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They could have looked out to see, through the security lens, front window or with the door on the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean there are lots of things the students could have done apart from brandishing a gun which was got them into trouble.

It isn't a convincing argument that students in university residences need to be tooled up.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They could have looked out to see, through the security lens, front window or with the door on the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean there are lots of things the students could have done apart from brandishing a gun which was got them into trouble.

It isn't a convincing argument that students in university residences need to be tooled up.

I agree that they don't need to be tooled up, the link I gave says the student that opened the door had his shotgun confiscated (that he uses for hunting). But they were carrying and in the end it circumvented a nasty situation.

It is worth noting many college campuses in North America have their own small police departments that are no gak sworn LEOs. I dunno if Gonzaga does, I'll have to ask my brother.

Part of the problem might be how campus security is IRL/is viewed.

I know that, at my university, they had a small fleet of Chargers and the officers packed heat. Admittedly, 90% of the time they were busy busting into dorms for weed and underage drinking, but they were effective the few times they'd get called on for real things. And they were usually patrolling in their cars so they were really more than a few minutes away at most from any given location.

The effectiveness of the campus police force needs to be factored into the equation in terms of allowing guns off campus in university housing. A weak police force weighs in favor of allowing guns, but a reasonably strong one would weigh against it.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They could have looked out to see, through the security lens, front window or with the door on the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean there are lots of things the students could have done apart from brandishing a gun which was got them into trouble.

It isn't a convincing argument that students in university residences need to be tooled up.

I agree that they don't need to be tooled up, the link I gave says the student that opened the door had his shotgun confiscated (that he uses for hunting). But they were carrying and in the end it circumvented a nasty situation.

They will give him his gun back. The worse thing is if he gets suspended from his course or something.

In terms of circumventing a nasty situation, it could have been averted by kicking the drunk in the nuts.

These incidents can go various ways and not all of them are good. Remember the case of the Texan who shot a Japanese student on Halloween who was lost and came to ask directions?

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
It is worth noting many college campuses in North America have their own small police departments that are no gak sworn LEOs. I dunno if Gonzaga does, I'll have to ask my brother.

Every campus I have been on has actual LEOs, not rent-a-cops.

Kilkrazy wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They could have looked out to see, through the security lens, front window or with the door on the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean there are lots of things the students could have done apart from brandishing a gun which was got them into trouble.

It isn't a convincing argument that students in university residences need to be tooled up.

I agree that they don't need to be tooled up, the link I gave says the student that opened the door had his shotgun confiscated (that he uses for hunting). But they were carrying and in the end it circumvented a nasty situation.

They will give him his gun back. The worse thing is if he gets suspended from his course or something.

In terms of circumventing a nasty situation, it could have been averted by kicking the drunk in the nuts.

These incidents can go various ways and not all of them are good. Remember the case of the Texan who shot a Japanese student on Halloween who was lost and came to ask directions?

Kicking the drunk in the nuts would have gotten the kids charged with assault, which might not have worked out too well for them, but who knows. And no I didn't hear about that case, but I did hear about this old guy who shot some kids with a shotgun because they were toilet papering his neighbor's yard. I do agree that not all of them were good, but in this case it was a good thing. I'm not going to play the "what if" game.

d-usa wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
It is worth noting many college campuses in North America have their own small police departments that are no gak sworn LEOs. I dunno if Gonzaga does, I'll have to ask my brother.

Every campus I have been on has actual LEOs, not rent-a-cops.

Whereas every campus I've been to has rent-a-cops

The cops at one Campus I attended had a larger area of Jurisdiction than the city the main college was in(2 campuses in 2 separate towns 10 miles apart and a 300 acre farm on the outskirts)

 Alfndrate wrote:

d-usa wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
It is worth noting many college campuses in North America have their own small police departments that are no gak sworn LEOs. I dunno if Gonzaga does, I'll have to ask my brother.

Every campus I have been on has actual LEOs, not rent-a-cops.

Whereas every campus I've been to has rent-a-cops

I wonder how much of that is a state-to-state thing.

We even have a mutual-aid agreement with the Campus cops that patrol the hospital that is located right next to our facility.

Of course that means that if stuff gets serious you have Federal Police and Campus Police responding together, which will probably make a few heads on this forum explode

 djones520 wrote:
I've done some digging around, and it seems that it is legal for landlords to say no to guns.

I'll have to make sure I check on that from now on when the AF sends me new places.

It depends on the state.

In Minnesota, the law clearly states that a landlord may not prohibit firearms. It applies to residential and commercial.

I recall Wisconsin having a similar law, but I didn't look closely, because my lease never prohibited weapons when I lived off campus.

edit: of the campuses I have been at, all had actual LEOs, plus city police were often around too. Only time they were rent-a-cops was at community college. It was funny at my uni, all the officers were armed, but they weren't allowed to carry tazers. It was all or nothing with them!

I think if the kids had kicked him in the nuts or punched him or something, after the guy tried to force his way into their house, they'd have been fine. They'd have been faced with an aggressive intruder, and would have used reasonable force to stop him. No assault or battery there.

As for how well armed cops are on universities, that's all the more reason to institute a balancing test on the issue of guns in off campus housing.

Create a several factor test dealing with:
- how intertwined the area is with the community at large
- the nature of the community at large it is intertwined with
- how well armed and proactive the campus PD is

If we're dealing with a dorm-like area in a safe neighborhood with a well armed campus police force, then it weighs heavily against allowed firearms in the off campus housing.

If we're dealing with a house or two among a neighborhood with a fair amount of crime (above average, perhaps) with a weak campus police force, then it weighs heavily in favor of allowing firearms.

The in between is where things get messy, but at least having a test will make things logical.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They could have looked out to see, through the security lens, front window or with the door on the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean there are lots of things the students could have done apart from brandishing a gun which was got them into trouble.

they should have simply told the cops "When my roomate came to my aid, he ran away." They didn't even have to mention that he came to his aid with a gun. Never give more information than you have to.

Also, the University can suck it, even though they are in the right. BS move on their part.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
It is worth noting many college campuses in North America have their own small police departments that are no gak sworn LEOs. I dunno if Gonzaga does, I'll have to ask my brother.

Yea but they aint Hawaii Five - O. Again, shutting down a party, sure. Stopping a home invasion or reporting a felony? No fething way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

These incidents can go various ways and not all of them are good. Remember the case of the Texan who shot a Japanese student on Halloween who was lost and came to ask directions?

I believe that was Louisiana actually. Admittedly the student could have been mistaken for a Yankee.

Maybe they just watched Red Dawn and thought he was Korean...

 kronk wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They could have looked out to see, through the security lens, front window or with the door on the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean there are lots of things the students could have done apart from brandishing a gun which was got them into trouble.

they should have simply told the cops "When my roomate came to my aid, he ran away." They didn't even have to mention that he came to his aid with a gun. Never give more information than you have to.

Also, the University can suck it, even though they are in the right. BS move on their part.

Agreed on all counts. Why even call the rent a cops?

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They could have looked out to see, through the security lens, front window or with the door on the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean there are lots of things the students could have done apart from brandishing a gun which was got them into trouble.

they should have simply told the cops "When my roomate came to my aid, he ran away." They didn't even have to mention that he came to his aid with a gun. Never give more information than you have to.

Also, the University can suck it, even though they are in the right. BS move on their part.

Agreed on all counts. Why even call the rent a cops?

They didn't call university PD.

They called the City PD who responded. City PD also notified University PD since the crime happened on their property, and that is why they responded.

 Frazzled wrote:
Agreed on all counts. Why even call the rent a cops?

I don't know about Gonzaga but at the U of W, the campus police are actual uniformed police officers. It's a full-fleged police department in charge of the campus and environs. They got holding cells and everything.

 Breotan wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Agreed on all counts. Why even call the rent a cops?

I don't know about Gonzaga but at the U of W, the campus police are actual uniformed police officers. It's a full-fleged police department in charge of the campus and environs. They got holding cells and everything.

And when seconds count, are minutes away. The point is taken, though, about the differences between good and poor campus police. The ones here couldn't find their own butts with both hands and a map.

Relapse wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Agreed on all counts. Why even call the rent a cops?

I don't know about Gonzaga but at the U of W, the campus police are actual uniformed police officers. It's a full-fleged police department in charge of the campus and environs. They got holding cells and everything.

And when seconds count, are minutes away. The point is taken, though, about the differences between good and poor campus police. The ones here couldn't find their own butts with both hands and a map.

To be fair, the same could be said about a lot of municipal PDs and Sheriff Deputies...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They could have looked out to see, through the security lens, front window or with the door on the chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean there are lots of things the students could have done apart from brandishing a gun which was got them into trouble.

It isn't a convincing argument that students in university residences need to be tooled up.

How many people are that paranoid that they look out a peephole to see who is there everytime the doorbell rings?

I do, although that's because I don't answer the door for salesman. Not that I'm paranoid about there being a criminal waiting outside. I wouldn't expect may people to utilize the peephole, assuming the door even has one.

If only the culprit hadn't told the cops they brandish a weapon at him....or the chuckleheads mention drawing a weapon when being asked questions for the LEO to file a serious Incident Report

Yeah, I can't see myself calling the cops after successfully resolving the situation.

If only the culprit hadn't told the cops they brandish a weapon at him....or the chuckleheads mention drawing a weapon when being asked questions for the LEO to file a serious Incident Report

There are a thousand different ways this could come out without volunteering anything, or be boxed in verbally.

"Oh, you two chuckleheads drove him off? How did you accomplish that exactly?" This is not an unreasonable question. Besides using the information in court, it allows the officer to add specifics into the description (Example: Bleeding profusely with a steak knife sticking out of his side. PS: Probably armed with a knife now.) and a few other very legit purposes....So what do you say now? You could let this little detail slip, and hello situation...or say nothing about it/lie....

Keep in mind, when they catch the bad guy, he's not going to be in the mood to keep secrets for you. He will say there was a gun involved, and they are going to at *least* directly ask said chuckleheads about it. In all probability someones CPL is going to pop up on a screen, and then VERY pointed questions will be asked.

Yeah, they would have definitely found out about the gun one way or another.

-Shrike- wrote:
Yeah, they would have definitely found out about the gun one way or another.

How so? Do we imagine this homeless guy was going to go running to the police?

They called the police, didn't they? So if the police catch this guy on the way there, or find him afterwards, he's going to sing like a bird.
Also, as SOFDC says, it could easily have come up during questioning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe I should clarify my point - if they used the gun, which they did, I think it would eventually have become apparent to the police. However, if they hadn't used it, I doubt anyone would have found out.

And my point is, once you've driven Crazy McHomeless off, why do you call the police in the first place?

To let them know that there is a crazy homeless man on the loose? Because it is your duty as a citizen to report a crime?

I can see that SOF. I should have gone further. I was hoping Chucklehead with the C&CP wasn't thinking that permit was a trump all rules.