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 Grey Templar wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wehrkind wrote:
I agree only Circle should have pathfinder. And damnit, someone teach my Feral Warpwolf how to run through the woods without tripping!

No, not you Argus. Get back under the porch...

Somehow the lumbering rocks can hop and skip merrily through the woods but the wolves and goats are left fumbling, unless you give a wolf a giant sword

I like to imagine the wolds just smashing through things, while the Feral delicately tip toes through the tulips, unwilling to damage a single flower for those mother f**kers.

Then he has a Coke.

Actually, I should say the Circle forums on PPs site are really great. Lots of good guides and some active members who really help out with things. A little bit of group think centered around two of the world class players that post a lot, but then again, 2-3 world class players post a lot which is a pretty great resource.

 Wehrkind wrote:
I agree only Circle should have pathfinder. And damnit, someone teach my Feral Warpwolf how to run through the woods without tripping!

No, not you Argus. Get back under the porch...

Actually i was thinking the other way...no race should have all pathfinder and there shouldnt be anything outside a feat that enables for the whole army.

Like i said i like terrain heavy boards because it looks more cinematic-like, but i play trolls lol. Im slow as it is and if i have to chase some archers around 3 forests i will never even get a chance because i dont have pathfinder, and their entire army does lol

I was thinking they should be some kind of Warcaster who is weaker than the others but gives lots of Warjack points.

 sing your life wrote:
I was thinking they should be some kind of Warcaster who is weaker than the others but gives lots of Warjack points.

What exactly do you mean (see what I mean about making posts that consist of more than one sentence)? Physically weaker? As you're basically just describing Nemo, Sevvy or Denny (whose theme force for her Prime version gives a free bonejack, effectively giving her up to 10 warjack points if you use said advantage to take a Defiler or a Ripjaw.) Or is it someone with practically zero armour? As that caster already exists in pMorghoul, who already has the highest warnoun points in the game with 7(a number only shared by pHoarluk IIRC.).

If you a make a Warcaster/lock that is perceived as weaker than others no-one will take them. We're looking at you Zerkova and Calaban!

The trouble with more jack points is that it really just turns into "more unit points" without a ton of either upkeep buffs for jacks or built in abilities to do the same. Most casters can't really run multiple jacks without that, as even Focus 8 leaves you pretty limited. It isn't so much the price as the Focus resources that hold you back.
CoC seems like they might solve some of the 'why more than 1 jack?" problem pretty well, as well as the new journeymen coming out pretty soon.

I'd change Page 5. Either remove it entirely or completely rework it from the ground up.

Zond wrote:
I'd change Page 5. Either remove it entirely or completely rework it from the ground up.

Page 5 was changed. As people were using it as an excuse.

So I've been told. I would still change it.

Ok, another random completely gratuitous one for Convergence: give Eradicators combo strike. 2 mat 9 pow 12s are cool... one mat 9 pow 24....

Ok, that's too ridiculous. Some ability to only make one attack at a higher p+s than 12 would be nice.

I am not sure if anyone mention it yet, but I guess I should present it in a Netorare Warmahordes player doujin told in three parts:....

Kossite Woodsman-kun was bought by Mikael when he started to get into Warmachine when it was on the cusp of MK1 to MK2. Mikael played them with a passion since he liked the look of Kossite Woodsman-kun and what he offered although his statline was average to poor, and had what he had to use due to a lack of money when he began. Once Mikael had started to get more into Warmachine and have more access to funds, Kossite Woodsman-kun was started to be used less and less. Kossite Woodsman-kun wanted to deny it at first, but deep down inside, Kossite Woodsman-kun knew that his stats were inferior to all the others choices as Kossite Woodsman-kun saw Mikael take and use Winter Guard Infantry-kun over and over again to his FLGS.

Not told in three parts, but you get the point...

 dementedwombat wrote:
Ok, another random completely gratuitous one for Convergence: give Eradicators combo strike. 2 mat 9 pow 12s are cool... one mat 9 pow 24....

Ok, that's too ridiculous. Some ability to only make one attack at a higher p+s than 12 would be nice.

An Eradicator's combo strike attack if they had one would be POW16 BTW.

Combo strike is the POW of the damage roll is equal to the model's strength plus twice the power of the weapon. So 8+4+4=16

Ahhh...I knew 24 sounded bonkers. Thanks for clearing that up. The things that happen when you read rules really quickly that you're not familiar with.

 Polonius wrote:
I'd fix tough in some way to make it less streaky. right now, a hot or cold streak of 5+ rolls can literally make or break a game, in a way that few other rolls really can.

My fix would be to make tough a 4+, but not allow knocked down models to make tough checks at all.

Any Menoth unit with Rhupert and the Covenant would so break this combo. Same with eCaine and Boomhowlers. Or IFP with the IF Kovnik and eIrusk

I don't really understand the Page 5 hate. It seems to me it sets the tone of the game, one of specifically "Build the most clever, devious list you can. That's part of the game.' To my mind it really avoids the issue GW games have with the "Is it a friendly, just pushing models around for the lols game vs. Is it a serious, mental exercise to win game" dichotomy.

It doesn't seem like PP players grumble about WAAC people ruining it for fluff bunnies like GW players.

Sining wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I'd fix tough in some way to make it less streaky. right now, a hot or cold streak of 5+ rolls can literally make or break a game, in a way that few other rolls really can.

My fix would be to make tough a 4+, but not allow knocked down models to make tough checks at all.

Any Menoth unit with Rhupert and the Covenant would so break this combo. Same with eCaine and Boomhowlers. Or IFP with the IF Kovnik and eIrusk

To make it less streaky you could just make it an ability check with two dice.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
I am not sure if anyone mention it yet, but I guess I should present it in a Netorare Warmahordes player doujin told in three parts:....

Kossite Woodsman-kun was bought by Mikael when he started to get into Warmachine when it was on the cusp of MK1 to MK2. Mikael played them with a passion since he liked the look of Kossite Woodsman-kun and what he offered although his statline was average to poor, and had what he had to use due to a lack of money when he began. Once Mikael had started to get more into Warmachine and have more access to funds, Kossite Woodsman-kun was started to be used less and less. Kossite Woodsman-kun wanted to deny it at first, but deep down inside, Kossite Woodsman-kun knew that his stats were inferior to all the others choices as Kossite Woodsman-kun saw Mikael take and use Winter Guard Infantry-kun over and over again to his FLGS.

Not told in three parts, but you get the point...

until kossite woodsman-kun met eVald, and kossites become monsters

I'd fix tough in some way to make it less streaky. right now, a hot or cold streak of 5+ rolls can literally make or break a game, in a way that few other rolls really can.

My fix would be to make tough a 4+, but not allow knocked down models to make tough checks at all.

My Kriel Warriors would like a word with you. A word of praise for giving them such a crazy buff.

Btw they cant be knocked down and have tough lol

To be fair, for a system based on such a 2d6 bellcurve, having tough only trigger on a single d6 roll is kind of strange.

Actually, needing to roll 9+ on 2d6 is almost the same probability (28 vs 33)...and now I look at it going from "4 plus supertough" to "highest 2 of 3d6 supertough" goes to a 52.3% chance!

Get on this PP.

I think I'd change the way focus works to encourage taking more jacks. Maybe something like 1 free point a turn, with extra's able to be allocated from the caster (up to the max of 3 still). I would then adjust power booster like abilities to be instead of no focus, no focus allocated from the caster.

 derek wrote:
I think I'd change the way focus works to encourage taking more jacks. Maybe something like 1 free point a turn, with extra's able to be allocated from the caster (up to the max of 3 still). I would then adjust power booster like abilities to be instead of no focus, no focus allocated from the caster.

I have to disagree with this. the whole point of focus is "resource management", and what you're doing is essentially not this, by bolting on part of the fury mechanic onto focus in a mistaken belief that this will make people take more jacks, whilst also not applying any of the nagatives of fury. having your cake and eating it, essentially. and it will completely throw balance out the window. in this example, i'll continue taking one jack, which generates its free focus, and will continue my infantry heavy game, with no penalty, but now my caster is automatically sitting on +1ARM. it wont make people field moar jacks. all it does is give warmachine another needless leg up, and skew the games balance (and lets face it, whilst fury is better than focus (although it has more hoops to jump through), we dont balance focus against fury, we balance warmachine against hordes. and its solid.

I'll be honest. I generally like the state of play with warmachine being a more combined arms factions with some jacks, backed up by lots of infantry (backed up by the fluff; jacks are rare) than just being about lots of jacks, for various reasons.

However, i can appreciate the desire for more-jack armies to be more viable. the answer to this, however is not 'more focus', or making jacks work like beasts (go play hordes if you want that). Look at the factions that already can play jack heavy.

Cygnar makes excellent use of jack marshals, Convergence has its focustransfer mechanic, Protectorate and Retribution has excellent anciliarry support pieces. here is where you look. Dont mess up the fury/focus system - its fine as is. But if you want to run more jacks more effectively, you need to realise its not necessarily just 'moar focus' that will doit. its those anciliarry abilities from the choir, from arcanists and from vassals that allow their respective factions to buff their jacks, and run more jack heavy.

So, to summarise, if you want a more-jack approach to be viable, you need to follow a two-pronged approach:
(1) bringing in more ancilliary pieces like arcanists with a variety of boosts for faction jacks. these guys can then fall into a role of 'battlegroup support' and can increase the functionality of a warcasters battlegroup, whilst paying an appropriate price.
(2) increasing the effectiveness of jack marshalls with jack-applied tactics/orders like the skorne tyrant commander does for his infantry. this will allow a more effective use of jacks outside of a battlegroup.

I thinking of having solo models able to swap places with an enemy model if they kill it.

I'd want to see Trencher units tweaked- they are my favorite part of Cygnar, but they are severely underused (last tournament I went to had a single squad of 6, with 4 or 5 Cygnar players running around).

Maybe make the Infantry cost less than anything they will be screening (say, 5/9 or even 5/8). As is, they are a situational screening unit which costs as much as anything they will be guarding, and is really easily negated.

Give Commandos Quick work and/or CRA (seriously, you guys somehow forgot basic training?). Means they could actually be useful while being stealthy, and would get a cool "shank first dude, frag his buddy" ability.

 sing your life wrote:
I thinking of having solo models able to swap places with an enemy model if they kill it.

You do realise how stupidly good that would be with something with Beserk like Fenris?

We have enough of those shenanigans with Kromac and Warpwolf Stalkers....

I'd make the UK prices of plastic models match their US RRPs like the metal models do. Also I'd make Cephalax actual ally models, i.e. give them a mercenary contract. Finally I'd fix and/or release a new theme list for Fiona the Black.

Ok that's three things, but they're the things on my mind at the moment.

IMHO, Man O Wars baddly need a UA or Solo to fix their many shortcomings. They are the first, and worst medium based infantry. If speed isn't changed (and I suspect it won't be), damage output needs to be increased.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
I thinking of having solo models able to swap places with an enemy model if they kill it.

You do realise how stupidly good that would be with something with Beserk like Fenris?

It's would be kind of your fault if you let Fenris into combat, mind.

allow pre-measuring

Soulgrinderxxx wrote:
allow pre-measuring

That'd take a lot of the skill out of the game, honestly. I'm not a big fan of them putting it into other games.

Also, there is some premeasuring already.

I'm pretty happy with most things, but I do think there are a few things that could be changed.

1) Terrain rules. Make more terrain varieties in the core rules (or release more terrain rules in the expansions), and even up some of the terrain rules we have now. Shallow Water is just crap for warmachine armies, and the furnace extinguished thing might be fluffy, but it's annoyingly niggledy when just having the jack go "Stationary" would do, and we wouldn't have to look up a rule book each time to remember how it works.

2) On that note, Jacks going Inert when their warcaster dies. Not huge in most games, but in two player games it means jack heavy lists are crap. Have it so they just go stationary for a turn at most, and other faction war-casters can just spend a focus point to bring them into their battle group.

3) Clean up Prime/Primal for easier reading. Prime is very good for having very clear and exact rules, but its a pain for actually learning with (quick start rules do help with that, of course), and there are often important rules or crevats buried in text that people don't notice that could be better presented. So yeah, a better layout for beginners would be great.

4) Finally, in order to help sportsmanship a bit, have a marker on all the cards if a model has any movement buffs/shenannigans. In fact, one symbol for having a self movement buff (including shenannigans like Side Step, or anything that can increase total threat range), and another for having a buff that can affect others. That would help with sportsmanship in terms of noting and remembering which models have speed buffs/abilities when asking about threat range (which is a dicey sportsmanship issue in some circles).

 dementedwombat wrote:
To be fair, for a system based on such a 2d6 bellcurve, having tough only trigger on a single d6 roll is kind of strange.

Actually, needing to roll 9+ on 2d6 is almost the same probability (28 vs 33)...and now I look at it going from "4 plus supertough" to "highest 2 of 3d6 supertough" goes to a 52.3% chance!

Get on this PP.

If you think about how statistics work, you'll realize that rolling two dice to get a 1/3 chance is going to be just as streaky as rolling one dice with a 1/3 chance, so it won't actually change anything. The bell curve of 2d6 is only important when rolls are being modified by other factors (by having a better or worse stat for instance), rather than being for a straight up set chance.

 Maddermax wrote:


If you think about how statistics work, you'll realize that rolling two dice to get a 1/3 chance is going to be just as streaky as rolling one dice with a 1/3 chance, so it won't actually change anything. The bell curve of 2d6 is only important when rolls are being modified by other factions (by having a better or worse stat for instance), rather than being for a straight up set chance.

My...my brain just 'sploded.

As for Shocktroopers, I doubt you're going to get a damage buff when the
faction has access to pButcher, both Irusks, and the Iron Fang Kovnik.