Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ugh. With books contantly updating like this no ownder people pirate them

I would refrain from buying IA:3 2nd edition since Forgeworld may put together a PDF of useable Lords of War that extends the list in Escalation. It'll probably have the rules for them there.

Regarding the comments on the AX Tigershark...

I base my thoughts on the Tigershark AX from both using them in APOC games, and from using many other superheavies (I personally have 14 - a couple are proxies however) of my own or belonging to friends.


Durability:
Back when necrons were the only flyer and folks had not learned how to shoot them down, being a flyer and only hit on 6's meant something.
Today, its just another av12 flyer. Six hull points is nothing in apoc.
Keeping it out of range is not easy either - unless you are keeping it in reserve for several turns - there are tons of things to shoot at it.
There are units everywhere in apoc - broadsides, aegis guns, flyings MCs, baby necron sentry pylons, barbed hierodules, wave serpents etc.
Then of course many weapons in apoc are very long range (pylon has a range or what? ten feet? ).

With only AV12 you don't need D weapons to kill it. Everything from aegis guns to missile sides can take a shot ( or enemy riptides ...the ion accelerator has a decent shot as well).
Here is a better way to look at it - its as durable as two vendettas....but you don't have to split targets if you over kill one (i.e. if you do 4 HP to a vendetta, some are wasted...not true on the tigershark). For almost 700 points.
Six vendettas would have 18 TL las cannon shots, get jink saves and have 18 hull points for about the same cost profile.

However, I can say that the chaff launchers are a must have, especially if the enemy does not have D Class AA - as that helps a lot.

Offensive Capability.
A single D shot in apoc is just not reliable - many times I have rolled a 1 when hitting a Garg or MC (or a pesky character) or just plain missed.
Compare this to the volume of D shots that other D class super heavies put out (warhounds, pylons, revanants, etc.). Roll a 1 on a shot with a wolf hound? Thats ok, you have three more hits.

Yes, you can kill a land raider with it. Kill a titan in a single shot?
That means you have to make sure the void shields are down, then roll a six. Could happen. Sure, never said they might not get lucky.
But for its price range? A single D shot is not very impressive.
(yes, it can do a blast....but I have thousands of points of other models for killing infantry).

A wolfhound puts out 4 D shots for 750 points, and is exceptionally durable.
A necron plyon puts out three, is very durable.
A reaver puts out seven, and is very durable.
A revanant puts out four, is exceptionally mobile, and due to its amazing holofields - is durable.

Overall
The Tigershark is an awesome model, and yes, it can kill things.
I never said it can't kill things, it can take a hell drake out of the sky easily. But its just so fragile, that it usually does not last very long. You don't even need D weapons to kill it.

It just completely out classed in its point range.
If it were 320 points, that would be a fair cost.

Apoc is a brutal and deadly environment - there are thousands of points of units on the board - and its fun. I own about a dozen super heavies of various races and love them all.

I just recognize that in the hierarchy of functional value - the tigershark is just at the bottom of the list.

Finally
I love the tigershark - I just wish it was better. Maybe its because I have played with (and against) other super heavies so I have higher expectations.
Next week's game is a big one (24,000 points total/12,000 a side) and I will be running my Tau (my fav army). Will I use my Tigershark?
yeah, sure. While I have not given up on it yet, I just don't expect a lot out of it.

Proxy one, play it, see what you think. Maybe yours will be the star of the show. I would just suggest playing a few games before buying the model.
(in my group we are fine with people proxying models for such testing - both my tigersharks and the orca are proxies - they are the correct size and shape, and on flying stands).

Oh, and all of this was regarding the D Railgun one....the ion cannon one....heh....um.... it looks cool?

Thanks for your review on the AX10 I have some stuff to think about, thanks for your support.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
They're definitely not in IA: Apoc, so it must be IA2 2nd ed, which AFAIK is the newest FW book which I don't presently own.

The Tigershark is on page 123, and the Tigershark AX-1-0 is on page 124. Make sure you have the current version of the book, the one published after the new Apocalypse rules.

So I am going to buy the FW book with the AX10 stats. Is it for sure IA2 2nd vol.? Its the one with the stats on p. 124?

If you don't have it already I would definitely pick up IA3: Taros Campaign Second Edition found here http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Armour_Books/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_VOLUME_THREE_SECOND_EDITION_-_THE_TAROS_CAMPAIGN.html


It has all the Forgeworld rules in it for Tau minus the new R'varna model as those are still experimental and came out of this was published.

Expanded list for Lords of War is on forge world.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Tiger Shark AX-1-0 is in.

I really appreciate you posting the link. Would you run any of them if you were going up against a (for example) Revenant? Or would you just buy yourself a new coffee table (Manta )

I have an idea. So what about Eldau? So its a primary detachment of Eldar with a Revenant, and then a Tau detachment with the Farsight melta bomb. What do you think?


So I have decided that I will buy a couple of large pizzas and then try it out in a game. Just for fun. I don't have any intention of actually buying one, but I like modeling and I am really considering just scratch building one. I would only use it in games for fun, so not competitively at all. I will try and post a battle report for that match soon. I have another thread on how to scratch build the manta so if you have some advice I would love the help. For anyone that can take off an HP, they can have a slice of pizza, lol. Anyway, is that something the community would like to see? A manta probably vs a Titan or the new Necron lord of war?