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I was trying to give you an out for the racist generalization you were about to embark on. I failed.

I guess any talk about poverty ends up a talk about racism. I remember a freudian slip a girl had when she replaced black people with poor people. I didnt hound it though.

Raven911 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Raven911 wrote:
Bull. I deal with a lot of these people on a daily basis at work. They don't want to learn anything. Most of them are happy to wallow in their squalor and blame whitey. They don't want to improve anything unless it's another free handout or obamaphone. There are victims and there are volunteers. These are volunteers.

It's not a race thing, so let's not make it one. The attitudes of the impoverished in urban centers are no different than those in trailer parks and backwater hovels. Hipsters just don't want to live in trailer parks.

Actually it is. I deal with trailer parks as well. Those people generally do work, and while not the kind of people that you would want to invite over for dinner, at least tend to take care of themselves. You're inner city projects are going to be mostly black, thats not making it a race thing, that is a simple fact.

What the feth did I just read? Racial generalizations and stereotyping abound! You're showing a very clear preference for one group over another based on the color of their skin, with the implication that trailer park hicks are mostly white and mostly have an income source.

 cincydooley wrote:
I was trying to give you an out for the racist generalization you were about to embark on. I failed.

I dont need an out, thank you very much though. I meant what i said. Anyone who doesnt like can get over it.


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chaos0xomega wrote:

Raven911 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Raven911 wrote:
Bull. I deal with a lot of these people on a daily basis at work. They don't want to learn anything. Most of them are happy to wallow in their squalor and blame whitey. They don't want to improve anything unless it's another free handout or obamaphone. There are victims and there are volunteers. These are volunteers.

It's not a race thing, so let's not make it one. The attitudes of the impoverished in urban centers are no different than those in trailer parks and backwater hovels. Hipsters just don't want to live in trailer parks.

Actually it is. I deal with trailer parks as well. Those people generally do work, and while not the kind of people that you would want to invite over for dinner, at least tend to take care of themselves. You're inner city projects are going to be mostly black, thats not making it a race thing, that is a simple fact.

What the feth did I just read? Racial generalizations and stereotyping abound! You're showing a very clear preference for one group over another based on the color of their skin, with the implication that trailer park hicks are mostly white and mostly have an income source.

Get over yourself. Have a certain group ruin your neighborhood and see how fething open minded you are.

Its okay cincy, he's from South Carolina, they're all racist right wing christian fundamentalists who sleep with their siblings and cousins down there. If you're making ignorant stereotypes then I'm going to make them too.


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Raven911 wrote:


Get over yourself. Have a certain group ruin your neighborhood and see how fething open minded you are.

Heh funny, some of the neighborhoods I grew up in were ruined by other white folk. You don't need to be a minority to open up a meth lab.

No one said you did, but most section 8 areas and gettos are from a certain section of the population.

The difference between me and you is that i say what most other people thibk but are too scared to say because of beig labeled as "racist". You try to act superior and open minded, yet start calling names to people who have another opinion.

And someone from new jersey talking about south carolina is funny.

I was actually tracking what Raven was saying and not even came close to considered him "racist" due to his experience. He stated an observation which I will say I have seen myself on occasions. Cities I have seen it in is;
DC
Baltimore MD
Camden NJ
New York NY
LA CA
Dallas TX
Raleigh NC
Durham NC
Nashville TN
Bowling Green KY

I can go on and on

I even admit to seeing this on military posts mainly due to Dependent kids

Raven911 wrote:
No one said you did, but most section 8 areas and gettos are from a certain section of the population.

The difference between me and you is that i say what most other people thibk but are too scared to say because of beig labeled as "racist". You try to act superior and open minded, yet start calling names to people who have another opinion.

And someone from new jersey talking about south carolina is funny.

No, what you said was racist.

I do plenty of "saying what other people think" and I can do it without thinly veiled racism spewing through.

I'm all about being able to have different opinions, but yours is a racist one. You're entitled to it, but that doesn't mean we won't call you on it.

Raven911 wrote:
No one said you did, but most section 8 areas and gettos are from a certain section of the population.

Yeah, from the poor section.

Bullockist wrote:

Raven911 wrote:
No one said you did, but most section 8 areas and gettos are from a certain section of the population.

Yeah, from the poor section.

Come on silly, everyone knows that Poor people are a separate race

 cincydooley wrote:
Gentrification doesn't actually fix a proble; it simply moves it.

True, but that gets back to my point that the real issue is poverty, not gentrification. I mean, flip that around and consider what happens if gentrification is stopped - it doesn't actually fix the problem (of poor people in poor neighbourhoods), it just reverts to the old position of people not paying attention to the poor people living in the poor suburb that no-one ever goes to.


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 Frazzled wrote:
Criminals are not going to change. They will destroy your urban gentrification just as much as their old slum.

If there was such a thing as 'the criminal' who was the same person in all times, then your idea there would work. But exactly what causes people to commit crimes is a pretty interesting piece of psychology, for instance have you ever heard of the Broken Window theory? That's the observation that places that look run down (ie have broken windows) people are way more likely to commit opportunistic criminal acts, than they are in areas that look clean and well looked after.

The result is that an area that's been cleaned up, even if there's no dramatic change in the make up of the local population will actually have less crime. It was likely one of the big contributing factors to the sudden decline of crime in major cities like New York in the early 90s.


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Raven911 wrote:
The difference between me and you is that i say what most other people thibk but are too scared to say because of beig labeled as "racist".

That is true, you say what a lot of other people think but won't say in public.

That doesn't mean it isn't a gross simplification based entirely on racist nonsense, though.

And that's the really important thing that gets lost too often - racism shouldn't get shouted down because it's wrong or offensive, it should get shouted down because it's stupid.

Raven911 wrote:


The difference between me and you is that i say what most other people thibk but are too scared to say because of beig labeled as "racist". You try to act superior and open minded, yet start calling names to people who have another opinion.

You DO know I'm a "minority" right? Obviously you don't, but now you do. Keep in mind who it is you're speaking to, maybe you won't make yourself look so foolish. As for calling you names, I guess you missed the point I was trying to make, not even going to bother explaining it to you. And I'll forgive you for your New Jersey comment, mostly because I pity you for no knowing what its like to live in such an amazing place.

As for saying what other people think but are 'too scared to say', I would argue that all you're really saying is what YOU think, and the reality is that people don't say it because they know better.

I dont care if youre blue. So now you want to throw the race card at me? Nice. I happen to be married to a minority, so that really doesnt do anything for me.

The broken window theory works, but it works th same as the gentrification, it displaces crime, it doesnt stop it. No matter what you do you just keep shuffling the problem around. As someone else said, criminals are not going to stop committig crime because you cleaned the place up. The only thing the stops crime is keeping the criminals locked up.

In the "racist" example i used with In my experience with the brand new town homes that were built beside my property, these were super nice homes, and because of the section 8 parasites that were put in there, it was nearly destroyed within a month, and they were starting to try to destroy our area with crime, trash and graffitti.

Its no wonder that people want to move away from stuff like this and get out in the country. Who wants to hear gunshots and shouted profanity all hours of the night.

And if Jersey was so good then why are so many of your people moving here? Maybe better climate, lower taxes, and more freedom?

I'm married to an alien, but a legal one. She's a dern ferenner, from Chicago.

I hope she at least knows how to make a good pizza.

Raven911 wrote:
I dont care if youre blue. So now you want to throw the race card at me? Nice. I happen to be married to a minority, so that really doesnt do anything for me.

Again you miss the point. By stating I am a minority I was pointing out that I don't think 'what most people think' and I'm not afraid of saying something because I would 'be labeled racist' or whatever excuse you're trying to use to justify and rationalize your belief system.

The broken window theory works, but it works th same as the gentrification, it displaces crime, it doesnt stop it. No matter what you do you just keep shuffling the problem around. As someone else said, criminals are not going to stop committig crime because you cleaned the place up. The only thing the stops crime is keeping the criminals locked up.

Thats incorrect. No, you won't stop ALL crime, there is always a certain hardline criminal element dedicated to the lifestyle, but the overwhelming majority of people, including the majority of 'criminals', will take ownership of their surroundings, particularly if it means an increase in their status, whether real or perceived. Fun fact, most 'criminals' want the same thing that you and I do, they just turn to different methods to achieve it, but if given the opportunity to have that status in a 'legitimate' manner, they will take it.

In the "racist" example i used with In my experience with the brand new town homes that were built beside my property, these were super nice homes, and because of the section 8 parasites that were put in there, it was nearly destroyed within a month, and they were starting to try to destroy our area with crime, trash and graffitti.

Its no wonder that people want to move away from stuff like this and get out in the country. Who wants to hear gunshots and shouted profanity all hours of the night.

Section 8 housing is still section 8 housing, just because you give someone a nice place to live at a greatly reduced cost doesn't mean these people aren't still living in poverty struggling to make ends meet and at risk of losing everything they have. Beyond that, getting back to the original point of this thread, they have no reason to take ownership of their situation, everyone else is benefiting from the increased economic status of the area, not them, they are merely being given an opportunity to observe it courtesy of the nice white folk down the road who feel sorry for them.

And if Jersey was so good then why are so many of your people moving here? Maybe better climate, lower taxes, and more freedom?

Every New Jerseyan wants to leave at some point in their life, hell even the Boss did, but a surprisingly large number of them actually come back. BTW, New Jersey is one of the few states in the Northeast to see population growth trends

chaos0xomega wrote:
Beyond that, getting back to the original point of this thread, they have no reason to take ownership of their situation, everyone else is benefiting from the increased economic status of the area, not them, they are merely being given an opportunity to observe it courtesy of the nice white folk down the road who feel sorry for them.

That's bs.

Access to better schools and facilities that are commonly associated with more upper class areas. While they perhaps won't have the opportunity to access them all, getting your kids into a decent school is a good start in beginning to change your families economic and social standing.

 Medium of Death wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Beyond that, getting back to the original point of this thread, they have no reason to take ownership of their situation, everyone else is benefiting from the increased economic status of the area, not them, they are merely being given an opportunity to observe it courtesy of the nice white folk down the road who feel sorry for them.

That's bs.

Access to better schools and facilities that are commonly associated with more upper class areas. While they perhaps won't have the opportunity to access them all, getting your kids into a decent school is a good start in beginning to change your families economic and social standing.

Overwhelmingly gentrification is a function of younger crowds who don't have children and thus there isn't much political clout behind improving local public education, beyond that, increasingly (as the yupsters eventually age and do start reproducing), they send their children off to private schools which are funded in part via increasingly popular tax credit programs so that local public schools don't actually see that dramatic a benefit.

While I don't know all the details, I will say that NYC has seemingly found a way to work around this, as I increasingly see students from underprivileged backgrounds attending (theoretically) upscale private charter schools as well.

I thought De Blasio just got rid of all the charter schools?

Think a couple of you all need to step back
Remember to breathe
Remember there are two sides of a coin here
Articulate
Clarify
Think outside the box

I did not know you are a "minority" Chaos
I am a "minority" but I do not consider myself a minority

Can someone explain to me the difference between the anti-gentrification movement and segregationists?

 TheSilo wrote:
Can someone explain to me the difference between the anti-gentrification movement and segregationists?

Gentrification doesn't do any integrating. In fact it most often does the exact opposite.

 Frazzled wrote:
I thought De Blasio just got rid of all the charter schools?

*shrug* I haven't been to NYC since he was elected, don't care to much either.

I did not know you are a "minority" Chaos
I am a "minority" but I do not consider myself a minority

I'm of Dominican descent, my moms half of the family is... err... well, they're pretty much black, though she's very light skinned compared to most of the family, though I consider myself 'white' (mostly) as I seemingly took after my dads German/Hungarian genes.