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Any GK rerolls 1s, a Dreadnought rerolls all failed dice when Denying.

Sevrin Loth of the Red Scorpions chapter is guaranteed to get it too.

As for psychic shriek, it's a witchfire. You have to roll to hit for it to affect it's target. That's how witchfire works.

Novas are actually a really good counter, unfortunately there isn't many of them and none of them are going to hurt invisible terminators much.

Exergy wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

 Thariinye wrote:
The chances of getting at least one Invisibility if you roll all on Telepathy are, if I'm doing the math correctly, 1-(5/6*4/6*3/6)^2 == ~93%. Note that that's actually better than the previous edition, because if you make the decision to go all in on a discipline, you get the primaris for free, meaning you have only 6 powers to roll on instead of 7.

Unless you are Orks, then just Snap Shot away with your buckets of dice anyway.

true, but there are buffs to dispel out there, rune priests get +1, Njal gets +2 making his chances of success much higher.

dont GK get to reroll their failures

Lanlaorn wrote:Any GK rerolls 1s, a Dreadnought rerolls all failed dice when Denying.

Actually that refers to a Unit making a DTW attempt, when Denying Blessings you aren't using a specific unit therefore you don't get the rerolls unfortunately, but for denying Debuffs and Witchfires, yes, you will get to reroll some dice.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It needs to roll to hit, but unless they've changed the wording for resolving witchfires or psychic shriek it doesn't actually have to hit to affect the unit.

I don't know about changed wording. I know what I read in the 7th BRB witchfire needs to hit unless otherwise stated, psychic shriek dies not otherwise state, thus needs to hit to effect unit.

I don't like it. I've tried to shriek a DP out of the sky and been unable to.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
You could Psychic Shriek any Invis character/unit to death with Ahriman in one turn, I reckon.

but he's still hitting on 6+...

doesn't matter with shriek

Per my reading it does. It's a witchfire. Unless otherwise stated, those need to roll to hit. Page 27.

Good call. My bad.

What is the consensus on templates and blast markers affecting invisible units?

Granted, I cannot target that unit with a flamer or blast marker, but if my template overlaps it OR if a blast scatters onto an invisible unit, does it hit the invisible unit? (Much like the doom scythe as well)

By my reading, I am not seeing anything that says they would not be hit by templates or blast markers. I only see you cannot intentionally target with them.

Henshini wrote:
I just don't understand why they buffed it. Invisibility was one of the top telepathy powers in 6th. The only reason they seem to have changed it was because they were too lazy to think up a new original power when they took out puppet master and replaced it with the shrouded power.

The way powers work has drastically changed. You can't just throw down all of your powers every turn anymore. A WC2 power requires you throw more dice at it than a ML3 psyker generates. Ignores cover is more prevalent now so its nice to have something that isn't effected by it.

 Green is Best! wrote:
What is the consensus on templates and blast markers affecting invisible units?

Granted, I cannot target that unit with a flamer or blast marker, but if my template overlaps it OR if a blast scatters onto an invisible unit, does it hit the invisible unit? (Much like the doom scythe as well)

By my reading, I am not seeing anything that says they would not be hit by templates or blast markers. I only see you cannot intentionally target with them.

Works the same way that blasts work with friendly models. You can't put them over them, but scatter can still be a bitch.

Walk that barrage template, make it walk.

 Leth wrote:
Also apparently ghost helms dont negate the other effects of perils, just the wound. Can someone confirm that(I dont have a codex).

I was just looking at that. The entire text is: "If a model with a ghosthelm suffers an unsaved Wound from Perils of the Warp, he can prevent it by immediately expending a Warp Charge point (if he has one)"

Looks like all the other effects still happen.

Makes tyranids shadow even better then. Making their leadership lower for if they perils. Have to seriously think about throwing that 10 dice.

 undertow wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Also apparently ghost helms dont negate the other effects of perils, just the wound. Can someone confirm that(I dont have a codex).

I was just looking at that. The entire text is: "If a model with a ghosthelm suffers an unsaved Wound from Perils of the Warp, he can prevent it by immediately expending a Warp Charge point (if he has one)"

Looks like all the other effects still happen.

Imo this just makes the Ghosthelm even more powerful. For Eldar the Perils Chart essentially looks like:
1 - ~9% chance of being removed from play, no other possible effects
2 - Randomly lose a power
3 - Lose D3 Warp Charge
4 and 5 - Nothing
6 - ~91% chance of a buff

So on a 3+ on this table you are guaranteed to not have any lasting negative effects. Losing a power is annoying, but it has a much lower chance of completely crippling you like it would for Lvl 1 Psykers.

I plan on making invisibility a 5+ to hit rather than a 6 and for shooting the unit needs 6 to hit NOT snap shots, just a 6 to hit, templates scatter without useing bs, power now fixed

 Kain wrote:

major_payne wrote:
Heres a good one, I have a tournament in August and there will be 3-5 seerstar/serpent/revenant lists... If a revenant becomes invisible for a turn, how do you kill it?... D-weapons are mainly blast at range, it was hard enough to kill it with its 3+ save...

Throw your rulebook at the users.

That'll teach 'em.

Never throw your weapon, rule one of a fight. Bash them with it. Better yet, bash the titan. While it's falling, scream something about how this isn't apoc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for how to counter Invis, the moment they roll it, notice that they will be casting it. Save your charges to deny it. The plus side of new DTW is you're practically guaranteed to stop one power. Pick this one. Chances of them having it twice on two different characters is minimal.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It needs to roll to hit, but unless they've changed the wording for resolving witchfires or psychic shriek it doesn't actually have to hit to affect the unit.

I don't know about changed wording. I know what I read in the 7th BRB witchfire needs to hit unless otherwise stated, psychic shriek dies not otherwise state, thus needs to hit to effect unit.

"Similarly, a witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described in the Blast special rule, or it is a Template weapon, which hit automatically."

So, Psychic Shriek must roll to hit. However, when you take this rule into account:

"Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry."

and the entry for Psychic Shriek:
"Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power with a range of 18". Roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result. Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek."

We can see that, due to the remarkable job the GW design team has done, we have a psychic power that needs to roll to hit, but doesn't tell you to roll any dice to hit, and has an entry that does not actually require the to hit roll to be successful to resolve.
So to resolve Psychic Shriek, you roll 0 dice to hit, then roll 3D6 and subtract the target's Leadership, and inflict that many wounds.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

"Similarly, a witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described in the Blast special rule, or it is a Template weapon, which hit automatically."

So, Psychic Shriek must roll to hit. However, when you take this rule into account:

"Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry."

and the entry for Psychic Shriek:
"Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power with a range of 18". Roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result. Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek."

We can see that, due to the remarkable job the GW design team has done, we have a psychic power that needs to roll to hit, but doesn't tell you to roll any dice to hit, and has an entry that does not actually require the to hit roll to be successful to resolve.
So to resolve Psychic Shriek, you roll 0 dice to hit, then roll 3D6 and subtract the target's Leadership, and inflict that many wounds.

Do you use this same profile for Haemorrhage? It, too never specifies the requirement to hit despite being a witchfire spell.

There exists a rule for witchfires needing to hit unless otherwise stated. Psychic Shriek does not otherwise state, and stands in the same book as the rules for witchfire. Were it codex specific, I'd agree with you. Last I'll say on it, since this is not a YMDC thread.

I plan on spamming some vortex of doom. They will eventually scatter onto that invisible unit. I also have 14 + D6 warp charge in my list. That should help me at least target invisibilty for DtW. But it is seriously a problem.

Had an invisible Storm Raven. Was kind of funny. It unloaded the pain on the seer squad, who really doesn't like psi-shock.

-Matt

Karamazov. Ultimate counter to invisibility?

Umm, normally I wouldn't make such an absolute statement but, Invisibility is broken. I've used it a few times with just one plain Farseer, making it difficult to reliably cast spells.

Even previously weak units like Guardians and Shinig Spears can become defensive powerhouses. In one game a squad of Dire Avengers held up a Wolf Priest, Arjac and Logan and 2 other Wolf Terminators (took out the 2 Terminators by the way) for 2 whole turns. I might be over-estimating cuz' I had hot dice with my Shimmershield saves but, only getting hit on 6s is HUGE for a full squad.

I wanna run an Invisible beastpack but, in a way I don't. If I ran Eldrad + Farseer and got 2 units Invisible, I would actually understand if the opponent felt salty. There are other lists that can get Invisibility reliably cast on 3 or 4 units. Tank heavy IG players might as well not even pull their models out of the cases.

Mind you some units (cough Banshees cough) are still terrible even with it.

 RancidHate wrote:

Even previously weak units like Guardians and Shinig Spears can become defensive powerhouses. In one game a squad of Dire Avengers held up a Wolf Priest, Arjac and Logan and 2 other Wolf Terminators (took out the 2 Terminators by the way) for 2 whole turns. I might be over-estimating cuz' I had hot dice with my Shimmershield saves but, only getting hit on 6s is HUGE for a full squad.

Wouldn't a wolf tooth talisman overrule invis? It specifically states the model hits on 3+ in melee.

Wolf Tooth says ' hits on 3 regardless of weapon skill ' but the Invisibility says ' all hits in close combat require 6s to hit and all shots fired at the unit must be snap shots '.

I took the word ' all ' to slightly trump Wolf Tooth, since Invisibility doesn't make any mention of Weapon Skill like 6th edition Invisibility.

Wolf Tooth says the model always hits on 3+ (the weapon skill part is irrelevant, it still says you hit on 3+ all the time), Invisibility says it always hits on 6+. The rules are in conflict and thus the Codex overrules the rulebook. Similarly, Khârn would still hit on 2+ due to his special rule.

That's my take on it at least.

It's a valid take, since the rules are in conflict. I tried to flow chart it and, I do believe Kharn always hits on 2s since his rule IIRC is ' always hits on 2s but hits allies on 1s ' (and it says nothing about weapon skill. So flow could be?

Weapon Skill mentioned?

Yes. No direct conflict. BRB Invisibility Trumps.
No. Direct Conflict. Codex Trumps.

There's a thread on this in YMDC right now, and the interpretation that I currently like is:

Both Invisibility and the Wolf-tooth Talisman are 'set' modifiers, much like Unwieldy. Set modifiers all take place at the same time. We know what to do when two things happen at exactly the same time: the player whose turn it is gets to decide what order things happen in. Therefore on the Space Wolves turn, the guy holding the talisman hits on 3+ (player decides that 6+ Invis applies first, and is then overriden by 3+ wolf tooth), and on the Invisibility player's turn, their models are only hit on 6+ (Wolf tooth talisman first for 3+, then overridden by Invis for the 6+).

Just to clear it this up, it isn't codex trumps rulebook, but rather specific trumps generic.

Under Basic Versus Advanced: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence."

Honestly, I'm freaking thrilled about it because my auto-include Culexus isn't stupid anymore. Psyocculum is the greatest. Suck it invis-spammers. Toss him in with a shooty IC and blast some fool from a mile away with BS10.

Culexus assassins and null rods are so hot right now, instant death for Psykers + total immunity to psychic powers? LOL Psy-spam. I have never been more keyed into the inquisition.

The answer to invisibility is orks.

Because who cares about snap-shooting all that much when you are BS2 to begin with?

Okay well, Invisibility might have some hard counters but, I still feel it's broken. However, to remain on topic, here are some counters:

Ork Shooting
Some Necron scythes? (please elaborate)
Kharn
IG FRFSRF
Nova or Beam type psychic attacks

MAybe?