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All this talk of Orks has me wondering how they would fare in an endgame scenario. Naturally, we're assuming they all unite under one banner the same as the Necrons. They have the numbers by a clear margin, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that most of the worlds in the galaxy are infested with Orks, that has to be billions at the very least. You might want to say Orks have a massive disadvantage in terms of technology, but I'm not so sure the gap is that wide. Orks are the undisputed master of certain technologies, most notably tractor beams, which they make use of far more than anybody else. We've been shown many times that while a lot of Orks Meks aren't anything special, there are plenty of individual figures who have an instinctive grasp of technology great than almost anyone else. The Necrons may have mastered many things, but they have done so through millennia of hard thinking and development. An Ork Mek is born knowing at the very least basic technology, in some cases reality manipulation, force fields, whatever powers tractor beams, warp travel. These are things that other races worked towards as a group, but Meks have figured out pretty much on their own. With every Ork united, this is intesified greatly for two main reasons. Firstly, there must by dozens of Orkish geniuses that never got off the ground because they were on feral worlds, or didn't have the space hulk(s) required for a Waaagh, or simply never got the chance to show off their inventions for ny number of reasons. In this scenario, all of these Meks would have a chance to contribute. There might be one who mastered black hole generation or large-scale gravity manipulation. Secondly, the Meks will be working together. Combine tractor beam technology with warp manipulation and you could force Necron vessels or vehicles into warp breaches. There's almost no end to what could be achieved with every Ork Mek in the galaxy could achieve together - they don't have to play by the rules because the orkish psyche enables them to volate the laws of physics on a whim.

Speaking of the Orkish psyche, it's another large advantage. The more Orks you have in one place, the more powerful there technology becomes, empowered by their belief. With every Ork in the galaxy united in a single horde, there's no such thing as impossible. The Necrons can destroy stars, but the Orks might fling them into Necron fleets or use them to roast tomb worlds to vapour. Additionally, the Necrons want to restore their empire. They still fear the end of their civilisation. Orks have no such worry. The greatest war in the history of conflict is only going to make them all the more eager to throw themselves into battle. Then there's the Orkish gods. We already have examples of them stepping briefly into the material realm at the site of large battles to give the Orks a helping hand. With every Ork united, they could permanently inhabit a battlefield - and they're described as so strong the other gods are merely inconsequential to them. They would be an enormous advantage for the Orkish side in any ground conflict. In space, it would depend upon what the Orkish Meks could cook up. Orks would have the numbers advantage, so they wouldn't actually need to be quite equal to what the Necrons can do, but they would need to be close.

As far as strategy goes, the Orkish way of war is highly illogical, which is as mentioned something the Necrons find difficult to deal with. Additionally, although Orks are generally not strategists, through sheer numbers and those one-in-a-million geniuses working together, they could concievably come up with strategies to confoud their opponents without great difficulty - although of course the same is true in reverse. Strategy is definitely the weakest point of the Orks, but with so many working together - how much strategy do you really need with a trillion troops and uncountable war machines to throw at the opponent?

 mattyrm wrote:
Surely everyone that says Necrons is not taking the size of the Imperium properly into account.

Isn't the Imperial Navy supposed to comprise of like, a billion ships?

How could any race stand against that?

By having more and/or better stuff. The Imperium is usually said to be about a million worlds, while the Necrons are said to possess many millions.

Only Imotehk is the one completely befuddled by orks, other Nemesors are quite adept at fighting them.

 mattyrm wrote:
Surely everyone that says Necrons is not taking the size of the Imperium properly into account.

Isn't the Imperial Navy supposed to comprise of like, a billion ships?

How could any race stand against that?

From the BFG rulebook, the Imperial fleet per sector is about 50 to 75 ships of all sizes (capital ship down to escort). The Gothic system had 71 systems of note listed in the BFG rulebook. At 1 million systems in the Imperium, that is about 14,085 sectors (rounded up). That gives a maximum upper limit of about 1,056,735 total ships in the Imperial Navy. This is probably an overestimate because the example of the Calixis Sector shows there are numerous more minor inhabited systems in a sector, so the number of sectors in the Imperium is probably less than 14,085.

In the Fall of Orpheus FW book, the reinforced Imperial sector fleet was shown to comprise 7 battleships (including 1 Retribution and 1 Apocalypse class), "more than 60" cruisers and capital ships, "several hundred" escort class vessels, 4 Space Marine battle barges, and 8 Space Marine strike cruisers.

Facing them, the Necrons are described as fielding less than a quarter of the Imperial ship numbers. The breakdown was 2 Tombships, 20 harvest ships, and the rest escort class vessels, with some later confirmed to be Dirge class raiders.

Though the breakdown of Imperial losses was never completely given, the narrative showed that Imperial losses as at least 2 battleships, 1 battlecruiser, 1 heavy cruiser, 2 battle barges, 3 strike cruisers. In the end, less than 10% of the Imperial fleet was still fit for combat. Little detail was shown of Necron losses with the only definite details being 1 destroyed harvest ship and damage to 1 Tombship. The other Tombship was shown to remain fully operational at the end.

In terms of size, FW has definitely taken to upping everything to ever higher limits. The BFG supplement Warp Storm gives the Battle of Callavell in the Age of Apostacy as one of the largest "set-piece" battles in Imperial history, In that, the Imperial force fielded 8 battleships, 5 grand cruisers, 6 battlecruisers, 5 heavy cruisers, 9 cruisers, and 6 light cruisers for a total of 37 capital ships. The renegade forces in that battle fielded 6 battleships, 4 grand cruisers, 6 battlecruisers, 9 heavy cruisers, 11 cruisers, and 8 light cruisers for a total of 46 capital ships.

So in other words, a single Necron dynasty awakened and within 1 year met and virtually wiped out one of the largest Imperial fleets in the history of the Imperium with modest almost minimal losses. This single dynasty goes on to take out 60 worlds in 100 days, essentially gutting the sector, and it fights off the Imperial counterattack sufficiently that 7 years later after the initial Necron attack, the Imperium dissolves the Orpheus sector.

The events in the FW book are also given a nod and canonized with the reference to the destruction of the Angels Revenant chapter (the SM chapter in the Orpheus sector) in the SM Codex, which was what occurred in the FW book.

Do I like the Necrons being set up as a Mary Sue faction? No, but canonically as written, they have engaged the Imperium in one of the largest fleet battles in the entire history of the Imperium at worse than 1:4 numerical odds and come out with minor losses and damage, while 90% of the Imperial fleet was destroyed or rendered unfit for further combat. The problem with this is that then writers end up having to pull plot armor and deus ex machina solutions or make the Necrons idiots in any story for the human protagonists to prevail.