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Kriswall is correct on all points.

I can't really add more content. Big Mek and Meks are one unit. The Big Mek can leave this unit.

Stating that the Meks must maintain coherency to the Big Mek because they can't leave the Big Mek unit is nonsense. They are, themselves, the Big Mek unit for all rules purposes, as stated in Mekaniaks, as they were assigned to the Big Mek unit. It would be like arguing that an IC can't leave a regular unit because the regular models in the unit cannot leave the unit so they must maintain coherency with the IC despite his special permission to leave coherency.

When the Big Mek leaves the unit, you're not left with a unit of Meks, you're left with a Big Mek unit without its Big Mek.

As an aside, suppose instead of leaving the unit, the Big Mek is killed? Are the two remaining Meks suddenly a Mek unit? Remember, they are not independent characters...

EDIT1: Added more than the first line
EDIT2: typos

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Can you provide any sort of rule saying the Big Mek can't leave the unit? He's in A unit. He has general permission as an IC to leave A unit. Please provide a rules quote as I've done.

Because, for the life of me, I can't find any reason why he wouldn't be able to leave the unit.

He tries to leave the Big Mek unit, this creates a Big Mek unit. Which he's leaving. Which creates one. But he's leaving that. Well then let's make one. BUT HE'S LEAVING IT. I KNOW THAT, SO LET'S CREATE THAT UNIT FOR HIM.

why can't two Big Mek units exist simultaneously?

So it would read: He tries to leave the first Big Mek unit, which creates a Big Mek unit. So now there are two Big Mek units. Hooray!

Except there is not a second Big Mek unit. There is a Big Mek unit composed of two Meks, and a Big Mek model who is not part of a unit (since he left his own unit). This provides some protection as you cannot target the Big Mek (since you can only target units). On the down side he cannot do anything except stand there, since you nominate units to move, and he is not in a unit.

The Big Mek would become a unit as soon as he leaves his old unit. The IC rules explicitly state that when an IC is alone, it becomes its own unit (so, in this case, a new unit is created that did not formerly exist).

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Can you provide any sort of rule saying the Big Mek can't leave the unit? He's in A unit. He has general permission as an IC to leave A unit. Please provide a rules quote as I've done.

Because, for the life of me, I can't find any reason why he wouldn't be able to leave the unit.

He tries to leave the Big Mek unit, this creates a Big Mek unit. Which he's leaving. Which creates one. But he's leaving that. Well then let's make one. BUT HE'S LEAVING IT. I KNOW THAT, SO LET'S CREATE THAT UNIT FOR HIM.

why can't two Big Mek units exist simultaneously?

So it would read: He tries to leave the first Big Mek unit, which creates a Big Mek unit. So now there are two Big Mek units. Hooray!

Except there is not a second Big Mek unit. There is a Big Mek unit composed of two Meks, and a Big Mek model who is not part of a unit (since he left his own unit). This provides some protection as you cannot target the Big Mek (since you can only target units). On the down side he cannot do anything except stand there, since you nominate units to move, and he is not in a unit.

The Big Mek would become a unit as soon as he leaves his old unit. The IC rules explicitly state that when an IC is alone, it becomes its own unit (so, in this case, a new unit is created that did not formerly exist).

And where are you getting permission to create a new unit from?
In every case where a new unit is created, the rules give specific permission to create a new unit within the game itself. Where is your permission to create a new Big Mek unit?

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Can you provide any sort of rule saying the Big Mek can't leave the unit? He's in A unit. He has general permission as an IC to leave A unit. Please provide a rules quote as I've done.

Because, for the life of me, I can't find any reason why he wouldn't be able to leave the unit.

He tries to leave the Big Mek unit, this creates a Big Mek unit. Which he's leaving. Which creates one. But he's leaving that. Well then let's make one. BUT HE'S LEAVING IT. I KNOW THAT, SO LET'S CREATE THAT UNIT FOR HIM.

why can't two Big Mek units exist simultaneously?

So it would read: He tries to leave the first Big Mek unit, which creates a Big Mek unit. So now there are two Big Mek units. Hooray!

Except there is not a second Big Mek unit. There is a Big Mek unit composed of two Meks, and a Big Mek model who is not part of a unit (since he left his own unit). This provides some protection as you cannot target the Big Mek (since you can only target units). On the down side he cannot do anything except stand there, since you nominate units to move, and he is not in a unit.

The Big Mek would become a unit as soon as he leaves his old unit. The IC rules explicitly state that when an IC is alone, it becomes its own unit (so, in this case, a new unit is created that did not formerly exist).

And where are you getting permission to create a new unit from?
In every case where a new unit is created, the rules give specific permission to create a new unit within the game itself. Where is your permission to create a new Big Mek unit?

The permission is in the IC rules. What do you think happens when an IC leaves a unit? If you don't think the Big Mek can leave, CITE A RULE. If you can't cite a rule, you are wrong and it's HYWPI.


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To clarify, the permission to leave a unit doesn't care what kind of unit it is. The rules don't care that you are effectively making a second Big Mek Unit.

Kriswall, what I think happens is the IC reverts to being "IC unit". In the case of a Big Mek and a squad of Boyz, he leaves the boyz unit and reverts to the Big Mek unit. In the situation under discussion, he leaves the Big Mek unit and somehow becomes a Big Mek unit. Which since they were assigned to it, the Meks are part of.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but do you have literally ANY rules quotes to back up your position? Do you have any rules quotes that add a restriction preventing an IC from leaving a unit that he was the founding member of?

From a debate standpoint, what you think is less compelling than what you can prove or demonstrate through rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to clarify, when the Big Mek leaves, he "creates" a Big Mek Unit. The Meks WERE NOT ASSIGNED to this new Unit. They were assigned to the old Unit, of which they are still a part.

They WERE NOT ASSIGNED to the Big Mek. They were assigned to the Unit of which he was a part. It seems like you think they were assigned to the Big Mek Model and not the Big Mek Unit.

Indeed.

As I have been saying, there are now two Big Mek units, one of which is made of of two Meks and the other of which is made up of a Big Mek IC, formed when the IC leaves the squad, which is always what happens when an IC leaves his/her squad.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Indeed.

As I have been saying, there are now two Big Mek units, one of which is made of of two Meks and the other of which is made up of a Big Mek IC, formed when the IC leaves the squad, which is always what happens when an IC leaves his/her squad.

Please cite a rule that allows a model to form a new unit when leaving a unit. Or even revert to being its original unit.

I hadn't reviewed the IC rules and thought there was something about "reverting back to its original unit" or something like that. All the rules say is that an IC can leave a unit but does not tell us what that means unit-wise. Other than being not part of said unit.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Indeed.

As I have been saying, there are now two Big Mek units, one of which is made of of two Meks and the other of which is made up of a Big Mek IC, formed when the IC leaves the squad, which is always what happens when an IC leaves his/her squad.

Please cite a rule that allows a model to form a new unit when leaving a unit. Or even revert to being its original unit.

I hadn't reviewed the IC rules and thought there was something about "reverting back to its original unit" or something like that. All the rules say is that an IC can leave a unit but does not tell us what that means unit-wise. Other than being not part of said unit.

Honestly, you're flogging a dead horse here. An IC can clearly leave any unit he is with, at which point you have the IC and the other unit on the board as separate entities. Just because the meks can't voluntarily leave the Big Mek, doesn't invalidate the BRB clear statement that the Big Mek can voluntarily leave the Meks.

You've been given stacks of rule quotes by several people backing up this position, and you seem to be tying yourself in semantics of unit names. The relevant rules for these have also been discussed, and it is clear that they do not invalidate or change the IC rules either, which are at the core of this discussion.

 goblinzz wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Indeed.

As I have been saying, there are now two Big Mek units, one of which is made of of two Meks and the other of which is made up of a Big Mek IC, formed when the IC leaves the squad, which is always what happens when an IC leaves his/her squad.

Please cite a rule that allows a model to form a new unit when leaving a unit. Or even revert to being its original unit.

I hadn't reviewed the IC rules and thought there was something about "reverting back to its original unit" or something like that. All the rules say is that an IC can leave a unit but does not tell us what that means unit-wise. Other than being not part of said unit.

Honestly, you're flogging a dead horse here. An IC can clearly leave any unit he is with, at which point you have the IC and the other unit on the board as separate entities. Just because the meks can't voluntarily leave the Big Mek, doesn't invalidate the BRB clear statement that the Big Mek can voluntarily leave the Meks.

And when the IC leaves the unit what unit is he part of? In the scenario posted he is trying to leave the unit composed of himself.

You've been given stacks of rule quotes by several people backing up this position, and you seem to be tying yourself in semantics of unit names. The relevant rules for these have also been discussed, and it is clear that they do not invalidate or change the IC rules either, which are at the core of this discussion.

I've been quoted a rule that says an IC can leave a unit. I've yet to be shown a rule that allows you to form a brand new unit when an IC leaves.

Here is the issue. You have a unit called "Big Mek". The Big Mek unit consists of "1 Big Mek". You assign 2 Meks to that unit. According to one person it is now a unit of Meks with an attached IC (the Big Mek). The Big Mek goes to leave the unit (which per the IC rules is legal, I've never said an IC could not leave a unit). The other side is claiming that you now have 2 units named "Big Mek" one composed of "1 Big Mek" and the other composed of "2 Meks". Nowhere have they cited a rule claiming that when an IC leaves a unit it can form a new unit. All I'm asking for is citation. I freely admit that there is a chance I'm wrong, but I'v yet to see any evidence to support it.

 Happyjew wrote:

 goblinzz wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Indeed.

As I have been saying, there are now two Big Mek units, one of which is made of of two Meks and the other of which is made up of a Big Mek IC, formed when the IC leaves the squad, which is always what happens when an IC leaves his/her squad.

Please cite a rule that allows a model to form a new unit when leaving a unit. Or even revert to being its original unit.

I hadn't reviewed the IC rules and thought there was something about "reverting back to its original unit" or something like that. All the rules say is that an IC can leave a unit but does not tell us what that means unit-wise. Other than being not part of said unit.

Honestly, you're flogging a dead horse here. An IC can clearly leave any unit he is with, at which point you have the IC and the other unit on the board as separate entities. Just because the meks can't voluntarily leave the Big Mek, doesn't invalidate the BRB clear statement that the Big Mek can voluntarily leave the Meks.

And when the IC leaves the unit what unit is he part of? In the scenario posted he is trying to leave the unit composed of himself.

You've been given stacks of rule quotes by several people backing up this position, and you seem to be tying yourself in semantics of unit names. The relevant rules for these have also been discussed, and it is clear that they do not invalidate or change the IC rules either, which are at the core of this discussion.

I've been quoted a rule that says an IC can leave a unit. I've yet to be shown a rule that allows you to form a brand new unit when an IC leaves.

Here is the issue. You have a unit called "Big Mek". The Big Mek unit consists of "1 Big Mek". You assign 2 Meks to that unit. According to one person it is now a unit of Meks with an attached IC (the Big Mek). The Big Mek goes to leave the unit (which per the IC rules is legal, I've never said an IC could not leave a unit). The other side is claiming that you now have 2 units named "Big Mek" one composed of "1 Big Mek" and the other composed of "2 Meks". Nowhere have they cited a rule claiming that when an IC leaves a unit it can form a new unit. All I'm asking for is citation. I freely admit that there is a chance I'm wrong, but I'v yet to see any evidence to support it.

It's that last statement where I think the discussion has got side tracked into poorly phrased discussions. You have a unit (I really don't care what you want to call it) composed of 1 Big Mek, and two Meks. The Big Mek buggers off to beat the hell out of a landraider, leaving the two Meks to presumably stand there jeering and throwing small squigs. You now have two units, one composed of a Big Mek, and the other composed of two Meks. Whatever you want to call those two units is frankly semantics and will not change the fact that it's a legal and reasonable move.

Rulebook Ebook page 786:

"An Independent Character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave in any other phase - once shots are fired or charges are declared, it's too late to join in or duck out!

...

If all other models in the unit are killed, the independent character again becomes a unit of one model."

Emphasis mine.

So it says that they can leave, there's your permission. It doesn't say outright that they become a unit of one, but the use of again in the later statement implies that they're a unit of one at other times as well.

If an independent character leaves a unit, what does it become? By saying 'it can't form a new unit' then what does an IC do any time it leaves a unit by itself?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Rulebook Ebook page 786:

"An Independent Character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave in any other phase - once shots are fired or charges are declared, it's too late to join in or duck out!

...

If all other models in the unit are killed, the independent character again becomes a unit of one model."

Emphasis mine.

So it says that they can leave, there's your permission. It doesn't say outright that they become a unit of one, but the use of again in the later statement implies that they're a unit of one at other times as well.

If an independent character leaves a unit, what does it become? By saying 'it can't form a new unit' then what does an IC do any time it leaves a unit by itself?

Then logically when it leaves a unit it reverts back to its original unit. In this case a unit consisting of 1 Big Mek, and 2 Meks.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Rulebook Ebook page 786:

"An Independent Character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave in any other phase - once shots are fired or charges are declared, it's too late to join in or duck out!

...

If all other models in the unit are killed, the independent character again becomes a unit of one model."

Emphasis mine.

So it says that they can leave, there's your permission. It doesn't say outright that they become a unit of one, but the use of again in the later statement implies that they're a unit of one at other times as well.

If an independent character leaves a unit, what does it become? By saying 'it can't form a new unit' then what does an IC do any time it leaves a unit by itself?

Then logically when it leaves a unit it reverts back to its original unit. In this case a unit consisting of 1 Big Mek, and 2 Meks.

Where is the permission for an IC deployed with a unit to "revert back" to anything? If my librarian leaves the tac squad he drop podded with, does he revert to being in the tac squad he was drop-podded with? It was his "original unit"

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Rulebook Ebook page 786:

"An Independent Character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave in any other phase - once shots are fired or charges are declared, it's too late to join in or duck out!

...

If all other models in the unit are killed, the independent character again becomes a unit of one model."

Emphasis mine.

So it says that they can leave, there's your permission. It doesn't say outright that they become a unit of one, but the use of again in the later statement implies that they're a unit of one at other times as well.

If an independent character leaves a unit, what does it become? By saying 'it can't form a new unit' then what does an IC do any time it leaves a unit by itself?

Then logically when it leaves a unit it reverts back to its original unit. In this case a unit consisting of 1 Big Mek, and 2 Meks.

Where is the permission for an IC deployed with a unit to "revert back" to anything? If my librarian leaves the tac squad he drop podded with, does he revert to being in the tac squad he was drop-podded with? It was his "original unit"

Which is something I pointed out earlier in the thread. There is no permission for an IC to revert back to his own unit nor form a new unit when he leaves the unit he was part of. Most people (myself as well) assume that when an IC leaves a unit he goes back to being a member of "the IC unit" (whatever it may be), but that is not actually supported by the rules.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Rulebook Ebook page 786:

"An Independent Character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave in any other phase - once shots are fired or charges are declared, it's too late to join in or duck out!

...

If all other models in the unit are killed, the independent character again becomes a unit of one model."

Emphasis mine.

So it says that they can leave, there's your permission. It doesn't say outright that they become a unit of one, but the use of again in the later statement implies that they're a unit of one at other times as well.

If an independent character leaves a unit, what does it become? By saying 'it can't form a new unit' then what does an IC do any time it leaves a unit by itself?

Then logically when it leaves a unit it reverts back to its original unit. In this case a unit consisting of 1 Big Mek, and 2 Meks.

Where is the permission for an IC deployed with a unit to "revert back" to anything? If my librarian leaves the tac squad he drop podded with, does he revert to being in the tac squad he was drop-podded with? It was his "original unit"

This.

If an IC is with a squad, any squad, and then leaves it, he becomes a unit by himself. It's that simple.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Rulebook Ebook page 786:

"An Independent Character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave in any other phase - once shots are fired or charges are declared, it's too late to join in or duck out!

...

If all other models in the unit are killed, the independent character again becomes a unit of one model."

Emphasis mine.

So it says that they can leave, there's your permission. It doesn't say outright that they become a unit of one, but the use of again in the later statement implies that they're a unit of one at other times as well.

If an independent character leaves a unit, what does it become? By saying 'it can't form a new unit' then what does an IC do any time it leaves a unit by itself?

Then logically when it leaves a unit it reverts back to its original unit. In this case a unit consisting of 1 Big Mek, and 2 Meks.

Where is the permission for an IC deployed with a unit to "revert back" to anything? If my librarian leaves the tac squad he drop podded with, does he revert to being in the tac squad he was drop-podded with? It was his "original unit"

Which is something I pointed out earlier in the thread. There is no permission for an IC to revert back to his own unit nor form a new unit when he leaves the unit he was part of. Most people (myself as well) assume that when an IC leaves a unit he goes back to being a member of "the IC unit" (whatever it may be), but that is not actually supported by the rules.

Right. There are no rule governing what any IC becomes when any IC leaves a unit. Therefore, we can conclude:

1) RAW is broken for every IC in the game
2) The Big Mek leaving a Unit of Meks is no different than any IC leaving any unit, as far as rules coverage is concerned.
3) Therefore, the Big Mek leaving a unit of Meks should be treated by players no differently than a Librarian leaving a unit of Tactical Marines, whatever the method they agree on to overcome the problem in Premise 1.

Since most players overcome the problem by simply assuming the IC is now a unit of 1 (which I think is not unreasonable), then that should be applied in all cases whenever any IC (Big Mek included) leaves a unit.

I think all of this can be solved by reading the Mek's rules again. They are forced to be assigned to an Infantry or Artillery unit at the beginning of the game, but they are not allowed to leave the unit they are attached too. They are not considered Independent Characters, just Characters.

Rules as Written, this would mean that the Meks, of course, can not leave a unit they have been attached to by their own volition.

If the aftermentioned Big Mek were to be assigned these Meks at the beginning of the game, since he qualifies to have them join, the two Meks and the Big Mek are now a unit. The Big Mek has the capability to leave a unit and move into another one if he chooses too, or to go off on his own should he so desire. This does not break the rules of the Meks, as they have not chosen to leave the unit they were assigned too, but the Big Mek did.

While it seems like a tomato tomãto type of situation, it in fact does matter.

When the Big Mek leaves the Meks, they become a unit of 2 Meks, something they couldn't accomplish on their own, an exception only made possible by joining an IC at the start of the game. I think they would have had to put even more specific wording for them to prevent them from ever being disjointed from the unit they join.

But this all seems a bit of a moot point. It's such a situational argument. I honestly have no idea why anyone would assign 2 meks to an IC just to have the IC break away. Leaving what is essentially 2 Boyz out in the open or on an Objective seems hardly ideal in any situation. Maybe on the bottom of turn 5 or something of the like, having the IC move off to help someone close by while the two Meks hold the fort? But still...waste of Meks.

Melevolence wrote:
I think all of this can be solved by reading the Mek's rules again. They are forced to be assigned to an Infantry or Artillery unit at the beginning of the game, but they are not allowed to leave the unit they are attached too. They are not considered Independent Characters, just Characters.

Rules as Written, this would mean that the Meks, of course, can not leave a unit they have been attached to by their own volition.

If the aftermentioned Big Mek were to be assigned these Meks at the beginning of the game, since he qualifies to have them join, the two Meks and the Big Mek are now a unit. The Big Mek has the capability to leave a unit and move into another one if he chooses too, or to go off on his own should he so desire. This does not break the rules of the Meks, as they have not chosen to leave the unit they were assigned too, but the Big Mek did.

While it seems like a tomato tomãto type of situation, it in fact does matter.

When the Big Mek leaves the Meks, they become a unit of 2 Meks, something they couldn't accomplish on their own, an exception only made possible by joining an IC at the start of the game. I think they would have had to put even more specific wording for them to prevent them from ever being disjointed from the unit they join.

But this all seems a bit of a moot point. It's such a situational argument. I honestly have no idea why anyone would assign 2 meks to an IC just to have the IC break away. Leaving what is essentially 2 Boyz out in the open or on an Objective seems hardly ideal in any situation. Maybe on the bottom of turn 5 or something of the like, having the IC move off to help someone close by while the two Meks hold the fort? But still...waste of Meks.

You are exactly correct.

The Mekaniaks rule tells you how to have Meks become a part of another unit.

The IC rule tells you how to have an IC leave a unit that he is a part of.

There is a reason the side saying the Big Mek can't leave won't post the rule showing that the IC rule is being restricted... it's not in the rules. It's how they would play it, but not RaW.

Indeed. RAW, the IC rules are broken. However, if we go with the most reasonable interpretation of the normal IC rules, then we end up with the Big Mek being able to leave the unit of two Meks.

I hate to stir this up again... when playing this I have had the big mek and two meks in a morkanaut, and have been allowed by my friends to have the big mek leave the unit and go and join another (using the IC rule)... HOWEVER... I have another question.

I think this is really squeaking the rules, but the rule says "after the warlord trait... if the Mek is not already part of a unit, he must join on infantry or artillery unit"...

Soooo, doesn't that mean that I can allocate the mek to ANY unit BEFORE the warlord traits are rolled, i.e. it is a rule that makes sure that the mek is not unattached,,, so in theory, I could just allocate the mek to any unit? Or is it that, because he is not an IC, he HAS to be a part of an infantry unit. I notice that some units (like the burna boyz) can upgrade a model to a mek....

Thoughts?

perlot wrote:
I hate to stir this up again... when playing this I have had the big mek and two meks in a morkanaut, and have been allowed by my friends to have the big mek leave the unit and go and join another (using the IC rule)... HOWEVER... I have another question.

I think this is really squeaking the rules, but the rule says "after the warlord trait... if the Mek is not already part of a unit, he must join on infantry or artillery unit"...

Soooo, doesn't that mean that I can allocate the mek to ANY unit BEFORE the warlord traits are rolled, i.e. it is a rule that makes sure that the mek is not unattached,,, so in theory, I could just allocate the mek to any unit? Or is it that, because he is not an IC, he HAS to be a part of an infantry unit. I notice that some units (like the burna boyz) can upgrade a model to a mek....

Thoughts?

You can assign him to any infantry or artillery unit. You could not, for example, assign a Mek to a Biker unit. What exactly are you trying to do? The Mek has to be assigned to an infantry or artillery unit because this is what the rules tell you to do. It has nothing to do with the fact that he's not an IC. Also, the Burna Boyz Mek upgrade is an entirely different situation and has nothing to do with the HQ Mek Unit Entry. If it helps, think of the two as "Burna Boyz Mek" and "HQ Mek".

Yeah, it would probably help if I said what I was trying to do...

What I want to do, basically is put 2 meks in a morkanaut to keep it moving.

I have a big mek, mad dok and a weirdboy.. so I have enough hq to have 2 "free" meks... but I want to <cough> "join" them to the morkanuat... and I think that's not possible?

Yeah that is not possible, because morkanaut is not an infantry or artillery unit.

perlot wrote:
Yeah, it would probably help if I said what I was trying to do...

What I want to do, basically is put 2 meks in a morkanaut to keep it moving.

I have a big mek, mad dok and a weirdboy.. so I have enough hq to have 2 "free" meks... but I want to <cough> "join" them to the morkanuat... and I think that's not possible?

You could join the two Meks to one of the ICs with all inside the Morkanaut and then have the IC disembark alone (as the IC rules allow him to do), thus leaving the two Meks in the Morkanaut. This achieves what you want, but does require the IC to get out on turn 1 and go find something else to do.

I'm afraid I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here, but...

Mekaniak rule makes no restrictions on what the mek joins, other than that it be either infantry or artillery.

a mek is an infantry unit.

so can't we just bypass all this by joining a mek to another mek? nothing says we can't...

this would also allow the meks to be deploying inside the gorkanaught.

Ah, now I can answer that... the mekaniak rule does say "but not another mek".... unfortunately...

Edit... I'm wrong.. actually that is just related to "you can't have another mek if you chose one as an HQ".

And the rule definitely says "any mek that is not ALREADY part of another unit must join an infantry or artillery unit if possible". So that suggests to me that you can take a unit and join it any other unit, and then carry on. Having said that, I can't cite a rule, but I don't think vehicles/transports really work like that do they? they are not a unit you can "join" (except with other like vehicles) as such are they? You are using them or not...so the mek is not "already part of a unit" if it is simply inside the morkanaut... it has to have other similar models with it in the "unit".

Right?

I'm talking against myself here, but rules is rules....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would say you are right some bloke... I could take a mek as an hq choice, then join another mek to it, as that mek would be picked based on one of the other HQ choices... but then I'd have to drop the big mek, weirdboy or mad dok as you can only have 3 in the foc..... hmmm.. toughie..

 some bloke wrote:
I'm afraid I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here, but...

Mekaniak rule makes no restrictions on what the mek joins, other than that it be either infantry or artillery.

a mek is an infantry unit.

so can't we just bypass all this by joining a mek to another mek? nothing says we can't...

this would also allow the meks to be deploying inside the gorkanaught.

How do you get the first Mek on the table for the second Mek to join?

 Kriswall wrote:

How do you get the first Mek on the table for the second Mek to join?

you don't have to, the joining takes place before deployment, immediately after warlord traits.

I'll have to review the rules when I get home. My feeling is that there is a sequencing element at play here. You would normally have to decide in which order to do things that would normally happen "simultaneously". If you are allowed to perform both Mek assignments at the same time, you could probably argue that they can join each other. This probably violates the intention (probable RaI) of the rule since the intention seems to be for each Mek to go off and join a group of Boyz of one sort or another. If you are required to resolve each assignment individually, the second Mek won't be around yet for the first to be assigned to.

I'll be curious to hear what people think until such time as I can review the rules myself.