Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
I'm just waiting for the next great supplement: CADIA! That will be a breath of fresh air.

I would buy a Cadian supplement.

I love Cadia and the background surrounding the planet and the Cadian Shock Troops, so it'd be great for me...

Luckily for you, the AM codex is already codex Cadia (hence why its so bland and basic )

Not actually true. Cadia has no "Stormtroopers", no Ogryn/Bullgryn, and no Rough Riders.

Then you have the fact that depending on which source you read? They have no Commissars. They have training for anyone of Lieutenant rank or higher in how to recognize the taint of the Warp in Psykers, but by and large they don't need that whole "morale upkeep" aspect of Commissars.

And then you have the Kasrkin--the Cadian mixture of Stormtroopers and Grenadiers. They could be used for special missions or as line infantry.

If they bring out supplement Cadia I will be more annoyed than usual with GW wasting potential again.

On the contrary, there is a lot of potential for cool stuff in a Cadian supplement. New formations, new weapons, etc themed specifically around Cadia.

Ummm rough riders, ogryns and commissars are never from home planets... arent they trained or brought from other planets and attached to other regiments? So yes cadians can and do have these attatched to them when needed. Commissars are there for more than moral. They keep tabs and ensure nobody is doing anything shady etc.

The codex is Codex Cadia as it stands with a tiny teeny amount of Catachan thrown in. Codex Cadia would be a horrible waste given that the standard codex already is Codex Cadia.

The sign on the door said "don't feed the trolls".

Anyways, I think the biggest problem here is still one of expectations. The previous new codex added in, what, 18 new units not counting special characters? I think people were expecting this update to be as big as the last one.

Which is silly. That kind of growth is unsustainable. Of course this codex would be much more about tweaking things than throwing a bunch of new toys at us.

Because noting that your basic mechvet squad went from costing 125 points to 125 points is rather nit-picking...

Oh, and...

PhillyT wrote:Blob squads got even better and are virtually unkillable in CC

Lol, since when is T3 Sv5+ unkillable?

Someone should introduce you to some striking scorpions or warrior+DCA henchmen squads or khorne berzerkers sometime.

It'll be fine when 'Waagh! Marbo' hits the shelves.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
I'm just waiting for the next great supplement: CADIA! That will be a breath of fresh air.

I would buy a Cadian supplement.

I love Cadia and the background surrounding the planet and the Cadian Shock Troops, so it'd be great for me...

Luckily for you, the AM codex is already codex Cadia (hence why its so bland and basic )

Not actually true. Cadia has no "Stormtroopers", no Ogryn/Bullgryn, and no Rough Riders.

Then you have the fact that depending on which source you read? They have no Commissars. They have training for anyone of Lieutenant rank or higher in how to recognize the taint of the Warp in Psykers, but by and large they don't need that whole "morale upkeep" aspect of Commissars.

And then you have the Kasrkin--the Cadian mixture of Stormtroopers and Grenadiers. They could be used for special missions or as line infantry.

If they bring out supplement Cadia I will be more annoyed than usual with GW wasting potential again.

On the contrary, there is a lot of potential for cool stuff in a Cadian supplement. New formations, new weapons, etc themed specifically around Cadia.

Ummm rough riders, ogryns and commissars are never from home planets... arent they trained or brought from other planets and attached to other regiments? So yes cadians can and do have these attatched to them when needed. Commissars are there for more than moral. They keep tabs and ensure nobody is doing anything shady etc.

Commissars are there for morale purposes and for rooting out corruption/taint. Considering that they are only really necessary when you don't actually have experience in rooting out or recognizing those kinds of signs(spoiler alert: if you're from a planet like Cadia? It's safe to say you might be able to recognize it without needing a lifelong primer course in a Schola Progenium).

Depending, again, what you read? Commissars are either: A) Primarily attached to regiments from their home world(Remember they're orphans, not children born in space with no home world) or B) Attached to regiments from their home world preferably, but other worlds if not possible.

Ogryn are an iffy thing. They're "never from home planets", but they're assigned as auxiliary units for a large force not on an individual basis. You don't have Ogryn Squads assigned to the Cadian 8225th Interior Guard detachment, but rather they would be assigned en masse to the Cadian Interior Guard and deployed piecemeal from there.

The codex is Codex Cadia as it stands with a tiny teeny amount of Catachan thrown in. Codex Cadia would be a horrible waste given that the standard codex already is Codex Cadia.

Actually it's Codex: Astra Militarum. I understand the confusion though.

I mean if you really want to get into it though, nothing is saying that if they do more supplements that they will be like the "older supplements". Look at Waagh! Ghazghkull. Seriously. Look at it.

That's how a supplement should be done. It gives you a unique force organization chart with special rules just for the FOC and detachment. It also gives you unique formations that represent key parts of signature armies relating to that army. And then you have missions, new relics, etc.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
I'm just waiting for the next great supplement: CADIA! That will be a breath of fresh air.

I would buy a Cadian supplement.

I love Cadia and the background surrounding the planet and the Cadian Shock Troops, so it'd be great for me...

Luckily for you, the AM codex is already codex Cadia (hence why its so bland and basic )

Not actually true. Cadia has no "Stormtroopers", no Ogryn/Bullgryn, and no Rough Riders.

Then you have the fact that depending on which source you read? They have no Commissars. They have training for anyone of Lieutenant rank or higher in how to recognize the taint of the Warp in Psykers, but by and large they don't need that whole "morale upkeep" aspect of Commissars.

And then you have the Kasrkin--the Cadian mixture of Stormtroopers and Grenadiers. They could be used for special missions or as line infantry.

If they bring out supplement Cadia I will be more annoyed than usual with GW wasting potential again.

On the contrary, there is a lot of potential for cool stuff in a Cadian supplement. New formations, new weapons, etc themed specifically around Cadia.

Ummm rough riders, ogryns and commissars are never from home planets... arent they trained or brought from other planets and attached to other regiments? So yes cadians can and do have these attatched to them when needed. Commissars are there for more than moral. They keep tabs and ensure nobody is doing anything shady etc.

Commissars are there for morale purposes and for rooting out corruption/taint. Considering that they are only really necessary when you don't actually have experience in rooting out or recognizing those kinds of signs(spoiler alert: if you're from a planet like Cadia? It's safe to say you might be able to recognize it without needing a lifelong primer course in a Schola Progenium).

Depending, again, what you read? Commissars are either: A) Primarily attached to regiments from their home world(Remember they're orphans, not children born in space with no home world) or B) Attached to regiments from their home world preferably, but other worlds if not possible.

Ogryn are an iffy thing. They're "never from home planets", but they're assigned as auxiliary units for a large force not on an individual basis. You don't have Ogryn Squads assigned to the Cadian 8225th Interior Guard detachment, but rather they would be assigned en masse to the Cadian Interior Guard and deployed piecemeal from there.

The codex is Codex Cadia as it stands with a tiny teeny amount of Catachan thrown in. Codex Cadia would be a horrible waste given that the standard codex already is Codex Cadia.

Actually it's Codex: Astra Militarum. I understand the confusion though.

I mean if you really want to get into it though, nothing is saying that if they do more supplements that they will be like the "older supplements". Look at Waagh! Ghazghkull. Seriously. Look at it.

That's how a supplement should be done. It gives you a unique force organization chart with special rules just for the FOC and detachment. It also gives you unique formations that represent key parts of signature armies relating to that army. And then you have missions, new relics, etc.

Supplements always have a special character. With ALL the cadians in the "AM" codex already, who will they add to codex Cadia part 2? I mean unless they do another bland ork one with less for the same price...

Also I think you need to re read your fluff. I hate the fluff and already I can pick apart some f your arguments. The imperium always assumes you will do something wrong. Thats why commissars are in all regiments. It specifically states commissars are never from the same homeworld as the regiment they are assigned to. That way they dont overlook homeworld tradition.

Rough riders are rarely employed in mass. Like Ogryns they are asigned to whatever regiment needs themn. Can be cadian or ghoochaloochian, doesn't matter.

Tell me, please, how do you think the Cadia part 2 will differ from cadia part 1?

There is a reason the AM codex is cadian, because GW primarily sells cadians. They kept a tiny bit of Catahcan in there to sell the tiny bit of catachan GW sells.

AM codex is codex Cadia.

Waagh! Ghazghkull has no characters added in.

And continually saying "Codex: AM is Codex: Cadia" doesn't make it true.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Waagh! Ghazghkull has no characters added in.

I mentioned that above. But if you are wishing for some more cadian rules to suit the cadian codex, then at least admit it.

And please tell me how its not codex cadia with a tiny bit of Catachan thrown in?

The dudes in the arts don't have purple eyes. So they aren't cadians. If the codex doesn't include cadians as at least 51% of force then it can't be called a cadia codex. Or are we using the Common Wealth tricks where 5 tons of cabbage from Polands turns in to 6 tons of cabbage from UK as long as you mix it up?

It would be possible to make a good Cadian supplement. Kasrkin, Cadian whiteshields, officers, commissars and psykers could all be given customized rules over their generic counterparts as they *are* somewhat different int he fluff. The army could also have custom rules like the iron discipline they had in the 3/4e dex and Eye of Terror supplement. The resistance to (and hatred of) chaos could also be represented. They have definite leanings in weaponry used such as grenade launchers and... autocannons was it? The Cadian fluff is also pretty extensive, though I'm not a fan of just rehashing it. I don't think custom FOCs would be necessary (and I'm not a fan of them as such) but Kasrkin could be shifted to troops somehow easily enough for the odd occasion they may be employed in mass if that happens. Regarding demi humans, they were blocked from taking these in the 3/4e dex when using doctrines, I'm not sure Cadians find them that acceptable... though in the Dawn of War games they happily ran alongside the Ogryns.

I do think that the IG 'dex is a "generic guard" 'dex, and Cadians are sold as both the generic guard and as the best of the best due to training from birth and having great equipment and what not... it's strange. Like with Chaos and Black Legion, it was possible to make the supplement - I just don't think it as good an idea as making one for less well represented armies such as Tanith (gimmie!), Tallarn, Savlars, whatever. I'd include Elysian and DKK but FW does a really good job on them. A better job than GW does tbh.

The reason Cadians are now sold as standard Guard is simply because they sell Cadians. Its just a lazy way of going about it really. I'm just used to the old 3rd edition codex where it was actually codex everything. the art was of regiments that both had and did not have models. Stories of all worlds etc. Now the only thing generic about this codex is the choice of Camo and Carapace on veterans.

But white shields are the conscript unit in that codex. Are karskins even mentioned anymore? Or are they kinda, just gone...?

As to the weapons etc, preferred weapons are different to only being allowed certain weapons. Hence why all the weapon versions where sold on all the regiments. I think that was in the 4th codex for anyone who wanted to make a tradition based army.

If it where up to me, the Generic codex would have a Regiment creator kind of like doctrines that defined what units you take and what things they can and cant have plus a few tweaks etc to make your regiment unique. But as mentioned above I guess GW wants to focus on selling Cadians so that will never happen.

I wonder what the life line on non Cadian regiments is. I sometimes wonder if Cadians will be the standard guard regiment for all worlds over the next decade or so.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:
I said major. Like in game ending will never field the model ever major.

Chimeras going up nearly 20% in price and losing major utility for command squads and vets is pretty major.

20% sounds like a lot, but we are talking about 10 points here. They are more durable, and did lose three fire points, but gained two wracks of las gun that can fire at different targets from the vehicle and the models inside.

Chimera are still a fine choice for the army.

 Swastakowey wrote:
The reason Cadians are now sold as standard Guard is simply because they sell Cadians. Its just a lazy way of going about it really. I'm just used to the old 3rd edition codex where it was actually codex everything. the art was of regiments that both had and did not have models. Stories of all worlds etc. Now the only thing generic about this codex is the choice of Camo and Carapace on veterans.

I suggest you look in the AM book. They actually have a "showcase page" with several different regiments that "both had and do not have models".

But white shields are the conscript unit in that codex.

No, they aren't. Whiteshields are a Conscript unit but they are not the Conscript unit.

Are Kasrkin even mentioned anymore? Or are they kinda, just gone...?

They're not mentioned but they're not gone either. Kasrkin weren't Stormtroopers as you seem to believe. They were Hellgun armed, Carapace Armored Veterans for all intents and purposes.

As to the weapons etc, preferred weapons are different to only being allowed certain weapons. Hence why all the weapon versions were sold on all the regiments. I think that was in the 4th codex for anyone who wanted to make a tradition based army.

If it were up to me, the Generic codex would have a Regiment creator kind of like doctrines that defined what units you take and what things they can and cant have plus a few tweaks etc to make your regiment unique. But as mentioned above I guess GW wants to focus on selling Cadians so that will never happen.

Why bother with that anymore?

Seriously. The Doctrine system was nice and all but it also punished you unnecessarily simply if you wanted to do a Doctrine force.

I wonder what the life line on non Cadian regiments is. I sometimes wonder if Cadians will be the standard guard regiment for all worlds over the next decade or so.

Considering that even before now they have been making a point of showing that Cadians aren't "just from Cadia" anymore, but rather you have the descendents of Cadian regiments that muster out on a world they've conquered being brought up as a new Regiment under a new name--it's not beyond belief that Cadian equipment does proliferate to the point where you can have their training and equipment clear on the other side of the galaxy from Cadia itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yonan wrote:

I do think that the IG 'dex is a "generic guard" 'dex, and Cadians are sold as both the generic guard and as the best of the best due to training from birth and having great equipment and what not... it's strange.

It's not as strange as you think. They have for the past few editions made a point of talking about how Cadians are "emulated throughout the Imperium" by forces that ape their methods of war and their equipment.
Plus considering you have whole Forge Worlds devoted to solely supplying Cadia with their style of equipment, it's not beyond belief that there might be surpluses of their equipment that can be handed off to newly founded Regiments elsewhere.

In regards to the "generic Guard and best of the best", that's where a new FOC like the W!G one could come in.

Something like Relentless or Slow and Purposeful to represent the sheer volume of fire that well-trained and disciplined troopers could pour on while advancing would be pretty nifty.

Hate to say it mate but this basically is "Codex Cadia" as they are the most generic of all the IG Regiments (since they are the only one in plastic, well done GW) and most of the Characters in the new book are Cadian. Their Specialist units like Kasirkin are now Scions and the Whiteshields are just Conscripts, not trying to be a downer but this book clearly to me is Codex Cadia with a few other Regimental Characters thrown in. You could even run a Kasirkin Regiment out of Militarium Tempestus if you want, all they did is condense it into a generic and Vanilla book like they did with Space Marines so "Codex Cadia" already exisits because that's what the Astra Militarium Codex is. Now if they are going to do any supplement it will probably be one of the following:

-Steel Legion: Special Rules with their Chimeras like everyone has to be mounted in one and maybe a bonus for shooting more weapons out of the top hatch, additional movement disembarking, they become assault vehicles ect.

-Catachan: They are mentioned in the new Astra Militarium but much like the "Farsight Enclaves" it probably is meant for people to pick and choose which book they would rather run it out of. Could see army wide "shroud or stealth" rule, move through cover and possibility of booby-trapping terrain.

-Valhallan Ice Warriors: Bring back the Special Character Chenkov for this Supplement and maybe...CIAPHAS CAIN! That would be awesome! Lots of Infantry wave tactics and buffs, hatred against Orks ect.

-Tallaran Desert Raiders: Unless Forgeworld is considering expanding their line of models (which may be a possibility) lots of outflanking and scouting units, disruption rules before and during the game, unique rough riders, special Tank rules.

-Vostroyans: Urban fighting specialist, special rules for buildings and ruins, move through cover ect.

These are just examples of what would be better supplements then a Cadian one because as stated, Astra Militarium is already basically Codex Cadia. Also would give GW an excuse to release a new set of plastic figures and potentially rake in more cash (especially with Steel Legion).

 PhillyT wrote:

20% sounds like a lot, but we are talking about 10 points here. They are more durable, and did lose three fire points, but gained two wracks of las gun that can fire at different targets from the vehicle and the models inside.

The las guns unfortunately don't mean much, the firing points were far more valuable. When the book was released the Chimera did not have additional durability, and regardless the 7E changes apply to all vehicles, not just the Chimera, so it's difficult to see the justification there (especially with things like Leman Russ tanks getting significantly cheaper). The survivability changes also don't change the primary kill method of HP stripping, and they're still *way* easier to kill than their previous incarnation was when it was released in 5E.


10pts doesn't sound like a lot...until you realize they're transporting 60-90pt units and you're fielding a lot of them. It adds up *very* quickly. My last mechanized list increased by 110pts alone there (3 mech platoons, 2 CCS"s). If you include increases to command squad costs, just the troops and HQ increased 160pts over the previous incarnation, and the only thing they gained were some better orders that they can't use within the transports anyway and lost the ability to use half the firepower of the command squads unless they disembark (and usually subsequently die).

Given the other vehicle changes since 5E, and and the incredible transports of some of the other factions, it's difficult to see where such changes were warranted or helpful.

Again, you can keep saying that it's Codex: Cadia but that doesn't make it true.

That showcase is tiny to the Cadian and catachan showcase and are there just because. You cant seriously tell me its proof that the codex was not made to fit Cadians and only Cadians.

Have you read the fluff for the conscript unit? Im fairly sure it mentions white shields... a Lot...

I know exactly what a Karskin is (or was as I should say). Where did you get the idea I thought otherwise?

Doctrines are great. One of the reasons 40k sucks worse than it used to is the huge lack of structure and "hard" choices leading to this crazyness we have now. Doctrines had an awesome structure that, while wasnt perfect, could have lead to so much more. It would be easy to cater it for all kinds of players.

Were besides on the internet does it say Cadians are generic Guardsmen? This is only found on internet wiki stuff and im pretty sure its an assumption. It is beyond belief that a galaxy of strong tradition where communities are a huge deal that they would not have a national uniform or policies. There is a reason mixing regiments is hard and dangerous, because they are all vastly unique. Im fairly sure this was encouraged by the Imperium to create soldier who where more determined to fight and so forth. Its also a big reason commissars are never from the same home world. To stop regiment tradition interfering with certain policies and to ensure regiment tradition didnt screw with other traditions and cause problems.

The new codex is pretty simply codex Cadia. Karskins dont exist anywhere anymore so I am pretty sure that no longer matters. Its all made with Cadia in mind. All the characters except 2 are Cadian. (the non cadians are all kicked). Majority of art, models and so forth are cadian. O

I dont see why you are defending it. You like Cadians, you should be happy to have a codex that suits your force without punishing it.

Just like the Cadian models, this codex is bland and uninspired. Which is why I hate it. No flavour, no decent back story and no love for non Cadians.

Thats just my opinion though. Maybe I have nostalgia? Maybe I am just struggling to keep up with all these changes im not happy with? Or maybe im just jealious that my Imperial Guard forces dont get much attention? Who knows. But it still pains me.

It doesn't suit a full Cadian force though. It's a generic IG force with options to make it so that anyone can make anything they want.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It doesn't suit a full Cadian force though. It's a generic IG force with options to make it so that anyone can make anything they want.

What about it doesnt suit a Cadian Force?

You know Mordians and Praetorians used to be rewarded for fighting in ranks? You know Chem Troops once had working drug inhalers? The list goes on.

What now? Now you fight like Cadians or you suffer horrid losses for no reason. My men fight in ranks but get punished simply because GW wants me to buy Cadians instead.

It is Codex Cadia and simply saying its not does not change that.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It doesn't suit a full Cadian force though. It's a generic IG force with options to make it so that anyone can make anything they want.

Which if you read the fluff it states that many other IG Regiments copy the Cadians in regards to equipment and tactics which would make this Codex Cadia. Again not trying to burst your bubble but the units in the codex can easily and effectively represent any and all of the specialist units that Cadia has, just with different titles. Cadians do not deserve a supplement book when compared to the other famous regiments as they have a much more specialized look and fuff then the Cadians do.

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It doesn't suit a full Cadian force though. It's a generic IG force with options to make it so that anyone can make anything they want.

Which if you read the fluff it states that many other IG Regiments copy the Cadians in regards to equipment and tactics which would make this Codex Cadia. Again not trying to burst your bubble but the units in the codex can easily and effectively represent any and all of the specialist units that Cadia has, just with different titles. Cadians do not deserve a supplement book when compared to the other famous regiments as they have a much more specialized look and fuff then the Cadians do.

I have never seen this fluff in a GW book before. Where does it say this?

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It doesn't suit a full Cadian force though. It's a generic IG force with options to make it so that anyone can make anything they want.

Which if you read the fluff it states that many other IG Regiments copy the Cadians in regards to equipment and tactics which would make this Codex Cadia.

Then by that logic, any supplement for Elysians make it the same thing for the various Drop Troop regiments.

Again not trying to burst your bubble but the units in the codex can easily and effectively represent any and all of the specialist units that Cadia has, just with different titles.

Except it can't.
Kasrkin aren't Scions. They're Hardened Veterans with Carapace Armor and Hellguns.
Cadian Shock Troops aren't Infantry Squads with the Sergeants waving swords and pistols. Everyone carries a rifle. Everyone fires.

Cadians do not deserve a supplement book when compared to the other famous regiments as they have a much more specialized look and fuff then the Cadians do.

They deserve it as much as the Tanith or the Tallarn or the Elysians. Just because you think they do not deserve one really does not mean that everyone agrees with you. I could come up with dozens of things that would make a Cadian supplement a fantastic thing--especially if you were to have it staged during the 13th Black Crusade and give Echoes of War/Altar of War missions surrounding that conflict.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:

20% sounds like a lot, but we are talking about 10 points here. They are more durable, and did lose three fire points, but gained two wracks of las gun that can fire at different targets from the vehicle and the models inside.

The las guns unfortunately don't mean much, the firing points were far more valuable. When the book was released the Chimera did not have additional durability, and regardless the 7E changes apply to all vehicles, not just the Chimera, so it's difficult to see the justification there (especially with things like Leman Russ tanks getting significantly cheaper). The survivability changes also don't change the primary kill method of HP stripping, and they're still *way* easier to kill than their previous incarnation was when it was released in 5E.

Having the additional fire points didn't make sense since the additional shooters were intended to represent the lasgun arrays. 65 points for the model as presented isn't really that bad. AV12, good turret weapon, heavy bolted, two shooters from the fire point, two sets of three lasguns. Not great, but additional shots.

10pts doesn't sound like a lot...until you realize they're transporting 60-90pt units and you're fielding a lot of them. It adds up *very* quickly. My last mechanized list increased by 110pts alone there (3 mech platoons, 2 CCS"s). If you include increases to command squad costs, just the troops and HQ increased 160pts over the previous incarnation, and the only thing they gained were some better orders that they can't use within the transports anyway and lost the ability to use half the firepower of the command squads unless they disembark (and usually subsequently die).

I have 6 chimera. If 60 points is going to break my army list, I am playing a pretty razor thin environment. Combined with the reduction in cost for many of the models being transported, it amount to pretty much nothing.

Given the other vehicle changes since 5E, and and the incredible transports of some of the other factions, it's difficult to see where such changes were warranted or helpful.

What incredible transports, wave serpents? Yeah, I would love to have wave serpents. They are also what, twice the price of a chimera? Am I forgetting any other transports that are significantly better than a chimera without being nearly twice their price?

 Swastakowey wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It doesn't suit a full Cadian force though. It's a generic IG force with options to make it so that anyone can make anything they want.

Which if you read the fluff it states that many other IG Regiments copy the Cadians in regards to equipment and tactics which would make this Codex Cadia. Again not trying to burst your bubble but the units in the codex can easily and effectively represent any and all of the specialist units that Cadia has, just with different titles. Cadians do not deserve a supplement book when compared to the other famous regiments as they have a much more specialized look and fuff then the Cadians do.

I have never seen this fluff in a GW book before. Where does it say this?

Just read through the fluff portion of the book and think I may have gotten that from either the old book or some other source... . However if you want a good example look at the specialist regiments page on 18 and 19, both the Cadians and the Catachans get long and detailed summaries while the other Regiments just get brief descriptions, pretty big indication that the book was meant for the Cadians as well as the Catachans. The difference being that the Catachans are a much more unique force then the Cadians in regards to their fighting style and look.

And Kanluwen you just proved my point:

-Kasrkin- Hardened Veterans with Carapace Armor and Hellguns,
-Scions: Veterans with Carapace Armor and Hot Shot Lasgun

There is not enough difference to warrant them a special codex (the Hellgun has the SAME EXACT Stats as a Hot shot Lasgun). And you cannot say that EVERY other IG regiment carries Swords and Pistols. That is a rule element of the game that does not carry over or coincide with the fluff, multiple regiments (my Elysians included) I arm them with anything but a sword and pistol whenever it is possible.

And that's fine you can think that if you want, but again you are running into the problem that Cadians because of how GW has handled the IG are basically the "generic" Guardsmen in both terms of fluff and modeling. And you don't have to agree with me that's fine, but units that are much more specialized (Drop Troops, Jungle Fighters, Desert Raiders, Waves of Infantry, Urban Specialists, Old Fashioned ranks and lasgun volleys) are much different then the Cadians and would be a much better Supplement then Codex Cadia 2.0. I can respect your backing your Regiment but another Cadian book is not the answer.

 gmaleron wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It doesn't suit a full Cadian force though. It's a generic IG force with options to make it so that anyone can make anything they want.

Which if you read the fluff it states that many other IG Regiments copy the Cadians in regards to equipment and tactics which would make this Codex Cadia. Again not trying to burst your bubble but the units in the codex can easily and effectively represent any and all of the specialist units that Cadia has, just with different titles. Cadians do not deserve a supplement book when compared to the other famous regiments as they have a much more specialized look and fuff then the Cadians do.

I have never seen this fluff in a GW book before. Where does it say this?

Just read through the fluff portion of the book and think I may have gotten that from either the old book or some other source... . However if you want a good example look at the specialist regiments page on 18 and 19, both the Cadians and the Catachans get long and detailed summaries while the other Regiments just get brief descriptions, pretty big indication that the book was meant for the Cadians as well as the Catachans. The difference being that the Catachans are a much more unique force then the Cadians in regards to their fighting style and look.

I have only seen that on the internet. Im fairly sure its made up haha. Players are so subject to Cadians that they just assume that they are the standard regiment... I think

Yea I tend to call it Codex Cadia with some Catachan sprinkled in.

 PhillyT wrote:


Having the additional fire points didn't make sense since the additional shooters were intended to represent the lasgun arrays.

If you want to get into the strict realism, the lasgun arrays probably make more sense, but are much more fiddly, and it's not like the 5 firing points was much of a stretch.

65 points for the model as presented isn't really that bad.

It's certainly nothing to write home about either. Ultimately, it's a reaction to a perceived problem nearly 2 editions too late.

AV12, good turret weapon, heavy bolted, two shooters from the fire point, two sets of three lasguns. Not great, but additional shots.

In an environment where AV12 is no longer particularly hardy, and hasn't been for years, without major survivability wargear.

I have 6 chimera. If 60 points is going to break my army list, I am playing a pretty razor thin environment.

60pts is another infantry squad or another tank or equipped multiple squads with carapace armor. It's enough to mean you now have to drop a unit, and your remaining units are less effective than they were before.

Combined with the reduction in cost for many of the models being transported, it amount to pretty much nothing.

What units being transported got cheaper? Only Veterans. Infantry squads stayed identical, command squads went up in price 20-33%.

What incredible transports, wave serpents? Yeah, I would love to have wave serpents. They are also what, twice the price of a chimera?

And it could be argued deliver much more than twice the value. Either way, nobody else's transport's have seen major price increases.

 Swastakowey wrote:

I have only seen that on the internet. Im fairly sure its made up haha. Players are so subject to Cadians that they just assume that they are the standard regiment... I think

Then I question if you actually own the Doctrines book.

Codex: Imperial Guard Doctrines Edition page 58 wrote:Cadia has always been a fortress world, charged with guarding the entrance to the Eye of Terror. Its population are all destined for a military life; the birth rate and recruitment rate are synonymous. Cadian Regiments are highly disciplined, make excellent shots, and use elite shock troops to lead their attacks. Such is the reputation of the Cadian Shock Troops that many other regiments mimic their appearance, although their doctrines may differ.

It did not make it into the following book, but it was in the White Dwarf for the release.

gmaleron wrote:-Kasrkin- Hardened Veterans with Carapace Armor and Hellguns,
-Scions: Veterans with Carapace Armor and Hot Shot Lasgun
There is not enough difference to warrant them a special codex (the Hellgun has the SAME EXACT Stats as a Hot shot Lasgun).

One of those comes with Infiltration/Deep Strike as an option.

One of those would not. One of those is also a Troops choice and not an Elite. Thanks for proving my point.

And you cannot say that EVERY other IG regiment carries Swords and Pistols. That is a rule element of the game that does not carry over or coincide with the fluff, multiple regiments (my Elysians included) I arm them with anything but a sword and pistol whenever it is possible.

The difference being that if you use your Elysian lists, you are not required to give your Sergeants, Lieutenants, or Captains pistols/CCWs.

And that's fine you can think that if you want, but again you are running into the problem that Cadians because of how GW has handled the IG are basically the "generic" Guardsmen in both terms of fluff and modeling. And you don't have to agree with me that's fine, but units that are much more specialized (Drop Troops, Jungle Fighters, Desert Raiders, Waves of Infantry, Urban Specialists, Old Fashioned ranks and lasgun volleys) are much different then the Cadians and would be a much better Supplement then Codex Cadia 2.0.

Drop Troops would be a terrible supplement. Why? Because Forge World has already done it so, so, so much better than GW ever would.
Jungle Fighters had a Codex at one point. It was a joke.
"Waves of Infantry" is no different than C: Astra Militarum.
"Urban Specialists" is also a joke. It's called Cities of Death. Anyone can be "Urban Specialists" to put it politely.
"Old fashioned ranks and lasgun volleys" is, again, no different than C: Astra Militarum.
The only one that really could feasibly be done is Desert Raiders--but even then, they could be done easily enough like the Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders where they do an in-game effect at the start of the game.

I can respect your backing your Regiment but another Cadian book is not the answer.

It has nothing to do with "backing my regiment". I just find the idea that some Regiments are more deserving than others ridiculous. If effort is put into it, you could have a great supplement out of damn near anything.

The fact that Sentinels of Terra, Black Legion, and Clan Raaukan exist is testament to that.

Many regiments. So its not standard or generic. Just many regiments share the gear. But fair enough, you found it. I never knew that existed.

But just a tip, if you are gonna call people out on fluff, please get your commissar facts right first.


I personally think, and many would agree, that a Cadian Supplement will not only be horridly wasteful of potential, but also hurt the lack of variety issue guard have more than it would provide more options. Cadians are already incredibly highly presented in the current and last codex more than any other. Why would anybody want more?

Playing Cadia and catahcan is already rewarded greatly in the current codex while many others are punished for how they play. Do you know how fun it is to remove huge amounts of your men because they are lined up? Its not very fun.

The codex is codex cadia. If GW made a new plastic regiment, I am 99% certain they will be featured as much as Cadia and Catachan currently are featured. Thats why the codex is the way it is. From a rules standpoint its not that bad, but everything else is pretty terrible.

I would come very close to quitting GW entirely if they dare release Cadia 2.0 as a supplement. To much wasted potential as it is.

Read "Cadian Blood" or "The 13th Black Crusade" sourcebook.

Both say that Commissars are "rare and insulting" for Cadian Regiments. If they're going to have Commissars, they generally have Cadian Commissars.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Read "Cadian Blood" or "The 13th Black Crusade" sourcebook.

Both say that Commissars are "rare and insulting" for Cadian Regiments. If they're going to have Commissars, they generally have Cadian Commissars.

Is that a novel? If its a novel i tend to ignore those and use the Codex and in the codex it says Commissars never share the same homeworld. Nor do they care how the regiment feels about them.

"Cadian Blood" is a novel, "The 13th Black Crusade" sourcebook is exactly what it sounds like.

It was published with The 13th Black Crusade worldwide event.