years, and are only getting a tighter grip, and for some reason things aren't getting better....
Yes, because conservative meddling in educationl has never turned out badly before.
Yeah, because liberals were really responsible for No Child Left Behind, the worst program school districts have ever seen. Yeah...good call there. A conservative idiot came up with that gem.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2013/10/11 19:06:30
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
SickSix wrote: And you know what I find ironic? Liberals have been running the education system for years, and are only getting a tighter grip, and for some reason things aren't getting better....
Yes, because conservative meddling in educationl has never turned out badly before.
Yeah, because liberals were really responsible for No Child Left Behind, the worst program school districts have ever seen. Yeah...good call there. A conservative idiot came up with that gem.
While I completely agree with the "worst program school districts have ever seen" the bill was proposed by Bush, but it was co-authored by 2 Republicans and 2 Democrats. and was passed in both the House and Senate almost unanimously (about 90% For in both houses of Congress), a conservative idiot may have come up with that gem, but it was both sides of the aisle that fethed up that program.
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
2013/10/11 20:00:33
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/11 20:08:27
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/10/11 21:10:51
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
No one has said African either and there must be reason that much of that continent does so poorly, it can't be that all the countries there have crappy cultures which is what you're suggesting.
Why isn't that an acceptable explanation? After all many African nations, particularly those in Sub-Saharan Africa, have comparable historical profiles; especially regarding colonialism, poverty, and conflict.
If you don't think it's biological, then why does the same problem exist amongst the same type of people when so much has been spent to improve the situation?
Well, for one thing, simply spending a lot of money to fix a particular problem has very little bearing on whether or not said problem will be fixed. For example, while the US educational system as a whole is a complete mess, the programs designed to help people from impoverished backgrounds are uniquely terrible.
Another thing to consider is that parents, regardless of background, often want their children to have lives similar to their own. So you see parents with professional degrees pushing their kids towards professional degrees, parents who work manual labor pushing their kids towards manual labor, and parents who exploit the welfare system pushing their kids to do the same.
Is there a way to combat this? Possibly, but it is very difficult given that parents are almost always the most significant influence on their children.
I really wish state schools would do away with that major. If you want a liberal arts degree, then you should go to a liberal arts college. At least then you can major in something less generic.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/11 21:14:19
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2013/10/11 21:44:53
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
No one has said African either and there must be reason that much of that continent does so poorly, it can't be that all the countries there have crappy cultures which is what you're suggesting.
Might have something to do with a couple centuries of colonization, but idk.
You really don't which is why you're guessing, but nice try and keep it up.
I'd also suggest you either learn, or relearn statistics as they relate to sociology.
Save your rancour for those that published these findings, if you have issue with how groups are portrayed take it up with them. They don't talk about urban poor because poor urban blacks fare poorly when compared to poor urban whites, hispanics, asians etc. They come last everytime except in rates of criminal activity. And here's the thing, by even categorizing people by race then you're always going to have one group doing better than another. You could use BMI instead and suddenly you'd have either the fat or the skinny group doing better than the other. Why do some sports team dominate while others can barely get a competent team together? We're not all the same, either physically or mentally.
2013/10/11 21:57:03
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
No one has said African either and there must be reason that much of that continent does so poorly, it can't be that all the countries there have crappy cultures which is what you're suggesting.
Why isn't that an acceptable explanation? After all many African nations, particularly those in Sub-Saharan Africa, have comparable historical profiles; especially regarding colonialism, poverty, and conflict.
The problem with that is that those places were in constant states of tribal warfare before colonialism. The slave trade benefitted from the number of tribes prepared to capture their enemies and sell them. Colonialism was a period of relative stability in the area which introduced modern infrastructure including schools and hospitals and roads. Liberia which saw no colonisation but got developement support from the USA is no better than it's neighbours.
You're also contradicting yourself. You claim that the local cultures are crappy and need replacing, yet that is what colonialism was doing. It was lifting a tribal, semi nomadic group of peoples into the modern world, the process was never finished.
the programs designed to help people from impoverished backgrounds are uniquely terrible.
Another thing to consider is that parents, [...]parents who exploit the welfare system pushing their kids to do the same.
Is there a way to combat this? Possibly, but it is very difficult given that parents are almost always the most significant influence on their children.
The answer would be to reduce welfare and force people to do those unskilled jobs that currently are requiring large amounts of foreign workers to come and do. We have the same problem in my country and we're getting into the 5th or 6th generation of unemployed in some families - they have no work ethic to pass down because none of them have worked - they will have to be forced into work at some point because their numbers are growing.
2013/10/11 22:02:24
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
You really don't which is why you're guessing, but nice try and keep it up.
See sentence 1 of my response below.
cadbren wrote: Save your rancour for those that published these findings, if you have issue with how groups are portrayed take it up with them.
And here I thought Americans sucked at critical reading...
Did you even read my post?I have nothing against how groups are portrayed in sociological study per se. Rather, I appreciate how hard categorizing them really is. I'll save my rancour for those who assume conclusions based solely on the word a study uses identifies a group of people even when studies by and large suggest everything but race as the actual cause of the problems they examine.
If you really think Africa lags behind the rest of the world because its full of black people, and not because of 500 years of exploitation by foreign powers, constant internal conflict, and being relatively isolated for most of history by a continent spanning desert preventing cultural diffusion (all these things resulting naturally in less cultural development), I'll save my rancour. Pity is a better emotion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/11 22:09:41
I blame...everyone else but me! *runs away to read it in shame*
Ok I'm reading it now, where is all this sub-saharan stuff coming from? Because the study seems to focus on
Spoiler:
Japan Finland Netherlands Sweden Australia Norway Estonia Slovak Republic Flanders (Belgium) Canada Czech Republic Average Denmark Korea England/N. Ireland (UK) Germany United States Austria Poland Ireland France Cyprus1 Spain Italy
None of them being sub-saharan nations. I wanted to see what studies cadbren is referencing I enjoy stats...I know, I'm sick in the head, but I find them interesting and I want to see...and then point out just where he is interpreting it incorrectly
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/11 22:27:11
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2013/10/11 22:50:45
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
Liberia which saw no colonisation but got developement support from the USA is no better than it's neighbours.
Well, aside from all of the former slaves that several American groups sent over for the purpose of establishing colonies of freed, American slaves. Colonies which, after unification, denied citizenship to native "Liberians".
You're also contradicting yourself. You claim that the local cultures are crappy and need replacing, yet that is what colonialism was doing. It was lifting a tribal, semi nomadic group of peoples into the modern world, the process was never finished.
I never said that they needed to be replaced. Please do not attempt to speak for me.
At any rate, I think you're being a bit generous regarding the purpose of colonialism. Colonialism was never about altering the culture of particular place, rather its purpose was to secure a profit for the colonizing nation. This invariably altered the culture of the area subject to colonization, but whether or not that was for better or worse is difficult to say.
The answer would be to reduce welfare and force people to do those unskilled jobs that currently are requiring large amounts of foreign workers to come and do. We have the same problem in my country and we're getting into the 5th or 6th generation of unemployed in some families - they have no work ethic to pass down because none of them have worked - they will have to be forced into work at some point because their numbers are growing.
I never indicated that a dependent class was a problem. Again, please do not speak for me.
The issue I was addressing was familial pressure as regards the relative achievement of selected groups, and how that serves as a point against the notion of variation in intelligence due to biology.
cadbren wrote: And here's the thing, by even categorizing people by race then you're always going to have one group doing better than another. You could use BMI instead and suddenly you'd have either the fat or the skinny group doing better than the other.
Most likely, yes.
Thankfully we have tests of statistical significance to determine whether or not such variation is important.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/11 22:52:28
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2013/10/11 23:28:13
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
Ok I'm reading it now, where is all this sub-saharan stuff coming from? Because the study seems to focus on
Spoiler:
Japan
Finland
Netherlands
Sweden
Australia
Norway
Estonia
Slovak Republic
Flanders (Belgium)
Canada
Czech Republic
Average
Denmark
Korea
England/N. Ireland (UK)
Germany
United States
Austria
Poland
Ireland
France
Cyprus1
Spain
Italy
None of them being sub-saharan nations. I wanted to see what studies cadbren is referencing I enjoy stats...I know, I'm sick in the head, but I find them interesting and I want to see...and then point out just where he is interpreting it incorrectly
I wouldn't waste too much time trying to find it. Rather than discuss the study, people are much satisfied inventing their own.
Ok I'm reading it now, where is all this sub-saharan stuff coming from? Because the study seems to focus on
Spoiler:
Japan
Finland
Netherlands
Sweden
Australia
Norway
Estonia
Slovak Republic
Flanders (Belgium)
Canada
Czech Republic
Average
Denmark
Korea
England/N. Ireland (UK)
Germany
United States
Austria
Poland
Ireland
France
Cyprus1
Spain
Italy
None of them being sub-saharan nations. I wanted to see what studies cadbren is referencing I enjoy stats...I know, I'm sick in the head, but I find them interesting and I want to see...and then point out just where he is interpreting it incorrectly
I wouldn't waste too much time trying to find it. Rather than discuss the study, people are much satisfied inventing their own.
Oh I'm not trying to find it, cadbren should provide it if he wants his argument to have any weight. The 'several studies support' while providing no references is how a (failing) first year would word their work.
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2013/10/12 04:44:14
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
Now, This is an honest to goodness question. No deception here.
If american schools and american colleges are SO BAD then why do International students from india, arabia, china, korean and japan come here for book learnin?
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2013/10/12 04:54:25
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
hotsauceman1 wrote: Now, This is an honest to goodness question. No deception here.
If american schools and american colleges are SO BAD then why do International students from india, arabia, china, korean and japan come here for book learnin?
I imagine it's mostly elementary and high school level education is of lower quality in comparison to many other developed nations although I maybe wrong, plus even if the US is lagging behind education wise it's still probably much better than most if not all developing countries education.
2013/10/12 05:08:01
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
hotsauceman1 wrote: Now, This is an honest to goodness question. No deception here.
If american schools and american colleges are SO BAD then why do International students from india, arabia, china, korean and japan come here for book learnin?
Not conflating our Universities/Colleges with our primary schools, would be one way to start answering that question. We have excellent post-secondary educational opportunities and options.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/10/12 05:37:14
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
You really don't which is why you're guessing, but nice try and keep it up.
See sentence 1 of my response below.
cadbren wrote: Save your rancour for those that published these findings, if you have issue with how groups are portrayed take it up with them.
And here I thought Americans sucked at critical reading...
Thank you for explaining the problem, I agree with you.
If you really think Africa lags behind the rest of the world because its full of black people, and not because of 500 years of exploitation by foreign powers, constant internal conflict, and being relatively isolated for most of history by a continent spanning desert preventing cultural diffusion
500 years? Slaves have been taken from south of the Sahara since ancient Egypt first records the practice.
While the desert acts as a barrier to mass movement, the caravans across it ensure connectivity. Salt, spices and other materials were major commodities. Certainly there was enough exchange for musical instruments like the sitar to be introduced to the local population where it developed into the early banjo and was taken to the USA by the slaves.
Oh I'm not trying to find it, cadbren should provide it if he wants his argument to have any weight. The 'several studies support' while providing no references is how a (failing) first year would word their work.
You can choose to consider what I have to say as made up if you like. I'm not invested in this enough to want to bother looking up the relevent papers for you to dismiss them as unrepresentative, taken out of context or whatever other prepared explanation you might have. I don't get credits for this, this is entertainment for me as it is for you. I believe what I do and you believe what you do, only time will show who has a better handle on things.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/12 05:49:12
2013/10/12 05:49:37
Subject: US adults are dumber than the average human
Oh I'm not trying to find it, cadbren should provide it if he wants his argument to have any weight. The 'several studies support' while providing no references is how a (failing) first year would word their work.
You can choose to consider what I have to say as made up if you like. I'm not invested in this enough to want to bother looking up the relevent papers for you to dismiss them as unrepresentative, taken out of context or whatever other prepared explanation you might have. I don't get credits for this, this is entertainment for me as it is for you. I believe what I do and you believe what you do, only time will show who has a better handle on things.
So your response to someone asking for your proof is 'I don't have any'
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
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